[quote]derek wrote:
Look at it this way, if someone was paying you $500,000 to gain 30 lbs naturally in a year, how would you train?[/quote]
I wouldn’t train, I’d just eat. 
[quote]forbes wrote:
and many of you will REALLY hate me for doing this (above and beyond the hate towards me now), but i must quote something CW said in the training split roundtable:
"Professional bodybuilders typically don’t follow total body routines because they don’t need to. If I’m born with the natural ability to drop into the full splits, I’m not going to spend my time stretching my adductors and hamstrings. And if I’m born with the ability to build huge quads, calves, and traps with minimal training, then I’m not going to spend my time training them either.[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what? Is there anyone here who thinks pro bodybuilders are NOT training quads, traps and calves? What is that last sentence even supposed to mean? Who the fuck is avoiding these muscle groups? Minimal training? You all see a video of Ronnie Coleman train his legs and that looks MINIMAL to you? Are you guys fucking blind?
Whatever a trainer writes, you all just blindly take as gospel, huh?
[quote]
The majority of T-Nation readers, however, need to add muscle everywhere, not just to specific areas. And that’s where total body training becomes the best option. I don’t care what professional bodybuilders do unless whoever I’m working with is already at that level."[/quote]
Wait, you think splits don’t add size all over? I have ONLY trained using a split routine from start to finish. Are you saying I have NOT grown all over and gotten stronger all over?
Are you really that much of a fanboy that you can’t think for yourself?
[quote]forbes wrote:
you see, i agree with you. and this is what im trying to say. when you’re trying to develop a stength and size BASE, then TBT all the way. i do agree that when you begin to put up big numbers, THEN (and only then) is it appropriate to “split” things up.[/quote]
Uh, then how do you explain all of the really strong people who have trained with splits from the start?
[quote]forbes wrote:
you see, i agree with you. and this is what im trying to say. when you’re trying to develop a stength and size BASE, then TBT all the way. i do agree that when you begin to put up big numbers, THEN (and only then) is it appropriate to “split” things up.[/quote]
I for one do see your point and I think you ended up making it pretty well (or I did and you agreed with what I said). Although I’m not convinced that starting out with TBT is better than starting out with splits, that’s how I start beginner clients and that’s also the way I started out so many years ago.
But I have to agree with X in that most of us here are trying to be the guy that people say “holy shit!” about, not the type that makes someone ask “so, you look like you might work out.”
(slight edit)
I’ve done both Splits and TBT , for some reason my body reacts better to TBT. In the last year I have done full body workouts exclusively and made the best gains of my life. The bottom line is this…
Arguing whats better between splits and TBT is like arguing whats better between bench press with a barbell or bench press with dumbbells? The answer is there both proven to be affective , but some people might have a preference .
Try both and do whats best for YOU , not what is better for SOMEONE ELSE.
Here’s Ronnie Coleman doing his MINIMAL legs routine…as Waterbury claims:
Yep, must be a light day.
Here’s Ronnie Coleman doing a MINIMAL 800lbs squat:
Yep, Waterbury sure can call 'em.
Some of you are just slow and Petarded.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Some of you are just slow and Petarded.[/quote]
LOL!
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
Arguing whats better between splits and TBT is like arguing whats better between bench press with a barbell or bench press with dumbbells?. [/quote]
No, it isn’t. How can it be when we can see half a century of bodybuilders who trained a certain way and most who train the other rarely ever reach anywhere near that size?
What are your stats?
Oooooooh, Ronnie’s MINIMAL hamstring routine.
Yep, look how little attention he gives his legs. How did he ever get them so huge when he HARDLY trains them?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:
Uh, then how do you explain all of the really strong people who have trained with splits from the start?[/quote]
maybe they had better work capacities and lactate thresholds. you see, maybe they could handle multiple sets of squats, leg press and leg extensions for their quads. maybe they’re gifted in handling such volume for each muscle group. i for one cant.
i tried a split routine, hitting each muscle group once a week with 12 sets. all that did was burn me out and got me nowhere.
i switch to TBT, hit each muscle group more often with high intensity and moderate volume, and things turn out better.
i want to make this clear…thats for ME! NOT YOU.
