I think it’s pretty obvious what you need to do, and I think that you were well aware of that before creating this thread.
Now you’ve seen that others are in support, it’s time to act.
[quote]
I think we need to really reflect on ACs heartfelt, first hand experience with a felony. I know we all thirst for justice - that’s natural. We want the kid to be punished and punishment is certainly appropriate. Although we disagree on the degree of punishment and the means (no surprise there) we cannot just dismiss ACs insights. You, and some others, are ignoring the temporal aspect to the potential outcome. AC is correct. If you have a felony it’s a life long burden and barrier. Is that a fair punishment for an 18 year old? I’m not so sure. I tend to say no.
And I think a reasonable prosecutor would likely agree. Yeah, there are some hard asses out there that care about nothing but their stats, but many do have a sense of fairness, if not a need for expediency to get cases closed and the latter means pleading cases down. Far more cases are pleaded down that actually tried. Because a trial and conviction would rely upon the cooperation of the victim (OP), I still believe the case could certainly be appropriately steered.
Not everyone is built for confrontation, combat or actual retribution. Most people don’t even know someone who knows someone who they can hire and c’mon guys, this is his fiance’s child. We don’t hire someone to knee cap our fiance’s son although I certainly understand the base emotions behind such a desire.
Pragmatically speaking, there are only two options here. Do nothing and remain separate from the child - which will strain the relationship with the intended wife. Enforce the law and seek a fair punishment.
But AC is right. A felony conviction is not justice in this case but I certainly do not believe that a felony conviction is a likelihood - unless of course he already has a record for violence. First time offender, 18, in college, scholarship, a reticent victim, domestic, etc. - the State is looking for a resolution everyone can live with. I don’t see them running wild on his ass.[/quote]
This is why I suggested calling a staff sargeant, describing the situation (relatively full disclosure) and see what his thoughts are. You may be surprised by his answer and you may have options you weren’t aware of.
I train with cops and whenever something goofy like this comes up I drop a dime and get their opinion.
Recently, my 11 yo son was at a park with friends. Some teenagers started picking on them making crude remarks about their parents, etc. Just totally inappropriate. My kid, like father like son, has an attitude. The net result of this is one of the kids threw a chunk of ice at him, hit him in the neck and it left a bruise. I can state with full confidence had it hit him in the face, as likely was the intent, we would have been heading to the dentist or ER for some work.
The boys didn’t recognize the kids which sucked. I called a buddy of mine who is a sargeant, described the situation and he basically advised me to find out who he is, take the parental route first, if that isn’t satisfying, he would talk to the kid and family and give me input on wether to do anything formal.
Basically, he told me if somebody didn’t confront him with behavior like that now, the cops would end up dealing with him anyway so it couldn’t be let go and obviously if I put hands on him I would be in much more trouble than he is so that isn’t an option.
I am patient, will figure out who he is (I am very active in youth sports and have good relationships at the local HS’s).
May take a week, may take months but eventually this kid will get a wake-up call.
Remember the old saying, “All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.”
In my mind, given his age, you are basically obligated to ensure there are consequences for this. Otherwise, he will likely escalate and end up in a situation where people aren’t so reluctant to stick it up his ass and break it off.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I think we need to really reflect on ACs heartfelt, first hand experience with a felony. I know we all thirst for justice - that’s natural. We want the kid to be punished and punishment is certainly appropriate. Although we disagree on the degree of punishment and the means (no surprise there) we cannot just dismiss ACs insights. You, and some others, are ignoring the temporal aspect to the potential outcome. AC is correct. If you have a felony it’s a life long burden and barrier. Is that a fair punishment for an 18 year old? I’m not so sure. I tend to say no.
And I think a reasonable prosecutor would likely agree. Yeah, there are some hard asses out there that care about nothing but their stats, but many do have a sense of fairness, if not a need for expediency to get cases closed and the latter means pleading cases down. Far more cases are pleaded down that actually tried. Because a trial and conviction would rely upon the cooperation of the victim (OP), I still believe the case could certainly be appropriately steered.
