How ridiculous that you can get ahold of clen or ephedrine but not HOT-ROX or Spike.
Then again, where vanity drugs are concerned, the entire world seems to be ridiculous. Except Thailand.
Yeah it wild.
So how about strength gains on tbol?
To be honest…although clen is slightly better for fatburning…you will experience really significant results from a simple EC stack…don’t worry about the aspirin. As far as steroids to help you cut…could I convince you to use inject and not oral only? Truthfully test prop and tren is probably the best for that purpose.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I don’t believe that switching between ECA and clen helps upregulate the receptors AT ALL. ECA does downregulate the same receptors to a lesser degree and they are not going to ‘recover’ in these two weeks in a way that makes clen more effective. If to use clen for an extended period [which I’m not necessarily recommending] use benadryl or ketotifen every night of the third week. There is an article called ‘steroid dieting’. You should check it out. While it’s true that you can basically eat crappy while on gear and still lose fat, you can also take the opportunity to be strict with your diet ahd shred at breakneck spead.[/quote]
Thanks, didn’t see your post. Yes I read the Steroid dieting article. Good read.
While the Burger & Beer diet sounds fun, I agree totally that eating super-strict AND using AAS sounds like a good plan for maximum fatloss.
Think I will opt for a modified Velo-diet, with one non-liquid meal consisting of chicken and veggies or tuna and veggies everyday. This will make the whole experience a little less unpleasant. Will still keep carbs at less than 100g for the duration.
Just eat a lot less, the AAS will spare the muscle. And though I won’t say I’ve never done it, stims with AAS could potentially boost your BP too high. I actually have BP problems. Partly it’s genetic, but I also use to use stims for appetite suppression.
It may not affect you the way it did me, but I would really recommend monitoring your BP.
[quote]facko wrote:
To be honest…although clen is slightly better for fatburning…you will experience really significant results from a simple EC stack…don’t worry about the aspirin. As far as steroids to help you cut…could I convince you to use inject and not oral only? Truthfully test prop and tren is probably the best for that purpose.[/quote]
From what I have read clen is only effective for to-three weeks at a time before receptor downregulation. Can EC be used for longer periods before the effect is reduced?
I will not be injecting. If my girlfriend found needles/syringes here I would be out in the cold. Also I really do believe orals can be effective on their own.
I will use tbol for 3-week cycles with two-four weeks off in between, then take a longer break. Expect/hope for moderate lean gains in strenght and size that will be keepable with good diet.
Will clen provide the same sort of mental boost/wake-up that EC will give you?
I did read that clen is very slightly anabolic and anti-catabolic, but I guess I shouldn’t worry about that as using anavar and/or tbol will have a much greater effect in this regard.
The thing is I can actually get clen cheaper than any EC-products.
[quote]balisong wrote:
Will clen provide the same sort of mental boost/wake-up that EC will give you?
I did read that clen is very slightly anabolic and anti-catabolic, but I guess I shouldn’t worry about that as using anavar and/or tbol will have a much greater effect in this regard.
The thing is I can actually get clen cheaper than any EC-products.[/quote]
Yeah, you’ll get a mental boost, along with a boost in jitters, anxiety, and general irritability. It’s not really as great as it’s made out to be. And this is just my opinion, but I think that anti-catabolic business is just a myth. It’s certainly never been shown to be true in any creature other than mice, and I just don’t see it, personally. I definitely wouldn’t count on it alone to spare muscle during heavy dieting.
The anti catabolic thing is just a myth. That was only proven on livestock. In fact I’m willing to be clen IS catabolic. I have used EC for 4 weeks at a time …and that is what I would recommend. 4 weeks on a week or two off.
[quote]facko wrote:
The anti catabolic thing is just a myth. That was only proven on livestock. In fact I’m willing to be clen IS catabolic. I have used EC for 4 weeks at a time …and that is what I would recommend. 4 weeks on a week or two off.[/quote]
Shit, I once read that clen is anabolic to one of the valves or ventricles of your heart muscle! Not good.
