Hi Jim,
Just coming back to 531 after about a year’s foray into some other things. I really enjoy full body training and was hoping to get your thoughts on this set up (adjusted you full body 531 to lifts I’ve had success with).
Day 1
Squat (deload weights) 3x 5-10
Bench Press 5/3/1
Power Snatch 5x3
Assistance
Day 2
Front Squat 3x5
Deadlift 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Assistance
Day 3
Squat 5/3/1
Incline Bench 3x5-10
Power Clean 5/3/1
Barbell Rows Rows 3x5-10
Chins between pressing sets, box jumps to warm up the squat. I’ll drop some assistance whenever necessary. Assistance will be high rep light work face pulls, pull aparts, curls, bodyweight dips, 1 or 2 of each depending on feel.
I would do any Olympic movement at the beginning of the workout. Then I would do the box jumps before front squatting. Let the explosive nature of the Olympic lifts warm you up for back squat days and the box jumps before front squat/deadlift.
I would also order day 2 as follows:
Box Jumps
Front Squat
Press
Deadlift
Assistance
Pressing before deadlift won’t affect your deadlift (and give your legs a bit of a break), but deadlifting before pressing has a greater potential to affect the second exercise.
Agree completely, actually should have taken the time to put the movements in order I was planning on doing them…which happens to be the order you suggested there except for the deadlift after the press. I find that deadlifting before I press allows me to lift heavier and has me feeling warm and tighter.
Whatever floats your boat my friend. If it doesn’t affect you to deadlift before press then rock on and pull away.
How’s your conditioning and lower back endurance?
You’re asking alot of both.
Did something similar and made basically no progress in hindsight for 6 months.
Partly because I wasn’t ready yet for such a program. Partly because I was on IF, trained fasted at 5 AM and didn’t eat until noon. Partly because I underate to loose weight.
My advice would be to start with the squats, presses and pulls and slowly rotating the rest in. And eat enough.
[quote]Willem85 wrote:
How’s your conditioning and lower back endurance?
You’re asking alot of both.
Did something similar and made basically no progress in hindsight for 6 months.
Partly because I wasn’t ready yet for such a program. Partly because I was on IF, trained fasted at 5 AM and didn’t eat until noon. Partly because I underate to loose weight.
My advice would be to start with the squats, presses and pulls and slowly rotating the rest in. And eat enough.[/quote]
I just finished Madcow 5x5 intermediate program and used a very similar set up and my back held up with 90+ percent of my old PR for 5’s so shouldn’t be an issue.
I have finally learned not to be in a perpetual dieting phase, to pay attention to my recovery and to just nut up and get quality work in. I can’t wait to use Jim’s principles again now that I’m not sabotaging my own training (words from Jim last year). I’ve put on 20 quality pounds by following his advice on diet and am ready to really dive into 531 and do it properly this time around. Oh yeah, and I’m starting light, heard this wise advice once or twice figure there must be something to it.
You’ve got way too much stuff going on. Pick 3 movements a day and that’s it. If you can’t make it happen with 3 movements, you don’t train very hard.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
You’ve got way too much stuff going on. Pick 3 movements a day and that’s it. If you can’t make it happen with 3 movements, you don’t train very hard. [/quote]
Thanks Jim, how about this with addition of box jumps, med ball throws for warm ups?
Day 1
Squat (deload weights) 3x 5-10
Bench Press 5/3/1
Barbell Rows 3x8-12 or Kroc Rows
Day 2
Front Squat 3x5
Deadlift 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Day 3
Power Clean 5/3/1
Squat 5/3/1
Incline Bench 3x8-12
Box jumps and other speed work should not be warm-ups. They are an essential part of training!
I was planning on using the box jumps in between warm up sets on the squat as you’ve mentioned in the past (really helps my working sets) with the throws in between pressing warm up sets. Is there a more beneficial way to implement these movements? Thanks for taking the time to steer me in the right direction here Jim, it’s much appreciated.
You are on the correct path (at least what I believe to be correct). Don’t add anything to the training then what you wrote down in last post. Nothing. Nada. Nothing. Do if for 3 weeks. Then:
Day 1
Squat - work up to TM for 1-3 reps.
Bench Press 5/3/1
Barbell Rows or DB Rows - 50-100 reps
Day 2
Front Squat - 3’sPRO
Deadlift - 3’s PRO
Press 5/3/1
Day 3
Power Clean - 3’s PRO
Squat 5/3/1
Incline Bench - 50 reps
Once again - no added exercises. No abs. No chins. NOTHING.
Then:
Day 1
Squat - same as above
Bench Press - 5’s PRO + joker singles
Barbell Rows or DB rows - 50-100 reps
Day 2
Front Squat 3’s PRO, joker singles
Deadlift 3’s PRO, joker singles
Press - 5’s PRO
Day 3
Power Clean - 3’s PRO, SSL - 3x3
Squat - 3’s Pro, FSL - 3x5
Incline Bench - 50 reps
Wow, thanks for the detailed response Jim, I’m looking forward to getting this going. Frankly I’m amazed you take the time to answer questions like these so often and with quality no bullshit information. I just bought Beyond from your site, keep up the great work, great to see somebody sticking to their principals and not contradicting themselves to make a buck. I don’t often buy training manuals etc because there’s just so much recycled junk out there, glad to support somebody who puts a good deal of effort into their own original work.
Remember the key to training is separating and only doing the movements necessary - not what is trending and popular. Personally I stick to the John Broz mentality - his training consists of only 6 basic movements. If he can get guys strong doing only 6 things, who am I to think I need more? So find your “6” (and no it doesn’t have to be six, the point is to think of critically of what you really need) and own them.
This doesn’t mean you don’t do important movements, this means you leave unimportant ones out. Lifters and athletes have a gas tank and its best to burn it out on necessary movements/exercises that mean something. Because EVERYTHING you do in the weight room burns gas. And unfortunately a lot of the protein drinks you mix give it off too.
Anyway, simplicity is good. But not for the sake of being simple. There is a difference.
Good luck. And thanks for the support.
How do you decide when to switch out the normal 5/3/1 for either a 3’s or 5’s progression?
I started doing militaries immediately following dead lifts 3 cycles ago and absolutely love it. The militaries feel significantly lighter than when I do them first. Maybe there’s something to the CNS theory - maybe it’s in my head, whatever…but it’s awesome. So much so that I am considering moving my bench to after my squats. Then I’d have nothing to do the rest of the week except drink beer:)
[quote]Rave2.0 wrote:
I started doing militaries immediately following dead lifts 3 cycles ago and absolutely love it. The militaries feel significantly lighter than when I do them first. Maybe there’s something to the CNS theory - maybe it’s in my head, whatever…but it’s awesome. So much so that I am considering moving my bench to after my squats. Then I’d have nothing to do the rest of the week except drink beer:)[/quote]
I think there’s something to it, ever since I started to bench after my squat I started hitting PR’s after being stagnant for the longest time. I do however steer clear of the bench after deadlifting because the lower back fatigue takes away from my ability to keep a tight arch. I find squatting prior to benching also helps me with my leg drive in the bench.
I think the anecdotal evidence speaks for itself, the squat is so awesome that it makes all other lifts more awesome. Pretty well every full body training template I’ve had any success with has started with some form of squat. You should give it a try for a training block, can’t see how it would hurt.
…except for the excessive extra beer drinking. That said if that beer is accompanied by a steak. Now you’ve got me thinking.