Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
661

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Sure, you started with splits, but if you’d started with a full body routine like the one I’d outlined above, who knows how fast you would’ve progressed? [/quote]

LOL!!!

I still have the stretch marks from my arms going up over 3" in about two years. I think I did just fine, but thank you for the concern.

[quote]

You could’ve trained bodyparts more frequently and with heavier poundages because you would only be doing a few sets for that muscle during that workout rather than 15.[/quote]

Why would I need to train body parts more frequently if I am doing enough to them that they need longer to recover?

[quote]

You are advanced. You use a split. I have NEVER said that splits weren’t appropriate for advanced people. Just because you started with a split doesn’t mean it’s the best or optimum either-- “working” is not the same as “working optimally”.[/quote]

Please, tell that to the many gigantic bodybuilders in not only the professional scene but NPC as well.

Until some of you who love to tell us we are doing it wrong or less optimally start passing up the largest split trainers here, I doubt anyone cares that you think I didn’t train “optimally”.

Results prove the rule. When will you figure that out?

[quote]

To be clear- I only think you’ve been “lying” regarding your routine being focused around compounds.

I will be sure to let you know when I hit 405 on the bench.[/quote]

I am one of the few who has listed his routine in detail MANY times over on this site. You may want to play this game with someone else.

662

[quote]trextacy wrote:
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve? I lift, and I look like I lift.

I posted my stats and I’m moving steadily towards my goal. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really give a shit. Getting credibility with a bunch of anonymous pricks is not high on my list of things to do.

If you are interested I can keep you updated on weight, lifts, BF, measurements, etc…and if I reach the point where I need unbiased advice on what to focus on (not that I would get that from this place at this point), I would post pics. I’m not there yet though.[/quote]

A bunch of pricks eh? You’re a complete and utter toolbag dude. Seriously, what a pussy fucking cop-out.

“I have nothing to prove.” Ha ha - famous last words of keyboard warriors who have NO physique to show.

No need to post pics in your underwear - just post a pic in a t-shirt - that’s all you have to do. C’mon tough guy - shut me up with that fabulous physique you’re surely sporting.

Fact of the matter is, you’ve received a bloody beating on every page of this thread. And you just keep coming back more hysterical each time, screeching the same baseless bullshit.

On top of that, you make ridiculous accusations about respected members of this community. And you really expect anyone to take you seriously? No one gives a fuck that you “posted your stats” - anyone can post bullshit stats. Put your fucking money where your big fucking mouth is and let’s SEE what you’ve got.

Otherwise, you’re just another big-mouthed cunt who would never, in a million fucking years, act this way if we were all in the same room together.

So, gonna prove me wrong, or remain just another mouth-breathing shitbag who doesn’t belong anywhere near a real bodybuilding site?

663

[quote]TBT4ver wrote:
Can we get a definition of “compound” movement trextacy? For instance, how on earth can you possibly claim that a hammer strength military press is not a compound movement but a barbell military press is?

Does the exact same movement (albeit with a machine versus freeweight) somehow magically take out the “compoundness” of the exercise? Please explain.[/quote]

Hmmmmmm, interesting screen name! I think… Oh, never mind.

Trextacy, are you aware that “compound” means more than one joint being active in a given lift?

Standing BBL press- shoulder+elbow=compound.

Hammer Strength Shoulder Press- Shoulder+elbow+compound.

Are you now going to turn this into a machine vs. free weight debate given the definition of “compound”?

664

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve? I lift, and I look like I lift.

I posted my stats and I’m moving steadily towards my goal. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really give a shit. Getting credibility with a bunch of anonymous pricks is not high on my list of things to do.

If you are interested I can keep you updated on weight, lifts, BF, measurements, etc…and if I reach the point where I need unbiased advice on what to focus on (not that I would get that from this place at this point), I would post pics. I’m not there yet though.

A bunch of pricks eh? You’re a complete and utter toolbag dude. Seriously, what a pussy fucking cop-out.

“I have nothing to prove.” Ha ha - famous last words of keyboard warriors who have NO physique to show.

