[quote]G87 wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
i also have tried my hand at ‘cutting up’
it’s fucking hard. i think maybe i got a tad leaner than i did in this picture, and that was about it. haven’t tried it since.
IMO, it is MUCH harder to get ripped and cut up, than it is to get big and strong.
Why are you shiny?[/quote]
b/c of all the lube…
hahaha, had just gotten done with a run.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:
its the same concept as why powerlifters have such big tris. they rarely do direct tri work, or at the very least, their direct tri work is significantly less than what a bb’er does, but they get big tri’s by working them indirectly through board presses, benching, etc.
Really? Powerlifters don’t do significant tricep work? [/quote]
I do lots of triceps work…
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Dieting is fucking hard.
Gaining allows for a lot more freedom in terms of schedule and such. Yes, few have the patience and motivation to stick it out in the long haul…
Apples and oranges.[/quote]
It really isn’t apples and oranges.
It is much more time consuming and requires significantly more discipline to lift weights 5-6 times a week WITH NO LONG LAY OFFS and no claims of training “off and on” for 15 years…through deaths in the family, marriages, intense education and schooling, and a full time career…than it does to diet down for 4-6 months.
Yes, contest dieting is really fucking difficult. I doubt anyone would deny this. However, if someone can train to build that size and be that consistent for years on end, then they likely already have the discipline to diet down for a few months even if it is hard as hell.
With regards to the time and energy expended as well as the level of consistency needed, yes, I would say building your body up to an extreme level is much HARDER than dieting down even though many of us would claim it is more “enjoyable”.
It simply doesn’t take 15 years to diet down, but it may take that long to build enough muscle to stand out on a stage of extremely built bodybuilders.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
bugeishaAD wrote:
Dieting is fucking hard.
Gaining allows for a lot more freedom in terms of schedule and such. Yes, few have the patience and motivation to stick it out in the long haul…
Apples and oranges.
It really isn’t apples and oranges.
It is much more time consuming and requires significantly more discipline to lift weights 5-6 times a week WITH NO LONG LAY OFFS and no claims of training “off and on” for 15 years…through deaths in the family, marriages, intense education and schooling, and a full time career…than it does to diet down for 4-6 months.
Yes, contest dieting is really fucking difficult. I doubt anyone would deny this. However, if someone can train to build that size and be that consistent for years on end, then they likely already have the discipline to diet down for a few months even if it is hard as hell.
With regards to the time and energy expended as well as the level of consistency needed, yes, I would say building your body up to an extreme level is much HARDER than dieting down even though many of us would claim it is more “enjoyable”.
It simply doesn’t take 15 years to diet down, but it may take that long to build enough muscle to stand out on a stage of extremely built bodybuilders.[/quote]
I wish I could say that I have crazy discipline, but I don’t. I just love lifting weights. I love pushing myself as hard as I can in the gym. I love the endorphin high. At one point, I had to be disciplined, and didn’t enjoy it as much. I can see what you are saying though. I’ve had several shoulder injuries that set me back months at a time. It is depressing getting back in the gym and you can’t even do a pull up, and this has happened more than a dozen times. The cool thing is, it does come back faster.
[quote]markdp wrote:
Professor X wrote:
bugeishaAD wrote:
Dieting is fucking hard.
Gaining allows for a lot more freedom in terms of schedule and such. Yes, few have the patience and motivation to stick it out in the long haul…
Apples and oranges.
It really isn’t apples and oranges.
It is much more time consuming and requires significantly more discipline to lift weights 5-6 times a week WITH NO LONG LAY OFFS and no claims of training “off and on” for 15 years…through deaths in the family, marriages, intense education and schooling, and a full time career…than it does to diet down for 4-6 months.
Yes, contest dieting is really fucking difficult. I doubt anyone would deny this. However, if someone can train to build that size and be that consistent for years on end, then they likely already have the discipline to diet down for a few months even if it is hard as hell.
With regards to the time and energy expended as well as the level of consistency needed, yes, I would say building your body up to an extreme level is much HARDER than dieting down even though many of us would claim it is more “enjoyable”.
It simply doesn’t take 15 years to diet down, but it may take that long to build enough muscle to stand out on a stage of extremely built bodybuilders.
I wish I could say that I have crazy discipline, but I don’t. I just love lifting weights. I love pushing myself as hard as I can in the gym. I love the endorphin high. At one point, I had to be disciplined, and didn’t enjoy it as much. I can see what you are saying though. I’ve had several shoulder injuries that set me back months at a time. It is depressing getting back in the gym and you can’t even do a pull up, and this has happened more than a dozen times. The cool thing is, it does come back faster.[/quote]
Aside from when I had surgery last year, I have not had any lay offs. I haven’t taken more than maybe 3 days off in a row in about a decade…and even when I did it was because of school vacation, no car and no public transportation to get to a gym. I just know very few people can do that…and go to school full time and/or work full time. That makes me question why people think that is so easy. I enjoy lifting too which is why I do it, but you don’t build the size I did by half assing it in the gym or not taking this seriously.
