Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
321

It depends on their recovery abilities. A lot of splits repeat every 5 days or so, so you could call that 2x per week but that wouldnt be entirely accurate. Still, its a lot longer than every 2 days. So you’re training a muscle group with more than double the rest of a tbt exercise.

You have to take into account the combined taxation on the body by all the exercises being completed in one sitting. You also get a cumulative effect carried over to each training session to due the intensity of the previous. Which is why you cant go all out in TBT and expect to continue that intensity indefinitely between workouts.

The question now becomes whether the lack of all out intensity between TBT workouts is offset by the frequency, or whether split training intensity negates the effects of an infrequent training regime (in comparison to TBT).

One thing to mention is the anabolic effect of training muscle groups which are different to the ones trained in a previous session with spilts. If, during training, working legs triggers GH and Test release throughout the body, then those other muscle recovering from previous bouts will be able to utilise this. So that would work to further offset the negative effects (from a TBT point of view) for the extended rest times.

Thats my thoughts anyway. Please shoot me down if that sounds wrong.

322

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:
I have not read this entire thread, but one point people fail to mention. Steroids greatly increase the muscle’s ability to recover. Why would it be necessary to be on a split to make steroids effective?

Steroids would allow TBT to more effective due to the greater recovery ability. It is the exact opposite of what a lot of people are claiming.

When you are natural and strong and recruiting a large number of motor units you need a decent amount of time to recover, whether that is 3-7 days depends on a lot of factors. So if TBT was awesome for size, it would work even better when on juice, not the other way around.

I am quite sure you know much more about training than I do, but I don’t think that your logic makes sense here. Recovery from the complete decimation of a muscle group in a split is a different animal than recovery when you haven’t trained to failure 3x per week.

This is illustrated by the fact that it takes longer to recover from 15 sets in 1 session than it does 15 sets spread out over 3 sessions.

Hypothetically, it would allow someone to apply that extreme level of damage to their muscles and STILL train them 2x per week (hence the 6-day, each muscle 2x per week split that used to be more popular with pro bb-ers).

So, if assistance is in the mix, your split does not sacrifice as much on frequency (you get the best of both worlds). On a full body approach, the recovery-aiding properties of AAS does not provide as much help because recovery is already “managed” in a full body routine and there is frequency.

And just fyi, if you go back and look at the thread, NO ONE ever said that steriods were “necessary” for a split to work. Prof twisted a post where I said splits “may work particularly well” when steroids are involved and he responded something to the effect of “LOL I’m falling out of my chair because you said steriods are necessary for splits to work!” then acted like that was the only way to take my post.

wtf.

[/quote]

Two things:

First, I’ve watched many pro bodybuilding training videos and there splits are generally every muscle once per week.

Second, you’re a fucking idiot if you can not see the logic behind Tim’s post.

323

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Seriously, GTFO

You’re hurting my brain from all of your stupidity.

Just stop.

No one cares. Do you’re CW sucking elsewhere.[/quote]

“Braaaaaaains!”

:wink:

324

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:
I have not read this entire thread, but one point people fail to mention. Steroids greatly increase the muscle’s ability to recover. Why would it be necessary to be on a split to make steroids effective?

Steroids would allow TBT to more effective due to the greater recovery ability. It is the exact opposite of what a lot of people are claiming.

When you are natural and strong and recruiting a large number of motor units you need a decent amount of time to recover, whether that is 3-7 days depends on a lot of factors. So if TBT was awesome for size, it would work even better when on juice, not the other way around.

I am quite sure you know much more about training than I do, but I don’t think that your logic makes sense here. Recovery from the complete decimation of a muscle group in a split is a different animal than recovery when you haven’t trained to failure 3x per week.

This is illustrated by the fact that it takes longer to recover from 15 sets in 1 session than it does 15 sets spread out over 3 sessions.

Hypothetically, it would allow someone to apply that extreme level of damage to their muscles and STILL train them 2x per week (hence the 6-day, each muscle 2x per week split that used to be more popular with pro bb-ers).

