Article on Sex and Bonding

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
About dominance - How about this scenario? This is from my BFF. She has taken a very pragmatic approach, and I think it’s fairly egalitarian. This is a marriage of about 10 years. She decided that, baring physical illness, she would never say no. Never. And her husband does the same for her. He never tells her no. I asked her how they decided on this strategy, and her reasons were that she noticed that sex becomes a point of contention in a lot of marriages, so she decided to try to avoid that in her own. Purely pragmatic. And funny, because there isn’t necessarily a lot of seduction going on. Either can just say, “You want to?” and the other person will say “Sure.” Now, it’s not entirely equal because her husband still initiates sex more often. Maybe you all can read that as he’s still dominant. He is dominant in a lot of other ways, so maybe his need to dominate is met. Does this scenario work for you guys?

As an aside, I asked her what she thought about relationships where the woman initiates sex most often, or nearly all the time. She said she thinks that usually happens as a result of the man being rejected enough so he stops trying, and takes the “Getting rejected is not working, so I guess she can ask me approach.” I’ve only seen that in one other friend, but I had to agree. In that situation, the man got turned down nearly all the time, so he finally just stopped asking. And so sex slowed down for them to about once or twice a month, when she would finally ask him. Not sexless, but less than ideal for most people. Recently, this friend told me that her husband pulled her aside one day and said something like “We’re in our forties now, and we’ve missed out on a lot of good times. Those years are gone, and we can never get them back. Part of me really resents you. It could have been a lot better.” OUCH - Not something you want your life partner to say to you. As in “Hey, you are my person. I trusted you to want to be with me, and to meet these basic emotional/ physical needs, and it could have made US a lot better and you blew it.”

EDIT: I think I’ve run out of good stories, and am at the end of my insight on this topic. I’m a school psychologist, not a Marriage counselor :). Soo, not the expert, but I do think all the layers of this in terms of the bio-chemistry, as well as the ways different people handle intimacy in their long term relationships is interesting. Some open discussion can be good. I often learn something. Thanks everybody for such thoughtful and frank responses.
[/quote]

This has been kind of a pet peeve of mine about women for a looong time. I hear them talk at parties with pride about how much they reject sex and how they are constantly wanted. For me it allowed me to develop an iron will. A took passive aggressive approach. If I heard this kind of shit, I would avoid sex like the plague. I figured if it’s such a hassle, fuck it. Far be it from me to be a hassle. Don’t like sex? Fine we won’t have it. No biggie. So next time you talk to your friends you can tell them that you haven’t been bothered and life is good.

If girls don’t like sex so much, why don’t they just stay virgins? They talk like it’s annoying and such a pain. Nobody is forcing you.

One thing I realized is that girls take it waaay more personal if you turn them down for sex than the opposite. Well, if you don’t want to be turned down, then don’t complain that people want to fuck you. I don’t like a challenge, it doesn’t turn me on, it doesn’t make me try harder, it does nothing but piss me off. I will never give chase. Life’s to short for that.
[/quote]

Pat, I was talking about two very different situations here. I’m not defending the person in paragraph B, quite the opposite. That situation is pretty sad. A cautionary tale. And I agree - Life is short, and I don’t think most people want to look back on their sex life and say “It was kind of mediocre”, or worse.

I don’t think I implied that the woman in the first paragraph is any of the things you mentioned. She and her husband are fairly well matched. Nobody responded to that first situation, but I see it as quite a lot like the On Edge family approach. Not a schedule, but another way to keep sex from being a battle of the sexes type of deal. Even if one of you is not really in the mood at first, you can recognize that afterward, you’re always glad you did. And you kind of assume rejection is for the poor suckers in the single scene, and once you are married it’s kind of a sure thing.


:slight_smile: About me living in Austria. I think you are confused about how trolling works. Not only is Orion a chick, but he has been married for 22 years, lives in California, and has never smoked anything.

funny, Pat - I hear the opposite. must be my age, but the group i am around, i hear that the wives are bugging the hubbies for sex and they dont get any.

and within the same group, i hear the men talking about how the wives never give them any.

what I think?

is that the men would like nothing more than a slutty wife who lives for it, wants it in the car, in the shower, and goes after them, pawing at them like they are golden gods.

and the wimmenz want romantic, luvey duvey kinda mood enhancing relationships, whereby the will succomb to sex.

they are completely at odds with one another.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

:slight_smile: About me living in Austria. I think you are confused about how trolling works. Not only is Orion a chick, but he has been married for 22 years, lives in California, and has never smoked anything.