There would be a hell of a lot more really big lifters around if it was so easy.
[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
“we all know how how much harder it is to cut than to bulk”
Really? I have found it much harder to put on weight than to lose fat. Sure its easier to put on fat, but to put on good quality muscle I find it much harder[/quote]
Lifters that think it is ‘easier to bulk than cut’ do not understand the concept. Proper bulking requires a great deal more planning, control, and discipline. The workouts are much harder on the body and more difficult to recover from. Evaluating progress on the bulk is more complicated and decisions regarding modifications to protocal more involved.
To Bulk is hard work…To Cut is just working.
Bulking is way more fun.
[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:
Sick Rick wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:
Carlitosway wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:
i would try to up my rowing and pressing movements ad those will be the exercises that put the most “pressure” on the bis and tris (and shoulders)
sigh here we go again…
seeing as i’m new i’m a bit confused about the reactions/responses to my post. anyone care to explain?
Back exercises are called BACK exercises for a reason. They work your back. If they would work your biceps directly, they’d be called bicep exercises. Doing pulling and pushing exercises won’t get your arms up to par, unless those pulling and pushing exercises are called curls, dips and close grip bench presses.
alright, i see your point. but why is it that the biggest people with the biggest biceps/triceps have some amazing pressing/rowing power? i mean, what will work your biceps, even if it is indirect more: rowing 315 for 10 or bb curling 115 for 10? obviously its the rowing, the bicep has to stay engaged, even if indirect, for 10 reps with heavier weight than with the 115 even though the 115 is a “direct” exercise.
its the same concept as why powerlifters have such big tris. they rarely do direct tri work, or at the very least, their direct tri work is significantly less than what a bb’er does, but they get big tri’s by working them indirectly through board presses, benching, etc.
This is getting retarded. I’m a big guy. I can row much more than the 315lbs you just spoke of. I also train biceps directly. Why the hell do some of you think in such a limited fashion that you believe this is some type of “either or” situation where you either row OR curl but never both?
I used to train with powerlifters…who also fucking trained biceps and triceps directly. That may be why they were so fucking huge.
Again, please post pics of your own well developed arms that you do not train directly.
i train the bis and tris directly and indirectly. my point was that most of the mass that a powerlifter gains, at least for triceps, would be due mainly to pressing/compound movements instead of the accessory work they do that directly targets the triceps such as pushdowns or skulls. [/quote]
Why are powerlifters all of a sudden bigger than bodybuilders according to the “compound only” crowd? Bodybuilders generally have bigger triceps than powerlifters of the same bodyweight.
You are not taking into acount leverage factors. Someone can cgbp more than they skull crush, but that does not mean the triceps are under more tension (not “pressure”). It’s not that simple.
I gave up arm training for a while years ago, and my arms totally flattened out even though my rowing and pressing stayed the same.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:
i would try to up my rowing and pressing movements ad those will be the exercises that put the most “pressure” on the bis and tris (and shoulders)
Wooo hooo… 2009 representing… there you go…[/quote]
gawdammit.
man prof hit the nail on the head…it’s not easy. I like lifting too but man I work electrical I go up and down a ladder a million times a day…couple that with scorching weather outside…it’s even hotter in house we’re workin in cause all the himidity stays IN THERE with NO wind. Do that for 8 hours a day, more because I work in a family business and then come home completely tired and feelin worn out cause of the heat and then go train SERIOSULY…actually bustin your balls…it’s tough man and to do that 4x out of the week.
And on “off” days I train fighting. makin sure I get enough meals in.so i gotta cook and prepare meals for tomorrow all day at work n such too…man I just have BARELY enough time to sit down and relax on any given day for more than 30min. even when I’m sittin I gotta stretch or somethin lol. Never-ending, but has turned into habit for me.
The longer time I’ve been doin this now I get even more serious bout it cause I put so much effort into it I might as well do it all out. Experience with it too helps me balance out things better too, when I started I was a mess lol.
[quote]…Ironically I was going to start a more traditional strength routine like Rippetoe’s starting strength with less direct arm work, thanks counting beans for the heads up, I will continue to include direct arm work…
[/quote]
Rippetoe does explain how to do barbell curls in Starting Strength because, as he says, “you’ll do them anyway”. When I did SS, I did weighted chin-ups (3x5) and barbells curls (3x8) on M and F.
[quote]jsdool wrote:
Rippetoe does explain how to do barbell curls in Starting Strength because, as he says, “you’ll do them anyway”.
[/quote]
As you should.
I’m still in the dark as to why everyone sucks off Rippetoe. He isn’t a dumbass, but he isn’t the second coming of Jesus either. The more I learn, the less I understand why everyone thinks he is the alpha & omega of lifting.