So, if assistance is in the mix, your split does not sacrifice as much on frequency (you get the best of both worlds). On a full body approach, the recovery-aiding properties of AAS does not provide as much help because recovery is already “managed” in a full body routine and there is frequency.

And just fyi, if you go back and look at the thread, NO ONE ever said that steriods were “necessary” for a split to work. Prof twisted a post where I said splits “may work particularly well” when steroids are involved and he responded something to the effect of “LOL I’m falling out of my chair because you said steriods are necessary for splits to work!” then acted like that was the only way to take my post.

wtf.

Two things:

First, I’ve watched many pro bodybuilding training videos and there splits are generally every muscle once per week.

Second, you’re a fucking idiot if you can not see the logic behind Tim’s post.[/quote]

Logic, my friend, has left the building long ago.

325


Ronnie Coleman needs to do Overhead Pressing after doing 800lb Squats.

326

[quote]Neebone wrote:
“Well it works for me so I’m fine doing it this way”

It amazes me how blindy people will follow a belief system just because its what they’ve been doing for a while. Its like they’re world will collapse if they even acknowledge that theres a possiblity that they may be wrong or theres a better way.

Forget discussing intensity, fibre recruitment and all the other technical shit. Get two groups of guys. Let one use a good TBT routine, the other a good split routine. Which group will make the best gains? Answers on a postcard please.[/quote]

It’s one thing to be close-minded about aspects of training that are different from what you’re doing right now, and quite another to stick with what’s worked best for you in the past.

I mean, what works well for most may work for me. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire, and if it’s worked for a lot of people, then there’s good reason to try it. But if I try it and it doesn’t work, or if it doesn’t work as well as something else I’ve used in the past, why would I continue to use it?

327

Simple.
Are you Doing your training Balls to the wall? Are you EATING Enough to promote LBM gains? Are you getting strong, and visualy bigger?Then keep doing IT. if not, change it. TRY. lol, splt x tbt , it changes dramastcly from people to people. But i realy like this thread, it shows the opinion of every one, but every time i see SPLITs win.

328

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Ronnie Coleman needs to do Overhead Pressing after doing 800lb Squats.[/quote]

this has been addressed. ronnie is advanced and on roids (though the roid issue is irrelevant because he’s so advanced). splits are best for ronnie b/c he’s an advanced lifter. read before typing a response.

also, by that rationale i guess you are comparing yourself to ronnie? lo-mf’n-l

329

[quote]ricardowesley wrote:
Simple.
Are you Doing your training Balls to the wall? Are you EATING Enough to promote LBM gains? Are you getting strong, and visualy bigger?Then keep doing IT. if not, change it. TRY. lol, splt x tbt , it changes dramastcly from people to people. But i realy like this thread, it shows the opinion of every one, but every time i see SPLITs win.[/quote]

A strange coincidence indeed.

330

The part that doesn�??t make sense to me for the guys arguing on the split side of things is the claim you lose focus and intensity by switching to an unrelated body part. To me it is easier to maintain intensity switching and doing a different movement in a single workout.

Now, I haven�??t done a total body workout in probably 8 years, but do train dissimilar body parts together. After Ronnie does 800 pound squats, you think it would be easier to do 2300 pound leg presses or move on to shoulders?

For me, if I train a fresh body part its easier to stay focused and intense, instead of training something that is already tired. Now I agree with the results side of things, it obviously works, but not the intensity argument.

I use changing body parts in a workout as a way to keep up intensity. Some times I�??ll even go onto something else before I�??m through with the first part and come back to it at the end when it�??s had time to rest so I can make the last exercise worth while.

331

"What kind of mind ignores real world results in majority to focus on theory? If you have to rationalize the gains others are seeing by writing it off as simply related to drug use or genetics, you may want to check why you feel the need to do so.

Anabolics would aid in recovery…so why do they think the best in the world would choose a routine that worked LESS efficiently to build muscle mass? Does this really make sense to people? They really think we are hitting the gym several days a week because we are too stupid to know better?"

i have books in my house that claim these exact things about bodybuilders. not written by unknown names, i might add.

how they can claim a system no one uses at high level is just as or more effective, and still remain somewhat respected, i dont know.

training football players, and what they are fed, has changed over the years. no one claims the old methods are better, and recommends a return to them.

