[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I missed this entire thread. Should I be happy or sad about that?[/quote]
Don’t worry, there will be plenty more bodypart split and bodybuilding bashing threads soon enough.
[quote]monatu wrote:
I think a lot of people are confusing Bodypart Splits with Splits. Splits still means Upper/Lower, and I think a lot of people that stand by TBT also stand by Upper/Lower.
[/quote]
Nonsense! This is backpedaling at its finest.
At first when the TBT proponents couldn’t name anyone CW trained who looked like they were in the ballpark of “Reg Park big” using modern interpretations of TBT they said that CW wasn’t the only PT with a TBT system and others had a better track record.
Then when asked for the names of the other systems and the bodybuilders they produced we were once again informed that the following had excellent results with TBT:
Joel Marion - A guy who only has few TBT articles, but built his own body using splits. Aside from himself I’ve never seen any of his clients
Alwyn Cosgrove - A guy who does use TBT, but usually not for physique or figure competitors!
From his August 13th, 2008 BLOG entry
http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/2008/08/misconceptions-and-programming.html
Note: The Bold and Underline emphasis are mine.
Granted, No one has ever seen any Bodybuilder AC has produced…
HST Again, there is no proof the system works. Another posted said Boris Klein has exclusively used HST and is a large bodybuilder. True, he is a large bodybuilder, but he was already large, competing and winning bodybuilding competitions years before HST was invented. Secondly Boris Klein was arrested 2 years ago for steroid trafficking… It’s not a big deal in itself, but I just find it funny because many who are against splits say that only steroid users can grow off of them. Now we find out that the only guy they can name who has gotten big using TBT in the past 10-15 years was using them…
Mike Mahler Again, an athletic looking guy who we’ve never seen any of his clients…
Reg Park Big dude, trained 3 hours per session (9 hr/week) - later switched to split training because he admitted splits were better for bodybuilding. Him and other Golden Age bodybuilders did train TBT but it looked nothing like what is being suggested in the past few decades (3x/week @ about 45-75min/session).
Now that the TBT proponents can’t name anyone who has gotten big using any modern day TBT system they’re pretending that an UPPER/LOWER split is the same as TBT?
Are you kidding me?!?!?!?
Now some of you are asking us to ignore the word “split” in an upper/lower split and simply to acknowledge that TBT and UPPER/LOWER splits are more similar to one another than an UPPER/LOWER split is with a traditional 3 ways split.
Whatever, but here goes…
There are many UPPER/LOWER systems out there, some of the most popular and result driven system have you training at a frequency which ressembles this:
M-T-W-T-F-S-S (week days)
U-x-L-x-U-x-x
L-x-U-x-L-x-x
So basically you would hit the same body part 3 times in 14 days(or once every 14/3=4.66 days).
Most TBT routines have you train the same body part 6 times in 14 days (or once every 14/6=2.3 days)
Poliquin, who uses a 3 way split (including an arm day) over 5 days, has you train the same body part once every 5/1=5 days.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
3)HUGE bodybuilders, pro or not, know nothing about growing muscle. Its all an illusion. or just blood trapped for years of pump training. In the moment they stop, all the blood transforms itself into fat, by the process of neofatsogenesis. ← is that a reference to evangelion, or is it just me being delusional?
Sums it up pretty well, doesn’t it.
Onwards to mediocrity ![/quote]
You are delusional. No evagelion reference. But its expected… after all you believe in the superiority of splits.
Everyone knows that the best way to make lifts go up is to train then with lesser intensity, and those TBT guys that look like little boys? They are in fact only 3 year old babies, with accelerated growth due to TBT exposition.
So as you see… TBT makes chest hair grow also.
In a more serious note, does this undead thread never will receive the proverbial shotgun headshot? Or better yet, accept it?
[quote]trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
trextacy wrote:
For example- i’m quite certain i’ve read prof x say he doesn’t do any of the following regularly or at all:
Any type of olympic lift.
Any type of clean
Any type of deadlift
Back Squats
Front Squats
Military press (barbell)
Bent over rows
What?
You must be a troll. It is sad that you aren’t better at it.
What bodybuilder EVER avoided overhead presses?
You are one sad fool.
Sweet comeback. Which of those do you do regularly? Answer the question. I never mentioned “overhead” presses.