[/quote]

Lies.

Half of the time we dont really know who is the real us.

Technically, all the time, but it alternates, depending on who is in control at that time.

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
The biggest mistake a man can do is get comfortable and stop being dominant.
[/quote]

I think this is the most important thing that any of the younger guys need to pick up on. I’ve lost a relationship or 2 because I have gotten comfortable and let things get out of hand. It’s hard to re-establish that dynamic as typically once you have given up your hand you cannot get it back.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Recently, this friend told me that her husband pulled her aside one day and said something like “We’re in our forties now, and we’ve missed out on a lot of good times. Those years are gone, and we can never get them back. Part of me really resents you. It could have been a lot better.” OUCH - Not something you want your life partner to say to you. As in “Hey, you are my person. I trusted you to want to be with me, and to meet these basic emotional/ physical needs, and it could have made US a lot better and you blew it.”

      [/quote]

Oh god, that is beautiful. Good for him.

Not to be a dick, but unless that dude is a total d-bag and super fat and gross, he totally just dropped a bomb of all bombs and pwned her…

[quote]Edgy wrote:
funny, Pat - I hear the opposite. must be my age, but the group i am around, i hear that the wives are bugging the hubbies for sex and they dont get any.

and within the same group, i hear the men talking about how the wives never give them any.

what I think?

is that the men would like nothing more than a slutty wife who lives for it, wants it in the car, in the shower, and goes after them, pawing at them like they are golden gods.

and the wimmenz want romantic, luvey duvey kinda mood enhancing relationships, whereby the will succomb to sex.

they are completely at odds with one another.[/quote]
That is actually pretty smart for a Viking

I maybe impressed tomorrow

shoot - a shiny rock would impress a hillbilly, from what i understand.

[quote]Edgy wrote:
shoot - a shiny rock would impress a hillbilly, from what i understand.[/quote]
Or a certain GIF that is continually playing on my G+

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
shoot - a shiny rock would impress a hillbilly, from what i understand.[/quote]
Or a certain GIF that is continually playing on my G+[/quote]

who luvz you baby?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Recently, this friend told me that her husband pulled her aside one day and said something like “We’re in our forties now, and we’ve missed out on a lot of good times. Those years are gone, and we can never get them back. Part of me really resents you. It could have been a lot better.” OUCH - Not something you want your life partner to say to you. As in “Hey, you are my person. I trusted you to want to be with me, and to meet these basic emotional/ physical needs, and it could have made US a lot better and you blew it.”

    [/quote]

Oh god, that is beautiful. Good for him.

Not to be a dick, but unless that dude is a total d-bag and super fat and gross, he totally just dropped a bomb of all bombs and pwned her…

[/quote]

Hey Beans. I’m having a good hair day today, you? :slight_smile:

Yeah, she was stunned. This person has been a good friend of my husband’s since college, and he’s one of the most laid-back, nicest people you’d meet. Not fat, or a any of the things you mentioned. More of a quiet, man’s man type of guy. She’s been very spoiled in terms of him providing for her financially. They have a really nice life in other respects. It would have been better if he’d said that to her about 15 years ago, but better late than never. It did get her attention, and she told me they were trying to fix it.

Some things in life we can’t do much about, but other things are certainly a choice.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Soooooo…

Imma go build a time maschine and become 19 again?[/quote]
Hahaha. You definitely should envy him I guess is what he means. Fuck you he’s got your knowledge now you old bastard![/quote]

Alpha

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
It did get her attention, and she told me they were trying to fix it.

Some things in life we can’t do much about, but other things are certainly a choice.
[/quote]

“Trying to fix it” is code for not fixing it. This type of thing is not something one tries to fix. As Yoda would say “There is do or do not, there is no try”.

so.

Orion is not married, espouses a lifestyle akin to misogyny and is flayed by his peers on TN.