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
The answer is there both proven to be affective , but some people might have a preference .
Try both and do whats best for YOU , not what is better for SOMEONE ELSE. [/quote]
I’d agree with you here but when you look at the numbers, they tell you something.
Most people that jump from a plane and have thier parachutes fail hit the ground and die.
I’ve heard where someone jumped out of a plane only to bounce off the ground at 120mph and live but that doesn’t make me think I’m going to be the next exception.
[quote]forbes wrote:
Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:
Uh, then how do you explain all of the really strong people who have trained with splits from the start?
maybe they had better work capacities and lactate thresholds. you see, maybe they could handle multiple sets of squats, leg press and leg extensions for their quads. maybe they’re gifted in handling such volume for each muscle group. i for one cant.
i tried a split routine, hitting each muscle group once a week with 12 sets. all that did was burn me out and got me nowhere.
i switch to TBT, hit each muscle group more often with high intensity and moderate volume, and things turn out better.
i want to make this clear…thats for ME! NOT YOU.[/quote]
This is bodybuilding. There is no focus on people who simply can not see progress above average. You must be looking for the Gen. Fitness forum.
Many of you get lost here with the false belief that bodybuilding is about barely looking like you lift after 10 years.
Pictures would put this to bed.
[quote]derek wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
The answer is there both proven to be affective , but some people might have a preference .
Try both and do whats best for YOU , not what is better for SOMEONE ELSE.
I’d agree with you here but when you look at the numbers, it tells you something.
Most people that jump from a plane and have thier parachutes fail hit the ground and die.
I’ve heard where someone jumped out of a plane only to bounce off the ground at 120mph and live but that doesn’t make me think I’m going to be the next exception.
[/quote]
Good post.
The odds of getting hit by lightening are about the same as winning the lottery…therefore, most of us are most likely to get hit by lightening today?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
Arguing whats better between splits and TBT is like arguing whats better between bench press with a barbell or bench press with dumbbells?.
No, it isn’t. How can it be when we can see half a century of bodybuilders who trained a certain way and most who train the other rarely ever reach anywhere near that size?
What are your stats?[/quote]
I’m talking in regards to the average person who works full time and is trying to get in shape. I understand splits are better for someone who is a bodybuilder , but why compare an average person to someone who lives a bodybuilding lifestyle? If the OP falls into the “average person” then the answer is there both effective. I would know , I fall into that category , and have made significant gains doing splits and TBT , in particular TBT programs.
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
Professor X wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
Arguing whats better between splits and TBT is like arguing whats better between bench press with a barbell or bench press with dumbbells?.
No, it isn’t. How can it be when we can see half a century of bodybuilders who trained a certain way and most who train the other rarely ever reach anywhere near that size?
What are your stats?
I’m talking in regards to the average person who works full time and is trying to get in shape. I understand splits are better for someone who is a bodybuilder , but why compare an average person to someone who lives a bodybuilding lifestyle? If the OP falls into the “average person” then the answer is there both effective. I would know , I fall into that category , and have made significant gains doing splits and TBT , in particular TBT programs. [/quote]
I work full time and do splits. I may or may not compete, but one thing I do know is that people KNOW I lift when they see me no matter what I have on.
Are you truly under the delusion that you can’t live a bodybuilding lifestyle and have a job?
Why are some of you on this site if your goals are that minimal?
Shit forbes, you even mentioned steve reeves…
NOW PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THAT DUDE LOOKS EVEN REMOTELY BIG ?
Oliva did not do the Waterbury kind of 2-4 exercises for the whole body-TBT, but Arthur Jone’s 10-12 exercises per session kind of TBT…
And mentioning him completely goes AGAINST your argument that average joes benefit more from tbt than splits, because OLIVA WAS THE MOST GENETICALLY GIFTED PERSON IN ABOUT 50 FUCKING YEARS.