No need to post pics in your underwear - just post a pic in a t-shirt - that’s all you have to do. C’mon tough guy - shut me up with that fabulous physique you’re surely sporting.

Fact of the matter is, you’ve received a bloody beating on every page of this thread. And you just keep coming back more hysterical each time, screeching the same baseless bullshit.

On top of that, you make ridiculous accusations about respected members of this community. And you really expect anyone to take you seriously? No one gives a fuck that you “posted your stats” - anyone can post bullshit stats. Put your fucking money where your big fucking mouth is and let’s SEE what you’ve got.

Otherwise, you’re just another big-mouthed cunt who would never, in a million fucking years, act this way if we were all in the same room together.

So, gonna prove me wrong, or remain just another mouth-breathing shitbag who doesn’t belong anywhere near a real bodybuilding site?

[/quote]

Wow. You’ve got to be kidding me with this. I can practically see you fuming behind your keyboard. Aren’t you a grown man?

Unlike you, I’ve never tried to be a “tough guy” in my posts. Just saying what I think about training and, apparently, that hurts your feelings and makes you angry. You are going to have to get over that. I’m working towards my goals just fine and would take my physique (current and future) over yours any day of the week actually.

As I’ve repeated, this isn’t “personal” and no amount of profanity-laced baiting by you is going to make it so. The fact is, I haven’t “taken a beating” on this thread in the least. I have supported my position and presented evidence for my points of view. All you have managed to do is name call and attempt to turn this into a pissing contest. I suspect you are the kind of guy who pulls the “I’m bigger than you” card frequently, but unfortunately for you there is much more to life (and bodybuilding) than just be a big guy. And, I actually just checked your profile-- you are 41 and just another big guy that I see about 50 of per day. You aren’t any more of a “bodybuilder” than anyone else on here so why don’t you show some class, humility and stop bringing the level of discussion down on the forum in some vain, juvenile attempt to appear “hardcore” in front of your internet buddies.

You do have a very nice looking family though and a sweet gym set up.

665

[quote]TBT4ver wrote:
Can we get a definition of “compound” movement trextacy? For instance, how on earth can you possibly claim that a hammer strength military press is not a compound movement but a barbell military press is?

Does the exact same movement (albeit with a machine versus freeweight) somehow magically take out the “compoundness” of the exercise? Please explain.[/quote]

I know compounds are just multi-joint exercises. However, when people discuss “compounds”, the “big movements” and the “money exercises”, they are referring to multi-joint free weight (Bb or db) exercises, not machines.

I think most people would concede that (if they were going to be honest). In this discussion, this is how it’s meant. Also, regardless of the joints involved, a properly executed military press w/ a bb engages more muscles than a properly executed HS military press. You know this.

Just to be clear, I think machines are very useful, but I don’t think that you can say that they are equivalent to their free weight counterparts.

666

of course they aren’t “equivalent”, that is why the machine press is BETTER for Professor X and a lot of other advanced bodybuilders.

I’m sure at one point in his training, the freeweight press was better for him.

It’s easy to make blanket statements about the superiority of freeweight exercises when you aren’t lifting very heavy weights.

667

[quote]trextacy wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve? I lift, and I look like I lift.

I posted my stats and I’m moving steadily towards my goal. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really give a shit. Getting credibility with a bunch of anonymous pricks is not high on my list of things to do.

If you are interested I can keep you updated on weight, lifts, BF, measurements, etc…and if I reach the point where I need unbiased advice on what to focus on (not that I would get that from this place at this point), I would post pics. I’m not there yet though.

A bunch of pricks eh? You’re a complete and utter toolbag dude. Seriously, what a pussy fucking cop-out.

“I have nothing to prove.” Ha ha - famous last words of keyboard warriors who have NO physique to show.

No need to post pics in your underwear - just post a pic in a t-shirt - that’s all you have to do. C’mon tough guy - shut me up with that fabulous physique you’re surely sporting.

Fact of the matter is, you’ve received a bloody beating on every page of this thread. And you just keep coming back more hysterical each time, screeching the same baseless bullshit.

On top of that, you make ridiculous accusations about respected members of this community. And you really expect anyone to take you seriously? No one gives a fuck that you “posted your stats” - anyone can post bullshit stats. Put your fucking money where your big fucking mouth is and let’s SEE what you’ve got.