Edgy has been married for 22 years, agrees with 99.9% of what Orion states, yet is adored by the masses.

must be cause I work out~(cue ‘I’m sexy and I know it’)

[quote]Edgy wrote:
so.

Orion is not married, espouses a lifestyle akin to misogyny and is flayed by his peers on TN.

Edgy has been married for 22 years, agrees with 99.9% of what Orion states, yet is adored by the masses.

must be cause I work out~(cue ‘I’m sexy and I know it’)[/quote]
Your a ginger,

people fear for their souls

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
The biggest mistake a man can do is get comfortable and stop being dominant.
[/quote]

I think this is the most important thing that any of the younger guys need to pick up on. I’ve lost a relationship or 2 because I have gotten comfortable and let things get out of hand. It’s hard to re-establish that dynamic as typically once you have given up your hand you cannot get it back.[/quote]
In a world where casual sex is easy to come by, what exactly does a woman offer me nowadays? Companionship, you can have friends, sex can get that elsewhere too. it just seems like such a headache keeping a woman nowadays, what’s the point?

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
In a world where casual sex is easy to come by, what exactly does a woman offer me nowadays? Companionship, you can have friends, sex can get that elsewhere too. it just seems like such a headache keeping a woman nowadays, what’s the point?[/quote]
Well I mean it is really nice having a female companion who genuinely cares for you isn’t it? Although I can see what you mean about headaches. I’m in a bit of the cynical place right now where I’m wondering if there are women out there who don’t require me to constantly play mind games and jump through hoops to keep them satisfied. It’s exhausting.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
In a world where casual sex is easy to come by, what exactly does a woman offer me nowadays? Companionship, you can have friends, sex can get that elsewhere too. it just seems like such a headache keeping a woman nowadays, what’s the point?[/quote]
Well I mean it is really nice having a female companion who genuinely cares for you isn’t it? Although I can see what you mean about headaches. I’m in a bit of the cynical place right now where I’m wondering if there are women out there who don’t require me to constantly play mind games and jump through hoops to keep them satisfied. It’s exhausting.[/quote]
people tell me south america, eastern europe and most of asia is better

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
About dominance - How about this scenario? This is from my BFF. She has taken a very pragmatic approach, and I think it’s fairly egalitarian. This is a marriage of about 10 years. She decided that, baring physical illness, she would never say no. Never. And her husband does the same for her. He never tells her no. I asked her how they decided on this strategy, and her reasons were that she noticed that sex becomes a point of contention in a lot of marriages, so she decided to try to avoid that in her own. Purely pragmatic. And funny, because there isn’t necessarily a lot of seduction going on. Either can just say, “You want to?” and the other person will say “Sure.” Now, it’s not entirely equal because her husband still initiates sex more often. Maybe you all can read that as he’s still dominant. He is dominant in a lot of other ways, so maybe his need to dominate is met. Does this scenario work for you guys?

As an aside, I asked her what she thought about relationships where the woman initiates sex most often, or nearly all the time. She said she thinks that usually happens as a result of the man being rejected enough so he stops trying, and takes the “Getting rejected is not working, so I guess she can ask me approach.” I’ve only seen that in one other friend, but I had to agree. In that situation, the man got turned down nearly all the time, so he finally just stopped asking. And so sex slowed down for them to about once or twice a month, when she would finally ask him. Not sexless, but less than ideal for most people. Recently, this friend told me that her husband pulled her aside one day and said something like “We’re in our forties now, and we’ve missed out on a lot of good times. Those years are gone, and we can never get them back. Part of me really resents you. It could have been a lot better.” OUCH - Not something you want your life partner to say to you. As in “Hey, you are my person. I trusted you to want to be with me, and to meet these basic emotional/ physical needs, and it could have made US a lot better and you blew it.”