All the other guys are nothing compared to what’s possible today… even though most/all were on drugs, today’s natties (the ones that aren’t total pussies) can reach the same levels of size, if not more.
How big are you again, and how many people have you trained successfully ?
Seeing that you know exactly what kind of routines are best for average people and all…
Is anyone else noticing these guys are NOT bodybuilding but are logging into a bodybuilding forum to discuss what “average people” should do to “get in shape”?
There must be thousands of websites for average couch potatoes who are just looking to lose 10lbs. Why the fuck are any of you HERE?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
Professor X wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
Arguing whats better between splits and TBT is like arguing whats better between bench press with a barbell or bench press with dumbbells?.
No, it isn’t. How can it be when we can see half a century of bodybuilders who trained a certain way and most who train the other rarely ever reach anywhere near that size?
What are your stats?
I’m talking in regards to the average person who works full time and is trying to get in shape. I understand splits are better for someone who is a bodybuilder , but why compare an average person to someone who lives a bodybuilding lifestyle? If the OP falls into the “average person” then the answer is there both effective. I would know , I fall into that category , and have made significant gains doing splits and TBT , in particular TBT programs.
I work full time and do splits. I may or may not compete, but one thing I do know is that people KNOW I lift when they see me no matter what I have on.
Are you truly under the delusion that you can’t live a bodybuilding lifestyle and have a job?
Why are some of you on this site if your goals are that minimal?
[/quote]
I fall into the same category that people “know” I lift. I’m 6’3" 220lbs (Don’t know my BF% but I’m lean and my abs are almost showing). I’m not AGAINST splits , I am saying I personally have made the most gains while doing TBT workouts. I eat very well , consume whey shakes and Fish oil , workout my muscles 3x week , and have made significant progress. For me personally , my muscles grow more when hit with frequency rather then volume. Maybe your different , if so then do splits. But to say splits are better the TBT for the average person is not true. How do I know this? Because i’m living proof.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Is anyone else noticing these guys are NOT bodybuilding but are logging into a bodybuilding forum to discuss what “average people” should do to “get in shape”?
There must be thousands of websites for average couch potatoes who are just looking to lose 10lbs. Why the fuck are any of you HERE?[/quote]
Well, they read some articles and now think that this is the shit, while men’s health is now “out”.
They want to be part of the cool crowd, maybe ?
I find it hilarious that they see any difference between themselves and men’s health/fitness readers and the whole bunch…
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
Professor X wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
Professor X wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
Arguing whats better between splits and TBT is like arguing whats better between bench press with a barbell or bench press with dumbbells?.
No, it isn’t. How can it be when we can see half a century of bodybuilders who trained a certain way and most who train the other rarely ever reach anywhere near that size?
What are your stats?
I’m talking in regards to the average person who works full time and is trying to get in shape. I understand splits are better for someone who is a bodybuilder , but why compare an average person to someone who lives a bodybuilding lifestyle? If the OP falls into the “average person” then the answer is there both effective. I would know , I fall into that category , and have made significant gains doing splits and TBT , in particular TBT programs.
I work full time and do splits. I may or may not compete, but one thing I do know is that people KNOW I lift when they see me no matter what I have on.
Are you truly under the delusion that you can’t live a bodybuilding lifestyle and have a job?
Why are some of you on this site if your goals are that minimal?
I fall into the same category that people “know” I lift. I’m 6’3" 220lbs (Don’t know my BF% but I’m lean and my abs are almost showing). I’m not AGAINST splits , I am saying I personally have made the most gains while doing TBT workouts. I eat very well , consume whey shakes and Fish oil , workout my muscles 3x week , and have made significant progress. For me personally , my muscles grow more when hit with frequency rather then volume. Maybe your different , if so then do splits. But to say splits are better the TBT for the average person is not true. How do I know this? Because i’m living proof. [/quote]
I applaud anyone making “progress”, but at 220lbs at 6 foot 3, you are NOT that big at all. You may be more muscular than the average person who doesn’t lift regularly, but this site isn’t about being average.
You are tall as hell. Big for you would be upwards of 250lbs.