Better yet— which compound movements do you do? You could save us all a lot of time by just answering a question rather than calling me a troll (which, I’m not).[/quote]
What the fuck do you think a military press is ?
He’s probably going to nerd it up and tell us that a military press is only standing overhead presses and we label it wrong if we call any seated overhead press a military press.
Right trextacy?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Scott M wrote:
What’s the difference between a body part split and a split to you?
LOL.
I have come to the conclusion that most of these guys don’t even understand what “split” means in the first place. They have been told it means light weights and only isolation exercises. I haven’t figured out yet how they can ignore that the biggest guys didn’t avoid squats.[/quote]
Isn’t a split when you do heavy squats, go deep, and then your pants split? No? Oh, that’s just me, My bad!
[quote]Scott M wrote:
He’s probably going to nerd it up and tell us that a military press is only standing overhead presses and we label it wrong if we call any seated overhead press a military press.
Right trextacy? [/quote]
Probably.
Whatever - unless he posts some pictures, then who gives a fuck.
It’s a bodybuilding site - put up or shut up. It’s as simple as that.
No one wants to hear the million or so excuses you have for not showing anyone what you look like. When you flat out refuse to post a pic, it makes everything you say totally suspect.
I mean, shit - if you were unable to create a decent physique for yourself (and let’s face it - if you had ANY kind of build, you wouldn’t be pissing down your leg in fear of showing it) then why would anyone pay a lick of attention to anything you say?
It’s just common sense…
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I missed this entire thread. Should I be happy or sad about that?[/quote]
When I read this I had an immediate visual of Office Space, “well Bob, I wouldn’t say I was missing work” or something like that.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Scott M wrote:
He’s probably going to nerd it up and tell us that a military press is only standing overhead presses and we label it wrong if we call any seated overhead press a military press.
Right trextacy?
Probably.
Whatever - unless he posts some pictures, then who gives a fuck.
It’s a bodybuilding site - put up or shut up. It’s as simple as that.
No one wants to hear the million or so excuses you have for not showing anyone what you look like. When you flat out refuse to post a pic, it makes everything you say totally suspect.
I mean, shit - if you were unable to create a decent physique for yourself (and let’s face it - if you had ANY kind of build, you wouldn’t be pissing down your leg in fear of showing it) then why would anyone pay a lick of attention to anything you say?
It’s just common sense… [/quote]
The point was that X’s routine is NOT focused on compounds and he does few if any. He says he squats, but I call bullshit based on other things he’s written (he does leg press and occassionally uses the hack squat machine…no bb squatting).
Of course I can’t prove it, but I’d be willing to bet that he uses the HS “military press” machine. I know it. You know it. He couldn’t just say, “yeah, you’re right, I don’t really do BB compounds”… so he throws out military presses. I already posted his routine earlier (he says he changed it since then…I guess to add in MP’s at this point…again, my ass).
I’m not going to “nerd” anything up. My point is proven- X’s “bodybuilding” style routine is woefully lacking in compound movements-- which is fine if that’s what he wants to do, but don’t get your nuts in a twist when people make the general statement that those styles of routines don’t have many compounds. It’s pump training. That’s his style.
Also, don’t be an asshole and ask for people’s “Stats” when you don’t bench, dead, squat, clean, etc. (X did this in an earlier post).
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve? I lift, and I look like I lift. I posted my stats and I’m moving steadily towards my goal. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really give a shit. Getting credibility with a bunch of anonymous pricks is not high on my list of things to do. If you are interested I can keep you updated on weight, lifts, BF, measurements, etc…and if I reach the point where I need unbiased advice on what to focus on (not that I would get that from this place at this point), I would post pics. I’m not there yet though.
[quote]Protoculture wrote:
monatu wrote:
I think a lot of people are confusing Bodypart Splits with Splits. Splits still means Upper/Lower, and I think a lot of people that stand by TBT also stand by Upper/Lower.
Nonsense! This is backpedaling at its finest.
At first when the TBT proponents couldn’t name anyone CW trained who looked like they were in the ballpark of “Reg Park big” using modern interpretations of TBT they said that CW wasn’t the only PT with a TBT system and others had a better track record.
Then when asked for the names of the other systems and the bodybuilders they produced we were once again informed that the following had excellent results with TBT:
Joel Marion - A guy who only has few TBT articles, but built his own body using splits. Aside from himself I’ve never seen any of his clients
Alwyn Cosgrove - A guy who does use TBT, but usually not for physique or figure competitors!