EDIT: I think I’ve run out of good stories, and am at the end of my insight on this topic. I’m a school psychologist, not a Marriage counselor :). Soo, not the expert, but I do think all the layers of this in terms of the bio-chemistry, as well as the ways different people handle intimacy in their long term relationships is interesting. Some open discussion can be good. I often learn something. Thanks everybody for such thoughtful and frank responses.
[/quote]

This has been kind of a pet peeve of mine about women for a looong time. I hear them talk at parties with pride about how much they reject sex and how they are constantly wanted. For me it allowed me to develop an iron will. A took passive aggressive approach. If I heard this kind of shit, I would avoid sex like the plague. I figured if it’s such a hassle, fuck it. Far be it from me to be a hassle. Don’t like sex? Fine we won’t have it. No biggie. So next time you talk to your friends you can tell them that you haven’t been bothered and life is good.

If girls don’t like sex so much, why don’t they just stay virgins? They talk like it’s annoying and such a pain. Nobody is forcing you.

One thing I realized is that girls take it waaay more personal if you turn them down for sex than the opposite. Well, if you don’t want to be turned down, then don’t complain that people want to fuck you. I don’t like a challenge, it doesn’t turn me on, it doesn’t make me try harder, it does nothing but piss me off. I will never give chase. Life’s to short for that.
[/quote]

Pat, I was talking about two very different situations here. I’m not defending the person in paragraph B, quite the opposite. That situation is pretty sad. A cautionary tale. And I agree - Life is short, and I don’t think most people want to look back on their sex life and say “It was kind of mediocre”, or worse.
[/quote]
I wasn’t talking about you. I was commenting on the article and the general attitude of a lot of women in their arrogance about men, particularly their husbands wanting to have sex with them as if it’s such a bother.

It’s never a sure thing. I have seen it time and time again where the women brag about being bothered by the sexual advances of their husbands and some such nonsense and how giving it up is tantamount to taking one for England. I can’t put my finger on what really drives me nuts about it. I just think it’s rude. Not only to turn the poor bastard down time and time again, but then to out it to their friends making the poor sap look like a chump. I just think it’s wrong. If the woman doesn’t like sex or is so bothered by it, she should dump the poor guy and let him find someone who share his interests in the bedroom.
It’s a plain hardcore fact, sex is extremely important to the health of a marriage. It seems that fact is down played like it’s an accessory. It’s not. It can make or break a marriage and humiliating somebody to their friends for wanting to have sex with them is a detrimental to the marriage. It’s one thing to have sexual issues within the context of the marriage, but to then have the women brag about how bothered they are by it and what a sacrifice it is for them to have it will cause major issues in the marriage. It’s treated like a joke by a lot of women, but it hurts the man when they do it.
I also find that that woman who brag about being bothered by their husbands wanting to have sex with them are also much more open to having an affair.
The fact that your husband wants to have sex with you is a compliment. Men aren’t the ‘fuck anything that moves’ pigs that we are made out to be often. We are actually picky. It seems like the veneer of the attitude ‘players’ have towards sex is often projected across all men. It’s also an attitude portrayed by the media.
I donno, I just think it’s wrong.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
In a world where casual sex is easy to come by, what exactly does a woman offer me nowadays? Companionship, you can have friends, sex can get that elsewhere too. it just seems like such a headache keeping a woman nowadays, what’s the point?[/quote]
Well I mean it is really nice having a female companion who genuinely cares for you isn’t it? Although I can see what you mean about headaches. I’m in a bit of the cynical place right now where I’m wondering if there are women out there who don’t require me to constantly play mind games and jump through hoops to keep them satisfied. It’s exhausting.[/quote]

Here’s my theory: romantic relationships are by definition feminine. The skills needed (empathy, compassion, the ability to both recognize one’s feelings and then be able to communicate them) are not highly valued in men outside of romantic relationships, are not generally taught to boys, and are “turned off” in the womb by a rush of testosterone in the eighth week. Brain cells in the male fetuses brains communication centers are killed of and cells in the sex and aggression centers are developed.

No wonder it’s exhausting. It’s like walking into class one day and finding out that there is a test over a subject you’re unfamiliar with and all questions are in a foreign language you don’t know. And, if by sheer force of will and a bit of luck, you do figure out what the subject is and what the question is asking, you’re required to answer in an unknown language as well.

As someone who has had a few long-term relationships, I would recommend developing those areas that are needed for a romantic relationship. Otherwise, you’re like the tourist wandering around France pissing and moaning that everyone speaks French.

  • Not Csulli specifically, I just used his post as a jumping-off point.