Are People Here Not Trying Very Hard?

Training Bodybuilding
805

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level (but imo it’s, if you know how, much easier to get these than even a 450 lb bench, though you’re unlikely to ever get much stronger than that at DB curling unless you start turning them into oly lifts… Now hammer curls and esp pinwheels allow for more weight… Dunno about bar curls, few really huge guys still do them due to wrist issues etc… I don’t do them either… And most really big curls you see are by guys with mediocre arms for their size who do them like a reverse-grip hang clean…).

Curls are imo also not as affected by height and bw as other lifts… I’ve seen guys curl the 90’s at 220 lb bodyweight at 5’9 or so, and their arms looked it. Imo they’re also one area where natties can possibly hold their own against guys on gear, strength wise in terms of what can ultimately be achieved (just going by observation in that case).

10-50(or a lil more) are beginner level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

Not always so black and white, but just to give you an idea. Talking curls being first exercise for biceps in that session.

[/quote]

Obviously everyone is different but from what you’ve seen at what strength level have you really seen arm growth take off?

I have arms just over 16inches and have been able to alt db curl 50lb dbs for 3 reps.

EDIT: I really want to hit 17 inches before the summer.

806

[quote]siouxperman wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
A 65 dumbbell curl is VERY good! Actually it’s EXCELLENT considering it takes huge and strong arms to do that. [/quote]

It takes huge arms? My 140lb high school wrestling coach curled 70s and looked like a twig. WTF planet you from where a 65lb curl is excellent? You ever been to a gym before?[/quote]

So this means your buddy can curl more than 135 with a barbell at 140.

Nope, I’ve never been to a gym before.

I only have 4500 posts to TALK about exercise and nutrition.

Oh, by the way, how’s your buck-fifty buddy’s form with the 140+ curl at his weight?

807

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

[/quote]

Ceph: Have you ever been to a gym?!

808

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level (but imo it’s, if you know how, much easier to get these than even a 450 lb bench, though you’re unlikely to ever get much stronger than that at DB curling unless you start turning them into oly lifts… Now hammer curls and esp pinwheels allow for more weight… Dunno about bar curls, few really huge guys still do them due to wrist issues etc… I don’t do them either… And most really big curls you see are by guys with mediocre arms for their size who do them like a reverse-grip hang clean…).

Curls are imo also not as affected by height and bw as other lifts… I’ve seen guys curl the 90’s at 220 lb bodyweight at 5’9 or so, and their arms looked it. Imo they’re also one area where natties can possibly hold their own against guys on gear, strength wise in terms of what can ultimately be achieved (just going by observation in that case).

10-50(or a lil more) are beginner level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

Not always so black and white, but just to give you an idea. Talking curls being first exercise for biceps in that session.

[/quote]

Obviously everyone is different but from what you’ve seen at what strength level have you really seen arm growth take off?

I have arms just over 16inches and have been able to alt db curl 50lb dbs for 3 reps.

EDIT: I really want to hit 17 inches before the summer.[/quote]

TBH that’s only 22.5 Kg or so. I was alt. curling those with 15.5 inch arms (was neglecting my tris back then though) for 6 reps per side or so with barely any body English…
So I’d say the weight pretty much fits your arm size (how tall are you?)

Now you might make 17 inches with no increase in your curl simply by getting bigger tris, it’s hard to say man.

Just keep at it. Getting to the 65’s isn’t all that hard and you’ll likely be at 17.5 or so by then. All a matter of your bi-tri-brachialis balance.

809

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

[/quote]

Ceph: Have you ever been to a gym?!

[/quote]

Most people in gyms are somewhere in the beginner stage, or low-intermediates at best…
And do take into consideration whether someone has been doing back work and esp. other bi exercises before his alt. curls (i.e. Ronnie in cost of redemption… And he’s doing them for high reps too).

Finally, not everyone approaches this from a powerbuilding point of view (if you want to call it that)… Some guys work via increasing tonnage slightly rather than focusing on top weights for example… You can get big arms that way (not so much triceps imo)

Still, 80’s and more are entirely achievable for most, much easier than really large compound exercise numbers imo. You may have to train them differently than your big exercises though…

T-Nation isn’t exactly iso exercise capital haha… For all the focus on the big 3 and oly lifts, it seems people just don’t know how to get strong on small stuff at all…

810

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level (but imo it’s, if you know how, much easier to get these than even a 450 lb bench, though you’re unlikely to ever get much stronger than that at DB curling unless you start turning them into oly lifts… Now hammer curls and esp pinwheels allow for more weight… Dunno about bar curls, few really huge guys still do them due to wrist issues etc… I don’t do them either… And most really big curls you see are by guys with mediocre arms for their size who do them like a reverse-grip hang clean…).