Not everyone is built for confrontation, combat or actual retribution. Most people don’t even know someone who knows someone who they can hire and c’mon guys, this is his fiance’s child. We don’t hire someone to knee cap our fiance’s son although I certainly understand the base emotions behind such a desire.
Pragmatically speaking, there are only two options here. Do nothing and remain separate from the child - which will strain the relationship with the intended wife. Enforce the law and seek a fair punishment.
But AC is right. A felony conviction is not justice in this case but I certainly do not believe that a felony conviction is a likelihood - unless of course he already has a record for violence. First time offender, 18, in college, scholarship, a reticent victim, domestic, etc. - the State is looking for a resolution everyone can live with. I don’t see them running wild on his ass.[/quote]
You make a number of very relevant points. Most prosecutors wouldn’t try this one to the extent of a felony, and even without a plea bargain, most judges would be more than amicable with simple assault.
Hell, if the kid wears a suit and presents himself well, he could probably get disorderly conduct.
On the other hand, you touched on something that You know, and I know, but most people don’t. The point of most people not being wired for violence. If this was an isolated incident, I would say, sure, let it slide, or prosecute with some sense of mercy. But the kid acted like a straight up predator. He took a good position and waited for vulnerability before he struck, then struck very effectively.
Those types of things lead me to believe that this was not an isolated incident. Maybe no record of prosecution, but not his first dance. Hell, most kids that never threw a punch would have twisted their wrist and broken their hand from punching him in the head, then go off crying about their broken paw. Sounds to me like the kid hooked him in the face while he was bent to get the key.
Back to the record though. A felony stands out and certainly make things difficult, but we both know that that is completely unlikely.
Even a misdemeanor when you are young can be looked past, as long as it doesn’t happen again. What really fucks someone is a recurring history. Once you have racked up a few incidents and a pattern emerges, you are truly and long term fucked.
I’d say prosecute the kid and give him a wake up call. If he wants to live a life of violence and develop a history, it’s his own choice, but one charge isn’t going to ruin his life either.
Unfortunately, when a person looses control of them self, they have created a situation where someone else is going to make decisions for them.
The kid did it to himself. The real determinant is going to be whether or not he keeps doing it.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
In my mind, given his age, you are basically obligated to ensure there are consequences for this. Otherwise, he will likely escalate and end up in a situation where people aren’t so reluctant to stick it up his ass and break it off.[/quote]
Much more succinct way of expressing what I was trying to get across.
Some disagreement going on here but we all agree the op has no chance of marrying this woman now, right?
Maybe you guys are right. If the prosecutor is reasonable and the Judge isn’t a total dick, he may have a chance of getting help instead of a felony. And BG, you are right - sometimes I fail to remember that MOST people don’t have an “enforcer” on their speed dial. Or the intestinal fortitude to make the call. (how do those people LIVE? LOL)
My only point with all this is that if a felony conviction can be avoided, for the kid’s sake I would hope you avoid it. Ponce, I agree with you MOST of the time, but in this instance you don’t know what you’re talking about: getting a lease is a VERY different animal than getting a JOB. Or a professional license that will enable you to legally PRACTICE a job. TRUST ME on this one.
I like the idea up there about talking to a police officer (one of the good ones, not one of the pigs) and getting his perspective. They’ll have the benefit of giving you a better insight on the way justice is implemented in you area. As I’m sure we all know, it varies from state to state so some of the ideas here may not be very realistic for the OP.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
[quote]on edge wrote:
Some disagreement going on here but we all agree the op has no chance of marrying this woman now, right?[/quote]
Yes, this at least has been made very clear and is under no questioning
The thing I find annoying is we have gotten no further comment from the OP, so basically this all amounts to mental masturbation.
OP, you’re wrong about fucking up his life. If he will assault his own mother for any reason his life is already fucked up. Press charges, and if your fiance has a problem with it dump her.