From his August 13th, 2008 BLOG entry
http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/2008/08/misconceptions-and-programming.html
I think people often read something I or one of my team have written and think that they know what we do with all our different clients. For example, people think that we don’t ever use aerobic training - but we have several triathletes and other endurance athletes at Results Fitness. Or that we only use full body workouts – we don’t - we actually usually use split routines. We’ve had a ton of figure and physique competitors as members of our gym.
[…]
I actually read something recently where someone thinks that I don’t do any isolation training or direct arm training. Guess they’ve never been at a seminar of mine, read many articles I’ve written or been in my gym…nearly all my programs available on my website include isolation exercises for direct arm training.
Note: The Bold and Underline emphasis are mine.
Granted, No one has ever seen any Bodybuilder AC has produced…
HST Again, there is no proof the system works. Another posted said Boris Klein has exclusively used HST and is a large bodybuilder. True, he is a large bodybuilder, but he was already large, competing and winning bodybuilding competitions years before HST was invented. Secondly Boris Klein was arrested 2 years ago for steroid trafficking… It’s not a big deal in itself, but I just find it funny because many who are against splits say that only steroid users can grow off of them. Now we find out that the only guy they can name who has gotten big using TBT in the past 10-15 years was using them…
Mike Mahler Again, an athletic looking guy who we’ve never seen any of his clients…
Reg Park Big dude, trained 3 hours per session (9 hr/week) - later switched to split training because he admitted splits were better for bodybuilding. Him and other Golden Age bodybuilders did train TBT but it looked nothing like what is being suggested in the past few decades (3x/week @ about 45-75min/session).
Now that the TBT proponents can’t name anyone who has gotten big using any modern day TBT system they’re pretending that an UPPER/LOWER split is the same as TBT?
Are you kidding me?!?!?!?
Now some of you are asking us to ignore the word “split” in an upper/lower split and simply to acknowledge that TBT and UPPER/LOWER splits are more similar to one another than an UPPER/LOWER split is with a traditional 3 ways split.
Whatever, but here goes…
There are many UPPER/LOWER systems out there, some of the most popular and result driven system have you training at a frequency which ressembles this:
M-T-W-T-F-S-S (week days)
U-x-L-x-U-x-x
L-x-U-x-L-x-x
So basically you would hit the same body part 3 times in 14 days(or once every 14/3=4.66 days).
Most TBT routines have you train the same body part 6 times in 14 days (or once every 14/6=2.3 days)
Poliquin, who uses a 3 way split (including an arm day) over 5 days, has you train the same body part once every 5/1=5 days.
[/quote]
I know guys like Mike Mahler and Joel Marion are not bodybuilders, but I still view their recommendations as sound.
I could probably beat Dean Smith at basketball, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how to coach it.
BTW, here is a natty pro who uses full body Waterbury programs to add mass in the off season, then switches to splits when in season:
Pretty interesting.
[quote]trextacy wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
Scott M wrote:
He’s probably going to nerd it up and tell us that a military press is only standing overhead presses and we label it wrong if we call any seated overhead press a military press.
Right trextacy?
Probably.
Whatever - unless he posts some pictures, then who gives a fuck.
It’s a bodybuilding site - put up or shut up. It’s as simple as that.
No one wants to hear the million or so excuses you have for not showing anyone what you look like. When you flat out refuse to post a pic, it makes everything you say totally suspect.
I mean, shit - if you were unable to create a decent physique for yourself (and let’s face it - if you had ANY kind of build, you wouldn’t be pissing down your leg in fear of showing it) then why would anyone pay a lick of attention to anything you say?
It’s just common sense…
The point was that X’s routine is NOT focused on compounds and he does few if any. He says he squats, but I call bullshit based on other things he’s written (he does leg press and occassionally uses the hack squat machine…no bb squatting).
Of course I can’t prove it, but I’d be willing to bet that he uses the HS “military press” machine. I know it. You know it. He couldn’t just say, “yeah, you’re right, I don’t really do BB compounds”… so he throws out military presses. I already posted his routine earlier (he says he changed it since then…I guess to add in MP’s at this point…again, my ass).