Curls are imo also not as affected by height and bw as other lifts… I’ve seen guys curl the 90’s at 220 lb bodyweight at 5’9 or so, and their arms looked it. Imo they’re also one area where natties can possibly hold their own against guys on gear, strength wise in terms of what can ultimately be achieved (just going by observation in that case).

10-50(or a lil more) are beginner level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

Not always so black and white, but just to give you an idea. Talking curls being first exercise for biceps in that session.

[/quote]

Obviously everyone is different but from what you’ve seen at what strength level have you really seen arm growth take off?

I have arms just over 16inches and have been able to alt db curl 50lb dbs for 3 reps.

EDIT: I really want to hit 17 inches before the summer.[/quote]

TBH that’s only 22.5 Kg or so. I was alt. curling those with 15.5 inch arms (was neglecting my tris back then though) for 6 reps per side or so with barely any body English…
So I’d say the weight pretty much fits your arm size (how tall are you?)

Now you might make 17 inches with no increase in your curl simply by getting bigger tris, it’s hard to say man.

Just keep at it. Getting to the 65’s isn’t all that hard and you’ll likely be at 17.5 or so by then. All a matter of your bi-tri-brachialis balance.

[/quote]

I sent you a PM

811

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]siouxperman wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
A 65 dumbbell curl is VERY good! Actually it’s EXCELLENT considering it takes huge and strong arms to do that. [/quote]

It takes huge arms? My 140lb high school wrestling coach curled 70s and looked like a twig. WTF planet you from where a 65lb curl is excellent? You ever been to a gym before?[/quote]

So this means your buddy can curl more than 135 with a barbell at 140.

Nope, I’ve never been to a gym before.

I only have 4500 posts to TALK about exercise and nutrition.

Oh, by the way, how’s your buck-fifty buddy’s form with the 140+ curl at his weight? [/quote]

I don’t know if his story is true obviously… Check out Fattyfat’s numbers though, he was doing 220 lb curls weighing approximately that and not even lean… He went about it a different way than I would go programming-wise, but hey… People here just aren’t used to moving big weight on small exercises.

FWIW I could not do that at 220 at all.

Modok also is/was very strong there, he reached 20 inch arms and the accompanying curling strength weighing much, much less than I did when I reached that arm size, even though he’s the same height. His way of training them allowed for much faster progress… Wish I’d known about that back then… I was still training my arms the same way as everything else… They tend to grow fairly proportionately (also taking into account genetics) then, but unless you have super-arm genetics, you will have to gain proportionately more weight to get the same arm size increase…

812

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level (but imo it’s, if you know how, much easier to get these than even a 450 lb bench, though you’re unlikely to ever get much stronger than that at DB curling unless you start turning them into oly lifts… Now hammer curls and esp pinwheels allow for more weight… Dunno about bar curls, few really huge guys still do them due to wrist issues etc… I don’t do them either… And most really big curls you see are by guys with mediocre arms for their size who do them like a reverse-grip hang clean…).

Curls are imo also not as affected by height and bw as other lifts… I’ve seen guys curl the 90’s at 220 lb bodyweight at 5’9 or so, and their arms looked it. Imo they’re also one area where natties can possibly hold their own against guys on gear, strength wise in terms of what can ultimately be achieved (just going by observation in that case).

10-50(or a lil more) are beginner level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

Not always so black and white, but just to give you an idea. Talking curls being first exercise for biceps in that session.

[/quote]

Obviously everyone is different but from what you’ve seen at what strength level have you really seen arm growth take off?

I have arms just over 16inches and have been able to alt db curl 50lb dbs for 3 reps.

EDIT: I really want to hit 17 inches before the summer.[/quote]

TBH that’s only 22.5 Kg or so. I was alt. curling those with 15.5 inch arms (was neglecting my tris back then though) for 6 reps per side or so with barely any body English…
So I’d say the weight pretty much fits your arm size (how tall are you?)

Now you might make 17 inches with no increase in your curl simply by getting bigger tris, it’s hard to say man.

Just keep at it. Getting to the 65’s isn’t all that hard and you’ll likely be at 17.5 or so by then. All a matter of your bi-tri-brachialis balance.