Otherwise, you’re just another big-mouthed cunt who would never, in a million fucking years, act this way if we were all in the same room together.

So, gonna prove me wrong, or remain just another mouth-breathing shitbag who doesn’t belong anywhere near a real bodybuilding site?

Wow. You’ve got to be kidding me with this. I can practically see you fuming behind your keyboard. Aren’t you a grown man?

Unlike you, I’ve never tried to be a “tough guy” in my posts. Just saying what I think about training and, apparently, that hurts your feelings and makes you angry. You are going to have to get over that. I’m working towards my goals just fine and would take my physique (current and future) over yours any day of the week actually.

As I’ve repeated, this isn’t “personal” and no amount of profanity-laced baiting by you is going to make it so. The fact is, I haven’t “taken a beating” on this thread in the least. I have supported my position and presented evidence for my points of view. All you have managed to do is name call and attempt to turn this into a pissing contest. I suspect you are the kind of guy who pulls the “I’m bigger than you” card frequently, but unfortunately for you there is much more to life (and bodybuilding) than just be a big guy. And, I actually just checked your profile-- you are 41 and just another big guy that I see about 50 of per day. You aren’t any more of a “bodybuilder” than anyone else on here so why don’t you show some class, humility and stop bringing the level of discussion down on the forum in some vain, juvenile attempt to appear “hardcore” in front of your internet buddies.

You do have a very nice looking family though and a sweet gym set up.

[/quote]

So, no picture?

668

[quote]trextacy wrote:
TBT4ver wrote:
Can we get a definition of “compound” movement trextacy? For instance, how on earth can you possibly claim that a hammer strength military press is not a compound movement but a barbell military press is?

Does the exact same movement (albeit with a machine versus freeweight) somehow magically take out the “compoundness” of the exercise? Please explain.

I know compounds are just multi-joint exercises. However, when people discuss “compounds”, the “big movements” and the “money exercises”, they are referring to multi-joint free weight (Bb or db) exercises, not machines.

I think most people would concede that (if they were going to be honest). In this discussion, this is how it’s meant. Also, regardless of the joints involved, a properly executed military press w/ a bb engages more muscles than a properly executed HS military press. You know this.

Just to be clear, I think machines are very useful, but I don’t think that you can say that they are equivalent to their free weight counterparts.
[/quote]

In some ways they are superior.

669

[quote]mr popular wrote:
of course they aren’t “equivalent”, that is why the machine press is BETTER for Professor X and a lot of other advanced bodybuilders.

I’m sure at one point in his training, the freeweight press was better for him.

It’s easy to make blanket statements about the superiority of freeweight exercises when you aren’t lifting very heavy weights.[/quote]

And you will note that i’ve distinguished advanced bb-ers throughout this thread. the issue came up because someone said that a traditional bb-ing routine does not focus on compounds. Professor X had a coronary over that statement (lots of caps lock was used to great effect) and stated otherwise.

Please read carefully: My point is (and has always been) that bodybuilding splits are optimum for advanced trainers, but that for beginners and intermediates it’s probably best to focus on the compounds (money) exercises, with greater frequency and training the whole body until the weight is such that things should be split up more. A corollary to that would be that when the person is so strong/advanced that using the “money” exercises is not feasible anymore in light of the risks, machines can be used more frequently. Whether that’s optimal is another story but I certainly see the logic.

Again- I don’t see what’s so controversial.

670

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
trextacy wrote:
TBT4ver wrote:
Can we get a definition of “compound” movement trextacy? For instance, how on earth can you possibly claim that a hammer strength military press is not a compound movement but a barbell military press is?

Does the exact same movement (albeit with a machine versus freeweight) somehow magically take out the “compoundness” of the exercise? Please explain.

I know compounds are just multi-joint exercises. However, when people discuss “compounds”, the “big movements” and the “money exercises”, they are referring to multi-joint free weight (Bb or db) exercises, not machines.

I think most people would concede that (if they were going to be honest). In this discussion, this is how it’s meant. Also, regardless of the joints involved, a properly executed military press w/ a bb engages more muscles than a properly executed HS military press. You know this.