I’m not going to “nerd” anything up. My point is proven- X’s “bodybuilding” style routine is woefully lacking in compound movements-- which is fine if that’s what he wants to do, but don’t get your nuts in a twist when people make the general statement that those styles of routines don’t have many compounds. It’s pump training. That’s his style.
Also, don’t be an asshole and ask for people’s “Stats” when you don’t bench, dead, squat, clean, etc. (X did this in an earlier post).
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve? I lift, and I look like I lift.
I posted my stats and I’m moving steadily towards my goal. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really give a shit. Getting credibility with a bunch of anonymous pricks is not high on my list of things to do.
If you are interested I can keep you updated on weight, lifts, BF, measurements, etc…and if I reach the point where I need unbiased advice on what to focus on (not that I would get that from this place at this point), I would post pics. I’m not there yet though.[/quote]
You’re an idiot. I have been lifting for nearly 15 years and I look like it. I don’t do some movements now because I have MOVED PAST doing them safely without a spotter because of the weight used now.
To look at what I am doing right this moment ignores the SEVERAL YEARS I spent doing squats, regular barbell benchpress, dumbbell presses, military presses using the barbell and yes, even deadlifts.
Things like this need to be explained to you because you are a newbie. You don’t understand what has built the most size because your perspective has been largely based on that held by the authors you build cults around.
None of that was “pump training” and nothing I do now is “pump training”. I lift HEAVY, way heavier than anyone else I see at the gym lately and use more machines now because of the safety issue. I first benched 405lbs about a decade ago. Let me know when you EVER reach that.
[quote]trextacy wrote:
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve?[/quote]
Also, on this point, it serves the purpose of showing you even have the slightest clue what you are talking about (which we all know by now you don’t).
I’ll post my picture here if you will.
I have to wholeheartedly agree with the picture-posting and the need to put up or shut up.
If I had a picture that showed how good I looked and that could put and end to this debate or at the very LEAST add some credence to my side of the debate, I’d damn well put it up.
This notion of “I don’t care what you guys think” or “I have nothing to prove to a bunch of anonymous assholes” carries NO water at all.
If you have a picture, put it up. If you don’t, get one and put it up.
It boils down to this; post a pic now or quit telling us how superior TBT is.
There, I said it.
EDIT; If there is no picture forthcoming, we are left to assume that you wont post one because you are afraid of the criticism that would ensue. Not looking “picture-worthy” isn’t a crime, spouting off about a matter about which one lacks any personal physical proof of is.
Imagine how you’d feel about your financial advisor if you found out his portfolio was all fucked up and was was going broke.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve?
Also, on this point, it serves the purpose of showing you even have the slightest clue what you are talking about (which we all know by now you don’t).
I’ll post my picture here if you will.[/quote]
You are being ridiculous. I know what I’m talking about, and posting pictures of myself on the internet doesn’t/won’t change anything. There are gigantic guys who don’t know shit. I’ve already posted my stats…why don’t you post yours?
Nothing you have said refutes anything I’ve said. You are advanced, so you do a split. I think that a full-body/frequency approach focusing on compounds and building an appreciable amount of strength is optimum, with a shift towards splits once that has been achieved. For the life of me I can’t see what is so fucking controversial, idiotic, stupid, etc. about that.
Btw, as I posted above, there is a guy in RMP named peteman who is 6’1, about 205lbs who is 8 weeks out from a show. He is a natty who does full body 3 days per week in the offseason to add mass. Then, he does a split when in season. His stats are similar to mine (although he is stronger, leaner and has more muscle…haha) but his physique is similiar to what I’m shooting for. With my next bulk/cult cycle I could end up somewhere near that (not contest level leanness because I don’t have any plans to try and compete- i don’t really care about being much below 9%). I point this out again to show that, for natties, full body compound-based routines can add a lot of muscle when diet is down. They can work beautifully.
[quote]derek wrote:
I have to wholeheartedly agree with the picture-posting and the need to put up or shut up.
If I had a picture that showed how good I looked and that could put and end to this debate or at the very LEAST add some credence to my side of the debate, I’d damn well put it up.
This notion of “I don’t care what you guys think” or “I have nothing to prove to a bunch of anonymous assholes” carries NO water at all.
If you have a picture, put it up. If you don’t, get one and put it up.
It boils down to this; post a pic now or quit telling us how superior TBT is.