[/quote]

I sent you a PM[/quote]

Sorry man, I can’t answer pm’s so I just turned them off (people end up thinking I don’t respond on purpose). Send me a mail… Ask doubleduce or ajweins etc for my mail address… I can’t post it anymore apparently, there’s some policy against that here or something.

[/quote]

NP

813

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

[/quote]

Ceph: Have you ever been to a gym?!

[/quote]

Most people in gyms are somewhere in the beginner stage, or low-intermediates at best…
And do take into consideration whether someone has been doing back work and esp. other bi exercises before his alt. curls (i.e. Ronnie in cost of redemption… And he’s doing them for high reps too).

Finally, not everyone approaches this from a powerbuilding point of view (if you want to call it that)… Some guys work via increasing tonnage slightly rather than focusing on top weights for example… You can get big arms that way (not so much triceps imo)

Still, 80’s and more are entirely achievable for most, much easier than really large compound exercise numbers imo. You may have to train them differently than your big exercises though…

T-Nation isn’t exactly iso exercise capital haha… For all the focus on the big 3 and oly lifts, it seems people just don’t know how to get strong on small stuff at all…
[/quote]

I was joking around and adding to the sarcasm that I dished out to whomever asked me if I’ve ever been to a gym because I said that curling with 65s is very good.

Actually, few people can do that with alright form. I really haven’t even seen pretty big guys do more than that without a ton - and I mean a TON - of body English.

814

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

[/quote]

Ceph: Have you ever been to a gym?!

[/quote]

Most people in gyms are somewhere in the beginner stage, or low-intermediates at best…
And do take into consideration whether someone has been doing back work and esp. other bi exercises before his alt. curls (i.e. Ronnie in cost of redemption… And he’s doing them for high reps too).

Finally, not everyone approaches this from a powerbuilding point of view (if you want to call it that)… Some guys work via increasing tonnage slightly rather than focusing on top weights for example… You can get big arms that way (not so much triceps imo)

Still, 80’s and more are entirely achievable for most, much easier than really large compound exercise numbers imo. You may have to train them differently than your big exercises though…

T-Nation isn’t exactly iso exercise capital haha… For all the focus on the big 3 and oly lifts, it seems people just don’t know how to get strong on small stuff at all…
[/quote]

I was joking around and adding to the sarcasm that I dished out to whomever asked me if I’ve ever been to a gym because I said that curling with 65s is very good.

Actually, few people can do that with alright form. I really haven’t even seen pretty big guys do more than that without a ton - and I mean a TON - of body English. [/quote]

Yeah, as I said, it’s definitely not black and white… And how you train the curl programming-wise etc makes a huge difference…

For the OP’s size, the 65’s are definitely unexpected.

815

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

[/quote]

Ceph: Have you ever been to a gym?!

[/quote]

Most people in gyms are somewhere in the beginner stage, or low-intermediates at best…
And do take into consideration whether someone has been doing back work and esp. other bi exercises before his alt. curls (i.e. Ronnie in cost of redemption… And he’s doing them for high reps too).

Finally, not everyone approaches this from a powerbuilding point of view (if you want to call it that)… Some guys work via increasing tonnage slightly rather than focusing on top weights for example… You can get big arms that way (not so much triceps imo)

Still, 80’s and more are entirely achievable for most, much easier than really large compound exercise numbers imo. You may have to train them differently than your big exercises though…

T-Nation isn’t exactly iso exercise capital haha… For all the focus on the big 3 and oly lifts, it seems people just don’t know how to get strong on small stuff at all…
[/quote]

I was joking around and adding to the sarcasm that I dished out to whomever asked me if I’ve ever been to a gym because I said that curling with 65s is very good.

Actually, few people can do that with alright form. I really haven’t even seen pretty big guys do more than that without a ton - and I mean a TON - of body English. [/quote]

Yeah, as I said, it’s definitely not black and white… And how you train the curl programming-wise etc makes a huge difference…

For the OP’s size, the 65’s are definitely unexpected.

[/quote]

I put my email in my hub, perhaps you could shoot me an email?

816

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
90-100 lb alt. curls are elite level.

60-80 standing alt. db are intermediate imo.

[/quote]

Ceph: Have you ever been to a gym?!

[/quote]

Most people in gyms are somewhere in the beginner stage, or low-intermediates at best…
And do take into consideration whether someone has been doing back work and esp. other bi exercises before his alt. curls (i.e. Ronnie in cost of redemption… And he’s doing them for high reps too).