Just to be clear, I think machines are very useful, but I don’t think that you can say that they are equivalent to their free weight counterparts.

In some ways they are superior.[/quote]

Depending on the goal…and usually only for those who have built a substantial amount of muscle (because if you hypertrophy/strengthen the dominant/target muscle beyond what the supporting cast can handle, you develop dangerous (and noticeable) deficiencies). But yes.

671

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
trextacy wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve? I lift, and I look like I lift.

I posted my stats and I’m moving steadily towards my goal. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really give a shit. Getting credibility with a bunch of anonymous pricks is not high on my list of things to do.

If you are interested I can keep you updated on weight, lifts, BF, measurements, etc…and if I reach the point where I need unbiased advice on what to focus on (not that I would get that from this place at this point), I would post pics. I’m not there yet though.

A bunch of pricks eh? You’re a complete and utter toolbag dude. Seriously, what a pussy fucking cop-out.

“I have nothing to prove.” Ha ha - famous last words of keyboard warriors who have NO physique to show.

No need to post pics in your underwear - just post a pic in a t-shirt - that’s all you have to do. C’mon tough guy - shut me up with that fabulous physique you’re surely sporting.

Fact of the matter is, you’ve received a bloody beating on every page of this thread. And you just keep coming back more hysterical each time, screeching the same baseless bullshit.

On top of that, you make ridiculous accusations about respected members of this community. And you really expect anyone to take you seriously? No one gives a fuck that you “posted your stats” - anyone can post bullshit stats. Put your fucking money where your big fucking mouth is and let’s SEE what you’ve got.

Otherwise, you’re just another big-mouthed cunt who would never, in a million fucking years, act this way if we were all in the same room together.

So, gonna prove me wrong, or remain just another mouth-breathing shitbag who doesn’t belong anywhere near a real bodybuilding site?

Wow. You’ve got to be kidding me with this. I can practically see you fuming behind your keyboard. Aren’t you a grown man?

Unlike you, I’ve never tried to be a “tough guy” in my posts. Just saying what I think about training and, apparently, that hurts your feelings and makes you angry. You are going to have to get over that. I’m working towards my goals just fine and would take my physique (current and future) over yours any day of the week actually.

As I’ve repeated, this isn’t “personal” and no amount of profanity-laced baiting by you is going to make it so. The fact is, I haven’t “taken a beating” on this thread in the least. I have supported my position and presented evidence for my points of view. All you have managed to do is name call and attempt to turn this into a pissing contest. I suspect you are the kind of guy who pulls the “I’m bigger than you” card frequently, but unfortunately for you there is much more to life (and bodybuilding) than just be a big guy. And, I actually just checked your profile-- you are 41 and just another big guy that I see about 50 of per day. You aren’t any more of a “bodybuilder” than anyone else on here so why don’t you show some class, humility and stop bringing the level of discussion down on the forum in some vain, juvenile attempt to appear “hardcore” in front of your internet buddies.

You do have a very nice looking family though and a sweet gym set up.

So, no picture? [/quote]

Nope. BTW, how hilarious would it be if I happened to be under age 18 (like many who post on T-Nation) and you got in trouble for demanding/requesting pics of me over the internet in profanity-laced, testerone-fueled posts? Whoops.

I explained before that I would post pics if I reached a point where I was happy and wanted the unbiased, constructive viewpoints of those who are much better than me. Since (a) I’m not at my goal, and (b) I doubt I could get anything constructive out of you guys, I don’t see that happening any time soon. Figuring out how to post my pics during a stupid ass flame war is about as pathetic as it gets, so I’ll pass.

I do think it’s hilarious that you guys really believe that I would research and study bodybuilding, participate in the forums, seek out one of Poliquin’s top students for a biosig and be a Level 4 on T-Nation if I didn’t bust my ass in the kitchen and gym and have something to show for it.