[quote]makkun wrote:
[quote]bwbski wrote:
only thing holding me back is it may f up the rest of his life…[/quote]
Firstly, it’s him doing this, not you. Secondly, you may be doing him a favour in the long term by showing him his limits. No one normally moves on to attacking his immediate family without having tested his limitations before. If he doesn’t learn this late - next time someone might die. Go for it.
Makkun[/quote]
Again, you’re forgetting the unfair temporal aspect to this. A felony is a life altering thing. Normally, punishment involves “paying your dues”. A felony is a life long punishment. Until we change the laws regarding employer’s ability to ask and hire based upon criminal convictions, the unfairness will inherently be there.
You can argue the kid should do counseling, pay a fine, community service, even serve some jail time. But can you argue an 18 year old first offender should forfeit his ability to earn for the rest of his life? Is that your sense of justice?
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I think we need to really reflect on ACs heartfelt, first hand experience with a felony. I know we all thirst for justice - that’s natural. We want the kid to be punished and punishment is certainly appropriate. Although we disagree on the degree of punishment and the means (no surprise there) we cannot just dismiss ACs insights. You, and some others, are ignoring the temporal aspect to the potential outcome. AC is correct. If you have a felony it’s a life long burden and barrier. Is that a fair punishment for an 18 year old? I’m not so sure. I tend to say no.
And I think a reasonable prosecutor would likely agree. Yeah, there are some hard asses out there that care about nothing but their stats, but many do have a sense of fairness, if not a need for expediency to get cases closed and the latter means pleading cases down. Far more cases are pleaded down that actually tried. Because a trial and conviction would rely upon the cooperation of the victim (OP), I still believe the case could certainly be appropriately steered.
Not everyone is built for confrontation, combat or actual retribution. Most people don’t even know someone who knows someone who they can hire and c’mon guys, this is his fiance’s child. We don’t hire someone to knee cap our fiance’s son although I certainly understand the base emotions behind such a desire.
Pragmatically speaking, there are only two options here. Do nothing and remain separate from the child - which will strain the relationship with the intended wife. Enforce the law and seek a fair punishment.
But AC is right. A felony conviction is not justice in this case but I certainly do not believe that a felony conviction is a likelihood - unless of course he already has a record for violence. First time offender, 18, in college, scholarship, a reticent victim, domestic, etc. - the State is looking for a resolution everyone can live with. I don’t see them running wild on his ass.[/quote]
You make a number of very relevant points. Most prosecutors wouldn’t try this one to the extent of a felony, and even without a plea bargain, most judges would be more than amicable with simple assault.
Hell, if the kid wears a suit and presents himself well, he could probably get disorderly conduct.
On the other hand, you touched on something that You know, and I know, but most people don’t. The point of most people not being wired for violence. If this was an isolated incident, I would say, sure, let it slide, or prosecute with some sense of mercy. But the kid acted like a straight up predator. He took a good position and waited for vulnerability before he struck, then struck very effectively.
Those types of things lead me to believe that this was not an isolated incident. Maybe no record of prosecution, but not his first dance. Hell, most kids that never threw a punch would have twisted their wrist and broken their hand from punching him in the head, then go off crying about their broken paw. Sounds to me like the kid hooked him in the face while he was bent to get the key.
Back to the record though. A felony stands out and certainly make things difficult, but we both know that that is completely unlikely.
Even a misdemeanor when you are young can be looked past, as long as it doesn’t happen again. What really fucks someone is a recurring history. Once you have racked up a few incidents and a pattern emerges, you are truly and long term fucked.
I’d say prosecute the kid and give him a wake up call. If he wants to live a life of violence and develop a history, it’s his own choice, but one charge isn’t going to ruin his life either.
Unfortunately, when a person looses control of them self, they have created a situation where someone else is going to make decisions for them.
The kid did it to himself. The real determinant is going to be whether or not he keeps doing it.