Finally, not everyone approaches this from a powerbuilding point of view (if you want to call it that)… Some guys work via increasing tonnage slightly rather than focusing on top weights for example… You can get big arms that way (not so much triceps imo)

Still, 80’s and more are entirely achievable for most, much easier than really large compound exercise numbers imo. You may have to train them differently than your big exercises though…

T-Nation isn’t exactly iso exercise capital haha… For all the focus on the big 3 and oly lifts, it seems people just don’t know how to get strong on small stuff at all…
[/quote]

I was joking around and adding to the sarcasm that I dished out to whomever asked me if I’ve ever been to a gym because I said that curling with 65s is very good.

Actually, few people can do that with alright form. I really haven’t even seen pretty big guys do more than that without a ton - and I mean a TON - of body English. [/quote]

Yeah, as I said, it’s definitely not black and white… And how you train the curl programming-wise etc makes a huge difference…

For the OP’s size, the 65’s are definitely unexpected.

[/quote]

I put my email in my hub, perhaps you could shoot me an email?[/quote]

Ok.

817

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]siouxperman wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
A 65 dumbbell curl is VERY good! Actually it’s EXCELLENT considering it takes huge and strong arms to do that. [/quote]

It takes huge arms? My 140lb high school wrestling coach curled 70s and looked like a twig. WTF planet you from where a 65lb curl is excellent? You ever been to a gym before?[/quote]

So this means your buddy can curl more than 135 with a barbell at 140.

Nope, I’ve never been to a gym before.

I only have 4500 posts to TALK about exercise and nutrition.

Oh, by the way, how’s your buck-fifty buddy’s form with the 140+ curl at his weight? [/quote]

Not buddy, coach. Dunno, never saw him do a BB curls. But yeah, I saw him do 70s on multiple occasions. A 65 lb dumbbell curl is not that impressive, but as I said, it’s above average. CC makes a good point about being able to increase poundages on curl fairly easily. Percentage wise, you can make big jumps on curls way faster than big compound lifts. More of a ceiling though.

818

I have 15-15.5 in arms (depending on whether they’re pumped or not), train the hell out of my tris and do back work before I curl and I can ramp up to 5/side alt. curl easy (never went for rep max b/c I never had the need and don’t wanna take away from the powerlifts recovery wise). I’m 190 and 5’10". I’m not trying to get big arms, just keep elbow, bicep, and wrist tendonitus away from doing all the powerlifts. I think my arms would explode if I didn’t curl at least once a week lol.

I’ve had 16.5 in. arms at 175 before, but I found it takes a lot of curl volume and some chin ups to appreciably increase my arm size. I’m actually a little leaner than I was then and couldn’t curl as much weight then either but had a much greater tolerance to curl volume.

819

@ Raj

I can’t send pm’s. Try DD or bug. Sorry.

820

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]siouxperman wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[/quote]

quote]

[/quote]

Modok also is/was very strong there, he reached 20 inch arms and the accompanying curling strength weighing much, much less than I did when I reached that arm size, even though he’s the same height. His way of training them allowed for much faster progress… Wish I’d known about that back then… I was still training my arms the same way as everything else… They tend to grow fairly proportionately (also taking into account genetics) then, but unless you have super-arm genetics, you will have to gain proportionately more weight to get the same arm size increase…

[/quote]

C_C, I was just wondering what you meant when you talked about MODOK’s style of training arms. Are you referring to the BBB rep ranges(5/10/15)? Or that he trains them more often? I remember him saying for arm specialization, do 5/10/15 reps to falure 3 times a week. Thanks in advance C_C.

821

[quote]novocaine wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Holy Crap! I’ve seen the older vids, but that hurt my spine just watching it! It really is proof of the randomness of the cosmic dice (or possibly some divine power) that this guy hasn’t crippled himself by now. I train damn carefully and my joints are f-cking killin’ me -lol.

S[/quote]

He isn’t 30 yet. I was invincible too.

I doubt that guy will be walking without a cane by the age of 40.[/quote]
i’m 24, already injured myself deadlifting twice by losing focus and form, on pussy weights. if i tried weasel-form i would never walk again. blame genetics…

also, epic thread.[/quote]

Yet another fail use of the word epic. Wonderful.

822

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:

[quote]novocaine wrote:
also, epic thread.[/quote]

Yet another fail use of the word epic. Wonderful.[/quote]
well, you could consider it a lengthy narrative, and a tale full of heroism…

823

Am14g08, you’re not giving up on this are you?

824

Fixing / tightening up form on curls will REALLY affect numbers and the way it will cause your muscles to grow. I learned this the hard way after spending more time than I care to admit throwing weight around thinking I was the shit. I now have the shitty arms to prove it.