672

[quote]trextacy wrote:

I do think it’s hilarious that you guys really believe that I would research and study bodybuilding, participate in the forums, seek out one of Poliquin’s top students for a biosig and be a Level 4 on T-Nation if I didn’t bust my ass in the kitchen and gym and have something to show for it.[/quote]

I don’t want to dogpile on you, but the problem is that there are MANY people like that. They buy all the supplements, read all the articles, know all the terminology, and still look like crap.

To be completely honest, that last paragraph came across as your last ditch effort to convince us that you look good, when it would just be easier to post a pic.

But, at this point you have already reached a decision and I imagine you’ll stick to your guns, so it’s all moot.

Good luck.

673

[quote]trextacy wrote:
And you will note that i’ve distinguished advanced bb-ers throughout this thread. the issue came up because someone said that a traditional bb-ing routine does not focus on compounds. Professor X had a coronary over that statement (lots of caps lock was used to great effect) and stated otherwise.

Please read carefully: My point is (and has always been) that bodybuilding splits are optimum for advanced trainers, but that for beginners and intermediates it’s probably best to focus on the compounds (money) exercises, with greater frequency and training the whole body until the weight is such that things should be split up more. A corollary to that would be that when the person is so strong/advanced that using the “money” exercises is not feasible anymore in light of the risks, machines can be used more frequently. Whether that’s optimal is another story but I certainly see the logic.

Again- I don’t see what’s so controversial.[/quote]

It isn’t controversial, it’s just a lame and ineffective way of going about things. And more than, the fact that you see things that way shows how inexperienced you are because you don’t understand what it would be like to actually attempt to do this past the sheer novice stages.

Fullbody workouts are attempting to get good results by increasing frequency, but what you don’t realize is that you are sacrificing a great degree of training effect and intensity, not to mention training certain aspects of general conditioning that just don’t NEED to be trained necessarily.

The “theory” behind fullbody workouts is just as sound as the theory behind HIT training. That doesn’t mean they aren’t both just a lousy way to make yourself more muscular compared to a traditional split routine that has turned people from skinny to huge for decades.

674

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
trextacy wrote:

I do think it’s hilarious that you guys really believe that I would research and study bodybuilding, participate in the forums, seek out one of Poliquin’s top students for a biosig and be a Level 4 on T-Nation if I didn’t bust my ass in the kitchen and gym and have something to show for it.

I don’t want to dogpile on you, but the problem is that there are MANY people like that. They buy all the supplements, read all the articles, know all the terminology, and still look like crap.

To be completely honest, that last paragraph came across as your last ditch effort to convince us that you look good, when it would just be easier to post a pic.

But, at this point you have already reached a decision and I imagine you’ll stick to your guns, so it’s all moot.

Good luck.[/quote]

Pile away. It wasn’t a last ditch effort to convince anyone of anything. I posted my stats before, and if I were going to BS anyone I would’ve said I was a lot heavier than 205 at 6’2" and exaggerated my lifts. But, whatever, this has never been about me or me trying to convince people I’m awesome. “Bigger” doesn’t always = correct.

It’s supposed to be a discussion about bodybuilding and training methods, which I enjoy doing. Yeah, it’s just talk, but I have fewer posts then basically everyone who’s piling on me (and been a member a lot longer than most), so who’s doing more talking? Apparently, there isn’t going to be any productive discussion without things getting personal.

What kills me is some of these guys have pics in their profiles and they are simply fat guys who lift. Those are a dime a dozen, and have nothing more in common with “bodybuilders” than Brad Pitt does (insert anyone who is lean w/o muscle). Muscle w/o leanness is just as deficient as leanness without muscle. But I digress…

good luck to you too.

675

[quote]trextacy wrote:
I do think it’s hilarious that you guys really believe that I would research and study bodybuilding, participate in the forums, seek out one of Poliquin’s top students for a biosig and be a Level 4 on T-Nation if I didn’t bust my ass in the kitchen and gym and have something to show for it.[/quote]

Yet, for all the talking you do about what a successful bodybuilder you are, you simply can’t post a picture.

Hilarious - and don’t worry. No one is “fuming” about you or your posts. To the contrary, I’m just sitting here laughing my ass off at a guy who’s been called out by numerous people to post a simple pic, yet keeps coming back with excuse after excuse, and somehow expects people to buy what a dedicated trainer he is.