[/quote]
I agree with you 100% and I do not believe this was an isolated incident. The kid is acquainted with violence. Hell, he’s a football player. I’m sure he’s had a scuffle or two, or three… 
I say prosecute and work with the State. I do not see a felony conviction happening here. I don’t even see a trial. There would most likely be some form of pre-trial intervention and a chance for expungement down the road if not after a short period. This kid needs a wake up call and he needs it before he gets older. Next time, he’s maybe a bit older, in a bar, and gets in a fight with someone that presses charges and he’s looking at a felony for sure.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Unfortunately, when a person looses control of them self, they have created a situation where someone else is going to make decisions for them.
The kid did it to himself. The real determinant is going to be whether or not he keeps doing it.
[/quote]
Well stated.
I would be inclined that if a verbal altercation lead to some nasty words and posturing then this happened, to be on the fence, but when you get cold cocked, nose broken and cut, then he takes out mom, I’d say any consideration for him basically swirls down the toilet.
If the kid doesn’t have any priors, the DA will offer this as an aggravated misdemeanor as a part of a plea deal, with some kind of suspended jail sentence, probation, community service type shit. Maybe some anger management classes or counseling too.
If this was an argument that got out of control and he didn’t touch mom, I’d just chalk it up to a fight and not worry too much about it. However, he threw you a beating while you were either unwilling or unable to defend yourself and he put hands on his own mother? Next time cock boy is home, rufanol the motherfucker, drag him to the basement and tie his ass up very good. Then spend the next 48 hours visiting him periodically, preferrably weilding a kinfe and or a gun, and calmly explain to him that the only reason he is still alive is because you love his mother and his death would also hurt her. Ask him if his size and strength are going to protect him from someone with the desire to see him dead. Explain to him that the reason man rules the earth is because he has a big brain, not because he is physically strong. Then tell him if he ever lays a finger on you or his mother again, you will kill him, cut him into peices and spread the small peices of his body miles out in the ocean where the remains will be never found.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
If this was an argument that got out of control and he didn’t touch mom, I’d just chalk it up to a fight and not worry too much about it. However, he threw you a beating while you were either unwilling or unable to defend yourself and he put hands on his own mother? Next time cock boy is home, rufanol the motherfucker, drag him to the basement and tie his ass up very good. Then spend the next 48 hours visiting him periodically, preferrably weilding a kinfe and or a gun, and calmly explain to him that the only reason he is still alive is because you love his mother and his death would also hurt her. Ask him if his size and strength are going to protect him from someone with the desire to see him dead. Explain to him that the reason man rules the earth is because he has a big brain, not because he is physically strong. Then tell him if he ever lays a finger on you or his mother again, you will kill him, cut him into peices and spread the small peices of his body miles out in the ocean where the remains will be never found.
V[/quote]
I missed you.
No word from OP since post. Is he dead by the hands of son in law?
[quote]Vegita wrote:
If this was an argument that got out of control and he didn’t touch mom, I’d just chalk it up to a fight and not worry too much about it. However, he threw you a beating while you were either unwilling or unable to defend yourself and he put hands on his own mother? Next time cock boy is home, rufanol the motherfucker, drag him to the basement and tie his ass up very good. Then spend the next 48 hours visiting him periodically, preferrably weilding a kinfe and or a gun, and calmly explain to him that the only reason he is still alive is because you love his mother and his death would also hurt her. Ask him if his size and strength are going to protect him from someone with the desire to see him dead. Explain to him that the reason man rules the earth is because he has a big brain, not because he is physically strong. Then tell him if he ever lays a finger on you or his mother again, you will kill him, cut him into peices and spread the small peices of his body miles out in the ocean where the remains will be never found.
V[/quote]
I’ve held back on replying to this thread, but Veg, you have a point.
On one hand I still think a lawsuit will do that trick, but if you can get the mother to agree to it, a lesson like this will teach him a lot.
(Maybe not to this extreme.)
