I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum so hopefully someone can explain this to me. For the last couple of years I have concentrated on compound exercises. High weight, low reps. Gotten stronger. So far so good. But I keep hearing ‘forget isolation exercise if you want big arms’. Big arms isn’t my only goal, but compound exercises only seem to increasingly make my torso, back and upper thighs bigger. Although I respect them, I don’t want to look like some Olympic lifters-huge torsos and little arms. Has anyone else has this problem? Should I go back to isolation exercises for my lagging areas? I am not convinced you can just get bigger biceps for example from rowing. My lats just get bigger. Do other people here use a dedicated arm day most of the time? Thanks, and sorry gor the long post.
I kinda agree with you. Nice arms always look good. I use mostly power movements but will throw in a EDT (two 15 minute PR ZONEs) one a week for my arms. This really seemed to help and that way i get the best of both worlds.
Wayne.
Well, I actually don’t have a dedicated arm day (not that I have huge arms, but they’re not bad). I used to do a lot of isolation arm movements, but in my case I experienced more arm size growth when I cut those out of my program. I’ve recently started curling again, and though I’ve found that I can’’ actually curl the weight I used to, the size of my arms is still bigger, I suppose because I’ve had more time and energy to dedicate to tri building compound movements.
Here’s my point, everyone’s different. Maybe your body will respond better with isolation movements included. Or maybe you just need to change it up - you know, don’t do isolation for a while, then add it back in, then change the set/rep scheme, then change the exercises, etc.
That’s sort of my approach, although I focus more on strength than size,
JMB
Warning, Condescending jerk mode status = on
If I read your post right, you say you have spent a few years with compound movements, and your arms are lacking. So what you are asking is if you should keep doing the same thing you have been and expect a different result.
Well, the answer is no. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing repeatedly and expect a different result. (learned that from this site)
Condescending jerk mode status = off
However, I don’t think you should abandon compound movements for isolation. Just decide that for the next few months, pick a part, and make it your goal. If you have to drop the focus on your compound movements then do so. Once your arms catch up a little, get back to focusing on the big moves.
Now, to steal someone else’s wisdom. I cannot remember who said this, but I didn’t come up with it. Do not drop the squat. Squat on the day you train your arms. Train your arms after you squat because squatting gets the most testosterone flowing. It will help your arms grow.
I have been doing basically all compound exercises for the last couple of years, but I have always mixed them up. Singels, 5x5, 3x5, and the exercises themselves. Say concentrating on weighted dips, then later close grip bench. I have always been more concerned about strength than size, but I just think my arms should be bigger for my size. In any case, I will definitely not stop squatting. I have come too far in that to quit that. Perhaps a 3 day split like this:
Day 1
arms- 2 biceps exercises, 2 ticeps exercies and 2-3 forearms exercieses
rep range 8-12
Day 2
lower body- squat and deads-low reps as usual plus some unilateral stuff in the 8-12 range. say 4-5 exercises all told.
Day 3
upper body strength- 1 horizontal push, 1 horizontal pull, 1 vertical push, 1 vertical pull say 4x5
Does this look like a good split for my goals of getting bigger arms while getting stronger? Thanks again
if i have time and i feel like i can hit them hard i do isolation movements at the end of my routine. The pump in the arms that i get from doing heavy chinups bw+90 and dips bw+115 is phenomenal. You said that you were using heavy weights but try doing some all out sets where all your muscle groups have to work so you can complete the lift. It seems like a lot of people, not pointing to any one in this particular thread, think that they are doing high intensity when in actuality they are not. I noticed this when i analyzed my routines using that irontrainer free-be software trail. It turns out that i was sometimes just barely using 80% intensity and even then my volume was too low. anyways just keep hitting it hard, use variety, and eat a proper diet for your goals. laters pk
From what I see, I don’t think it’s the method, it’s the volume.
You’ve been doing 5x5 and 3x5 with heavy weights. If you want to use heavy weights and also increase muscle size, you will need high volume.
So I don’t think you need to have a separate arm day or resort to lower weight and higher reps, I think the key is getting more volume.
Check out Chad Waterbury’s articles, “The Single’s Club” and ABBH. Both have much higher volume than you’ve been accustomed to doing. I think you will get the extra arm size you want without having to resort to other methods.
I agree with those who are telling you to change what you are doing if it is not giving you the desired result!
My bicep routine includes Chin-ups, that’s it! My arms measure 17 1/2". On occasion I will throw in a set of Barbell curls, but that is rare.
Whatever you do don’t just blindly follow the latest “guru.” They are often times simply trying to fill up space on a web site, or magazine. I know that sounds harsh, but let’s get real they have so many articles to write and only so much that they can talk about. “Okay gang today I am going to teach you all about the double dip intensive mega set.” Yawn!