He wrote a simple BB based program with progression. FUCKING WOW. How amazing.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
man prof hit the nail on the head…it’s not easy. I like lifting too but man I work electrical I go up and down a ladder a million times a day…couple that with scorching weather outside…it’s even hotter in house we’re workin in cause all the himidity stays IN THERE with NO wind. Do that for 8 hours a day, more because I work in a family business and then come home completely tired and feelin worn out cause of the heat and then go train SERIOSULY…actually bustin your balls…it’s tough man and to do that 4x out of the week. And on “off” days I train fighting. makin sure I get enough meals in.so i gotta cook and prepare meals for tomorrow all day at work n such too…man I just have BARELY enough time to sit down and relax on any given day for more than 30min. even when I’m sittin I gotta stretch or somethin lol. Never-ending, but has turned into habit for me. The longer time I’ve been doin this now I get even more serious bout it cause I put so much effort into it I might as well do it all out. Experience with it too helps me balance out things better too, when I started I was a mess lol.[/quote]
You could make a similar sounding post about dieting, but the point X made is that dieting is a 16-24 week process for serious bodybuilders, while it is a decade long+ process to get to their size. I personally think dieting for those 16-24 weeks can be more demanding(especially the last few weeks when you are in a SERIOUS caloric deficit with no carbs, fasted morning cardio every day, and then throw in dehydration for the final few days), but it’s over pretty quickly, which makes it “easy”(relative) to just man up and push through.
That last part is probably why getting appreciable size is so difficult, because while the breaking point of wanting to quit may not be as physically stressful as the peak of a diet, it has more opportunities to happen because you can’t just man up and push through for a few months and be a mammoth.
In a sense, bulking requires less commitment than cutting. It’s easier to eat over maintenance than to eat under maintenance. The effort you put into working out should be the same, no matter whether you bulk or cut. I think most of us enjoy bulking a lot more than we enjoy cutting.
That said, putting on muscle obviously takes a longer period of time compared to losing fat. People can get lean relatively quickly, but it can take years to grow a significant amount of muscle.
[quote]forlife wrote:
In a sense, bulking requires less commitment than cutting. It’s easier to eat over maintenance than to eat under maintenance.[/quote]
Huh? For whom? For me it certainly is not easier to sit there and stuff myself while bulking then it is to not eat that much while cutting(though I’ve never truly been on a cut before). I wonder how many of you guys making these statements about how cutting is harder actually started out really skinny. I guess that can be the difference: where one starts from.
[quote]Dabba wrote:
Huh? For whom? For me it certainly is not easier to sit there and stuff myself while bulking then it is to not eat that much while cutting(though I’ve never truly been on a cut before). I wonder how many of you guys making these statements about how cutting is harder actually started out really skinny. I guess that can be the difference: where one starts from.[/quote]
Most people like to eat. Therefore, most people enjoy bulking more than they enjoy cutting.
[quote]Dabba wrote:
forlife wrote:
In a sense, bulking requires less commitment than cutting. It’s easier to eat over maintenance than to eat under maintenance.
Huh? For whom? For me it certainly is not easier to sit there and stuff myself while bulking then it is to not eat that much while cutting(though I’ve never truly been on a cut before). I wonder how many of you guys making these statements about how cutting is harder actually started out really skinny. I guess that can be the difference: where one starts from.[/quote]
Exactly. I’ve gained about 140lbs since I first started to right now (about 100lbs of lean body mass give or take a few). That was NOT fucking easy. Eating 6-8 large meals a day much of the time was not easy. It was also not comfortable all of the time. I personally wonder how many of the people claiming bulking is easy have actually built themselves up to a degree that would truly impress serious lifters.
It takes just as much focus to truly pack on a truly large amount of muscle as it takes to diet down and those who started this really skinny and got really big worked harder than some here seem to give credit for.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Dabba wrote:
Huh? For whom? For me it certainly is not easier to sit there and stuff myself while bulking then it is to not eat that much while cutting(though I’ve never truly been on a cut before). I wonder how many of you guys making these statements about how cutting is harder actually started out really skinny. I guess that can be the difference: where one starts from.
Most people like to eat. Therefore, most people enjoy bulking more than they enjoy cutting.[/quote]
The point he is making is that you aren’t that big. Yes, eating alone may be fun, but try eating as much as some of us needed to in order to really get big. It becomes a hassle that we do because we love it. Eating that much, especially when it isn’t exactly food we love but food we have to get in to see progress is not always fun.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
especially when it isn’t exactly food we love but food we have to get in to see progress is not always fun.[/quote]
I’m fucking sick of eggs and turkey.
They’re both probably equally difficult in their own respects but building muscle takes 10x longer which, in effect, makes it that much harder to be so consistant. How people can’t see how much longer it takes as evidence is beyond me.
A few people in this thread “tried to get cut up”. For how long? Chances are, you dieted for a couple months and then called it quits when you didn’t have a raging veiny six pack. What would happen if you quit “bulking” aka building muscle after a couple months because you weren’t huge yet?
If bulking is easier than cutting, why are there tons of lean (if just plain skinny) people on this forum, and only a handful of guys with real size (not claiming to be one of them).
If bulking were easier, youâ??d see more Andy Boltons than Brad Pits. Which physic do you guys think is more easily achievable? If cutting is the hard part of bodyBUILDING, Brad should get tons of props for fight club, right?