[quote]imhungry wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
If this was an argument that got out of control and he didn’t touch mom, I’d just chalk it up to a fight and not worry too much about it. However, he threw you a beating while you were either unwilling or unable to defend yourself and he put hands on his own mother? Next time cock boy is home, rufanol the motherfucker, drag him to the basement and tie his ass up very good. Then spend the next 48 hours visiting him periodically, preferrably weilding a kinfe and or a gun, and calmly explain to him that the only reason he is still alive is because you love his mother and his death would also hurt her. Ask him if his size and strength are going to protect him from someone with the desire to see him dead. Explain to him that the reason man rules the earth is because he has a big brain, not because he is physically strong. Then tell him if he ever lays a finger on you or his mother again, you will kill him, cut him into peices and spread the small peices of his body miles out in the ocean where the remains will be never found.
V[/quote]
I missed you.[/quote]
Thanks buddy, new job has me pretty much offline during the day so I am rarely on the net these days. I was jonesing though
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
[quote]imhungry wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
If this was an argument that got out of control and he didn’t touch mom, I’d just chalk it up to a fight and not worry too much about it. However, he threw you a beating while you were either unwilling or unable to defend yourself and he put hands on his own mother? Next time cock boy is home, rufanol the motherfucker, drag him to the basement and tie his ass up very good. Then spend the next 48 hours visiting him periodically, preferrably weilding a kinfe and or a gun, and calmly explain to him that the only reason he is still alive is because you love his mother and his death would also hurt her. Ask him if his size and strength are going to protect him from someone with the desire to see him dead. Explain to him that the reason man rules the earth is because he has a big brain, not because he is physically strong. Then tell him if he ever lays a finger on you or his mother again, you will kill him, cut him into peices and spread the small peices of his body miles out in the ocean where the remains will be never found.
V[/quote]
I missed you.[/quote]
Thanks buddy, new job has me pretty much offline during the day so I am rarely on the net these days. I was jonesing though
V[/quote]
V, you are legend around these parts. Stay!
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
If this was an argument that got out of control and he didn’t touch mom, I’d just chalk it up to a fight and not worry too much about it. However, he threw you a beating while you were either unwilling or unable to defend yourself and he put hands on his own mother? Next time cock boy is home, rufanol the motherfucker, drag him to the basement and tie his ass up very good. Then spend the next 48 hours visiting him periodically, preferrably weilding a kinfe and or a gun, and calmly explain to him that the only reason he is still alive is because you love his mother and his death would also hurt her. Ask him if his size and strength are going to protect him from someone with the desire to see him dead. Explain to him that the reason man rules the earth is because he has a big brain, not because he is physically strong. Then tell him if he ever lays a finger on you or his mother again, you will kill him, cut him into peices and spread the small peices of his body miles out in the ocean where the remains will be never found.
V[/quote]
I’ve held back on replying to this thread, but Veg, you have a point.
On one hand I still think a lawsuit will do that trick, but if you can get the mother to agree to it, a lesson like this will teach him a lot.
(Maybe not to this extreme.)[/quote]
My boxer is Dominant towards other dogs, doesn’t bite, but will charge and pin down any smaller dog. Obviously this is not behavior I allow so the first few times I used force to try to show him this behavior was unnaceptable, but his drive was only intensified with the physical stimulation and I was unwilling to risk actually injuring him to go any further with that method. I then began researching and found a guy who was using something he called a dominant dog collar. He uses it in cases where the dog is aggressive to the handler.
Basically the collar goes right behind the head, and is very snug, you don’t yank on it or anything, you just pick the dogs front feet off the ground which restricts the dogs airway. Basiccally you hang the dog. This calms them down and they learn after just a few calm corrections, that the motherfucker holding the leash has this amazing power to cut off my air and kill me.
You attack the mind, and convert it to a submissive state. With the son, you will only have 1 maybe 2 chances to do this so you have to do it fully. you won’t leave any physical injuries that could land you for assault, and the cops already know the kids a dick so if it’s your word v his, you should be ok if he does run and squeal.
The point is you want to teach him a lesson and make him a relaible family member, you want him to learn. Physical violence will only teach him to do more of the same. This way he might learn to use his mind to solve conflict. hopefully he doesn’t rufanol you back and chop you up and spread you out in the ocean.
V