Fucking awesome…

676

So post a pic of your progress so far…

I am very confident that the guys will be constructive.

I’m willing to bet that they’d all promise not to flame you if you’d just post a picture of yourself.

And what the fuck was all that “It’d be funny if you got in trouble for soliciting a minor” crap about?

Talk about changing the subject!

677

[quote]mr popular wrote:
trextacy wrote:
And you will note that i’ve distinguished advanced bb-ers throughout this thread. the issue came up because someone said that a traditional bb-ing routine does not focus on compounds. Professor X had a coronary over that statement (lots of caps lock was used to great effect) and stated otherwise.

Please read carefully: My point is (and has always been) that bodybuilding splits are optimum for advanced trainers, but that for beginners and intermediates it’s probably best to focus on the compounds (money) exercises, with greater frequency and training the whole body until the weight is such that things should be split up more. A corollary to that would be that when the person is so strong/advanced that using the “money” exercises is not feasible anymore in light of the risks, machines can be used more frequently. Whether that’s optimal is another story but I certainly see the logic.

Again- I don’t see what’s so controversial.

It isn’t controversial, it’s just a lame and ineffective way of going about things. And more than, the fact that you see things that way shows how inexperienced you are because you don’t understand what it would be like to actually attempt to do this past the sheer novice stages.

Fullbody workouts are attempting to get good results by increasing frequency, but what you don’t realize is that you are sacrificing a great degree of training effect and intensity, not to mention training certain aspects of general conditioning that just don’t NEED to be trained necessarily.

The “theory” behind fullbody workouts is just as sound as the theory behind HIT training. That doesn’t mean they aren’t both just a lousy way to make yourself more muscular compared to a traditional split routine that has turned people from skinny to huge for decades.[/quote]

Except this isn’t true.

Let me repeat for what seems like the thousandth time— prior to the introduction of drugs into the world of bodybuilding, bodybuilders regularly built their muscle mass with full body programs. The advent of heavy drug use made split training “particularly” effective in permitting shit loads of volume and taking the recovery limitations out of the picture. I have provided MANY examples of this and it’s well accepted amongst people who don’t have their heads in the sand. Again, we are discussing what is optimum for naturals. Obviously, some people respond better to splits but some respond better to full body. Once someone has achieved an advanced level of training, splits have the upper hand.

Also, here you go (for the 3rd time on this thread)
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/pictures_pics_photo_body_rate_image_performance/8_weeks_out_1

Natty who uses full body for mass off-season and splits when in season. Maybe if pros tried it, SOME of them would find that set up to be better than year round splits??

678

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I do think it’s hilarious that you guys really believe that I would research and study bodybuilding, participate in the forums, seek out one of Poliquin’s top students for a biosig and be a Level 4 on T-Nation if I didn’t bust my ass in the kitchen and gym and have something to show for it.

Yet, for all the talking you do about what a successful bodybuilder you are, you simply can’t post a picture.

Hilarious - and don’t worry. No one is “fuming” about you or your posts. To the contrary, I’m just sitting here laughing my ass off at a guy who’s been called out by numerous people to post a simple pic, yet keeps coming back with excuse after excuse, and somehow expects people to buy what a dedicated trainer he is.

Fucking awesome… [/quote]

Never said I was a successful bodybuilder. And yes, you were fuming in your other post.

There isn’t excuse after excuse-- I HAVE SAID THE SAME THING AND GIVEN THE SAME REASONS THE WHOLE TIME.

BTW, what do your pics “prove”? Serious question.

679

[quote]derek wrote:
So post a pic of your progress so far…

I am very confident that the guys will be constructive.

I’m willing to bet that they’d all promise not to flame you if you’d just post a picture of yourself.
Right.
And what the fuck was all that “It’d be funny if you got in trouble for soliciting a minor” crap about?

Talk about changing the subject!
It’s called a joke.
[/quote]

BTW, aren’t you a big HIT guy?

Also, where are your pics? I would hope that you have something other than the grainy side view of you lifting the front end of a car 15 years ago that’s in your profile.

680

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
…stick to your guns, …[/quote]

Or lack thereof…