There, I said it. [/quote]
I don’t have a picture, and I don’t own a camera. I suck at computers and, like I said, wouldn’t put one up if I had one. I have posted my stats. This isn’t personal and I never claimed to have achieved my goals.
[quote]trextacy wrote:
BTW, here is a natty pro who uses full body Waterbury programs to add mass in the office season, then switches to splits when in season:
Pretty interesting.[/quote]
Impressive - no doubt.
Chalk one for CW.
[quote]trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I don’t have my pics up because there is no point in putting myself on the internet in my underwear flexing my muscles. Seriously. What possible purpose could that serve?
Also, on this point, it serves the purpose of showing you even have the slightest clue what you are talking about (which we all know by now you don’t).
I’ll post my picture here if you will.
You are being ridiculous. I know what I’m talking about, and posting pictures of myself on the internet doesn’t/won’t change anything. There are gigantic guys who don’t know shit. I’ve already posted my stats…why don’t you post yours?
Nothing you have said refutes anything I’ve said. You are advanced, so you do a split. I think that a full-body/frequency approach focusing on compounds and building an appreciable amount of strength is optimum, with a shift towards splits once that has been achieved. For the life of me I can’t see what is so fucking controversial, idiotic, stupid, etc. about that.
[/quote]
I did splits from the start, as a beginner weighing 150lbs.
Most of the regulars here have seen my pics. They know what I look like. The only ones who don’t are people new to the forums.
What I am getting at is that it is NO coincidence that most of the TBT fan boys on this site are also some of the smallest and least developed lifters.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You’re an idiot. I have been lifting for nearly 15 years and I look like it. I don’t do some movements now because I have MOVED PAST doing them safely without a spotter because of the weight used now.
To look at what I am doing right this moment ignores the SEVERAL YEARS I spent doing squats, regular barbell benchpress, dumbbell presses, military presses using the barbell and yes, even deadlifts.
Things like this need to be explained to you because you are a newbie. You don’t understand what has built the most size because your perspective has been largely based on that held by the authors you build cults around.
None of that was “pump training” and nothing I do now is “pump training”. I lift HEAVY, way heavier than anyone else I see at the gym lately and use more machines now because of the safety issue. I first benched 405lbs about a decade ago. Let me know when you EVER reach that.[/quote]
Trex, why did you avoid this post? You’ve been accusing me of not only lying but of not training the way I claim through this entire thread. if you are going to call me out like that, expect the same in return.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You’re an idiot. I have been lifting for nearly 15 years and I look like it. I don’t do some movements now because I have MOVED PAST doing them safely without a spotter because of the weight used now.
To look at what I am doing right this moment ignores the SEVERAL YEARS I spent doing squats, regular barbell benchpress, dumbbell presses, military presses using the barbell and yes, even deadlifts.
Things like this need to be explained to you because you are a newbie. You don’t understand what has built the most size because your perspective has been largely based on that held by the authors you build cults around.
None of that was “pump training” and nothing I do now is “pump training”. I lift HEAVY, way heavier than anyone else I see at the gym lately and use more machines now because of the safety issue. I first benched 405lbs about a decade ago. Let me know when you EVER reach that.
Trex, why did you avoid this post? You’ve been accusing me of not only lying but of not training the way I claim through this entire thread. if you are going to call me out like that, expect the same in return.[/quote]
I can only keep up with so much. Since most posts begin with calling me an idiot, it’s hard to keep track of them all.
I believe I’ve said several times that your training demonstrates that there is a progression and that the stronger you got the more you could split things up or get away from compounds. Sure, you started with splits, but if you’d started with a full body routine like the one I’d outlined above, who knows how fast you would’ve progressed?
You could’ve trained bodyparts more frequently and with heavier poundages because you would only be doing a few sets for that muscle during that workout rather than 15.
You are advanced. You use a split. I have NEVER said that splits weren’t appropriate for advanced people. Just because you started with a split doesn’t mean it’s the best or optimum either-- “working” is not the same as “working optimally”.
To be clear- I only think you’ve been “lying” regarding your routine being focused around compounds.
I will be sure to let you know when I hit 405 on the bench.
Can we get a definition of “compound” movement trextacy? For instance, how on earth can you possibly claim that a hammer strength military press is not a compound movement but a barbell military press is?
Does the exact same movement (albeit with a machine versus freeweight) somehow magically take out the “compoundness” of the exercise? Please explain.