Hm, okay yeah i just read about the risk og growing ventricles too. Sounds less than ideal.
Guess I will drop the clen and just go with an EC-product then. Thanks for the advice.
Any thoughts on the strenght increasing ability of tbol?
Basically clen stops your body from removing dead cells from your heart and also causes cardiac cell degeneration. Of course this has only been tested on rats but…you may notice that after taking clen for some time and running and such that by the time you are at the end of taking it…say 4 weeks? Your cardio may be worse. It may be harder for you to run like you did 4 weeks prior. Aside from this it is relatively safe if you use it for short periods of time say two weeks. But is it worth the benefit when you could just take an EC ?
And as far as tbol increading strength…it is hard to say if you are going to be using it while dieting hard. But you still may experience significant increase in strength.
I will use tbol for several short 3-week cycles before dieting hard (in june), and then stacked with anavar during the actual diet.
Albuterol has many of the same benefits without the same sides as clen. Maybe not quite as potent. It has also been shown to be BENEFICIAL to cholesterol in many. A plus on cycle.
What about albuterol instead of clen? Surprised no-one has mentioned this yet, as it seems to have the benefits of clen while being much more tolerable and less side effects.
[quote]balisong wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I don’t believe that switching between ECA and clen helps upregulate the receptors AT ALL. ECA does downregulate the same receptors to a lesser degree and they are not going to ‘recover’ in these two weeks in a way that makes clen more effective. If to use clen for an extended period [which I’m not necessarily recommending] use benadryl or ketotifen every night of the third week. There is an article called ‘steroid dieting’. You should check it out. While it’s true that you can basically eat crappy while on gear and still lose fat, you can also take the opportunity to be strict with your diet ahd shred at breakneck spead.
Thanks, didn’t see your post. Yes I read the Steroid dieting article. Good read.
While the Burger & Beer diet sounds fun, I agree totally that eating super-strict AND using AAS sounds like a good plan for maximum fatloss.
Think I will opt for a modified Velo-diet, with one non-liquid meal consisting of chicken and veggies or tuna and veggies everyday. This will make the whole experience a little less unpleasant. Will still keep carbs at less than 100g for the duration.[/quote]
Sounds like a plan. Thouth I don’t know why you would want to use shakes instead of whole food sources of protein.
The shakes are just for the 4 weeks of Velocity Diet at the end of june. I have done the V-Diet before and loved the results, apart from some slight muscle loss near the end.
This time I will add a solid meal every day though, and also eat some vegetables during the day. So, slightly modified.
Hoping the tbol/anavar combo will help me retain all my muscle, or even maybe gain a little bit through the diet.
Looking forward to trying out tbol while eating well over maintenance before that.
Hey bud I used tbol at 70mg/Day for 6 weeks and yes I got some strength gains from it. As well as around 8 lbs gained. But 90% of it went down the tubes afterwards. Just make sure you are using Milk Thistle as Tbol is Hepatoxic, and make sure you have a good PCT planned.
Good Luck
[quote]Randizo wrote:
Hey bud I used tbol at 70mg/Day for 6 weeks and yes I got some strength gains from it. As well as around 8 lbs gained. But 90% of it went down the tubes afterwards. Just make sure you are using Milk Thistle as Tbol is Hepatoxic, and make sure you have a good PCT planned.
Good Luck[/quote]
I will cycle on/off for short 3-week periods and was planning on using 50mg a day. From what I have read it’s not among the most toxic steroids, and also will not shut down your testproduction as long as dosages are moderate and cycles very short.
Will eat lots of clean food, 250g or more protein a day and train my brains out. hopefully i will not lose much afterwards.
Also read somewhere that when cycles are very short (two-three weeks) your own test actually rebounds to a higher level in the off weeks. Any truth to this?