Experiment for yourself! Find out what works for you. For me it makes sense to build my lats, and many other muscles while I am working my biceps. Therefore, Chins fill my need.
You may find that something else works better for you.
Take care,
Zeb
I’ve found that constantly changing things up (sets, reps, tempo, exercise) get the best results when it comes to arms. At least for me, experimenting is easier with arms than with other bodyparts if simply for the fact that there are so many variables you can play with, in terms of different angles, leverage, apparatuses, etc, that you can’t do with other muscles. Some of my favorite bicep exercises I found just by taking more common movements and altering them slightly.
That’s my 2 cents, and oh yeah, don’t neglect forearms. Big upper arms look silly paired with spindly forearms.
DB
Thanks for the replies. Does the Westside for Skinny Bastards seem like it has enough volume while concentrating on big lifts? I like the fact that its a 3 day split. No worry about the forearms, that is the portion of my arms that I want to grow the most. ABBH sounds great too, but I find I can only get into the gym 3 days a week with my schedule.
Westside for Skinny Bastards is a fantastic program, and you can make wonderful gains in strength and size. If you go with that program, I would make sure that you do plenty of sets on your max lifts as you work up to your max sets. This way, you’ll build up enough volume in the bench or squat (or other ME exercise) to promote hypertrophy of the arms.
Also, check Joe’s site, as he wrote a nice forearm training routine in his Q&A section.
As for CW’s ABBH, it’s another great program and will definitely help with size and strength. You could still do this on a three-day-a-week training program on a 7/8 day rotation. For example, do day 1 on Monday, day 2 on Wednesday, day 3 on Friday and day 4 on the following Monday. Then you start over on Wed with day 1.
In fact, you may want to give ABBH a try for the three weeks as suggested and then go into Westside for Skinny Bastards after that.
Good luck!
Some people do fine with compound movements alone. I used to recommend cutting isolation movements entirely, but not these days.
I’ve discovered I’m not in that camp; if I want arm size, I have to isolate, and do it with intensity! They’ve adapted to pullup and dip movements, and I have only so many variations of the two I can use.
DI
Thanks again for the replies. I think I will go with Westside Skinny program for now and see how it works. The third day appears to have some direct arm work as well so I should get the best of both worlds. Thanks for the help guys.
Brads, also in my case the torso is more developed (neither big nor little)in comparison to arms. For the last 7 years I’ve been using only compounds lifts, no arms dedicated day. I’m now using a 3 days/week split. For one workout/week, I’m using CT’s “Shoulder program” wich presents after a compound lift a couple of isolation exercises.
IT’S EFFECTIVE ! Concerning arms,in CT’s
OVT, there is an arm day with some isolation exercises. Give it a try.
Anyway even not using an arm dedicated day choosing these 4 exercises:
Rope pulls, chins,dips,close grip bench presses, and using a proper bulking diet the arms should grow.
Last example are ZEB’s arms. Zeb has huge arms for his relatively low bodyweight. His secrets should be:
TONS of CHINS
LOW BODY FAT.
luca,
thanks for the tips. I will check out CT stuff again as well. Whem you say rope pulls, I assume you mean to the neck?
The key, as I’m sure some others have said, is to do “all of the above.” Compund exercises are an excellent foundation for any routine, and you certainly shouldn’t abandon them. And, if your goal is purely strength and powerlifting, then clearly, isolation work doesn’t have much use for you.
But for the majority of us who are looking for aesthetics as well as strength, I think isolation work is an important part of any routine. Some people are naturals and their arms grow with just compound work… for the rest of us, I strongly reccommend adding in some isolation work.
Personally I like to work biceps with back, and triceps with chest. In both cases the compound work for the larger muscle group (deadlifts, bench, etc) hits the arms secondarily. Then I move on to isolation work on the arms and finish the job. I typically only do 3 exercises each for my bis and tris.
BradS, the “rope pull” is suggested by Chad Waterbury" in a “Branding Iron” Column. The movement is not to the neck.Chad writes:
“For those of you unfamiliar with this exercise, imagine that a boatload of lovely lasses are getting ready to dock on the California shores. They throw you a rope and shout out, “Pull us in, big daddy!” You plop yourself down on the deck with your feet secured and facing the boat; then you grab the rope with your right hand and begin alternating the row movement with each arm. It?s that simple.” It follows a nice photo of Patricia pulling a big jeep.
I believe that this exercise is highly effective for biceps and forearms. The photo shows a movement performed outside. I have no idea how to perform it in a gym.
Any ideas ?
Luca
perhaps a stab in the dark, but perhaps with a low pulley? or even the cable row? at least you can get a seating position with your legs secured… ?
Maybe the seated cable row with the rope attachment usually used for tricep extensions. Grabbing both ends of the rope with one hand and pullling one arm at a time? Anyone else have an idea?