332

I normaly follow upper/lower ( the middle of tbt and splt? lol) . but to say the true if i analyse i can say that sometimes i think i don´t recover properly, so every ,4-6weeks,now i deload, doing maybe a splt or a tbt. It all depends on how you manage the life around your workout, if you eat aproperly and rest aproperly, maybe just maybe every one would progress without the need to over analise. Just one question in term of strength progression,splts or tbt? i somehow see people incresing ther strength more on split, the oposite of commum sense.

333

[quote]trextacy wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Ronnie Coleman needs to do Overhead Pressing after doing 800lb Squats.

this has been addressed. ronnie is advanced and on roids (though the roid issue is irrelevant because he’s so advanced). splits are best for ronnie b/c he’s an advanced lifter. read before typing a response.

also, by that rationale i guess you are comparing yourself to ronnie? lo-mf’n-l[/quote]

No I’m comparing him to a french mexican catcus man

334

[quote]mrw173 wrote:
Neebone wrote:
“Well it works for me so I’m fine doing it this way”

It amazes me how blindy people will follow a belief system just because its what they’ve been doing for a while. Its like they’re world will collapse if they even acknowledge that theres a possiblity that they may be wrong or theres a better way.

Forget discussing intensity, fibre recruitment and all the other technical shit. Get two groups of guys. Let one use a good TBT routine, the other a good split routine. Which group will make the best gains? Answers on a postcard please.

It’s one thing to be close-minded about aspects of training that are different from what you’re doing right now, and quite another to stick with what’s worked best for you in the past.

I mean, what works well for most may work for me. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire, and if it’s worked for a lot of people, then there’s good reason to try it. But if I try it and it doesn’t work, or if it doesn’t work as well as something else I’ve used in the past, why would I continue to use it?[/quote]

As far as that last sentence, a beginner would first need to look at food intake and whether they are training hard enough FIRST before they make any decisions about what works and what doesn’t. Many of these guys, like one of the main ones arguing for TBT, refuse to eat enough to grow or think eating every 2-3 hours is too much of a chore. That would make the specific routine they are doing POINTLESS to begin with.

That is actually what bothers me most. Most of these guys don’t even plan on making much progress. They are the new aged weekend warriors…only they come a couple of days that aren’t on the weekend. They think eating a lot is gross and that big muscles mean you don’t know how to lift. Idiots like this are a waste of space in the gym AND on this site.

I don’t know, if I had tiny arms and had to blame “drugs&genetics” for why others were seeing progress, I would feel like a loser. These dumbasses actually think they are more intelligent.

If you grow off of TBT, fine. Let’s just stop pretending like it is superior or that beginners need to be shuttled into it like some generic program. Splits never needed an introduction through TBT. There are way too many idiots acting like this now.

335

[quote]trextacy wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Ronnie Coleman needs to do Overhead Pressing after doing 800lb Squats.

this has been addressed. ronnie is advanced and on roids (though the roid issue is irrelevant because he’s so advanced). splits are best for ronnie b/c he’s an advanced lifter. read before typing a response.

also, by that rationale i guess you are comparing yourself to ronnie? lo-mf’n-l[/quote]

Ronnie’s training is because of the sport he is in and condusive to his goals. If he was training to be a fighter or an olympic sprinter, collage/nfl football player he would use more of an exposive TBT type workout.

I dont think this is why this thread was created. As I stated yesterday I think a TBT applied to BB would be benificial for cutting before a show…Unless you truely like to spin you wheels on the treadmill or stair master…

336

what an annoying thread this has turned out to be. So many people are so one-sided they’re insulting people as if that proves their point. Grow up.

TBT works for many people. Is it the best for someone who’s advanced? Probably not…or else they’d probably be doing it. but it can still be great for beginners/intermediates. So can splits. Damn…

337

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
what an annoying thread this has turned out to be. So many people are so one-sided they’re insulting people as if that proves their point. Grow up.

TBT works for many people. Is it the best for someone who’s advanced? Probably not…or else they’d probably be doing it. but it can still be great for beginners/intermediates. So can splits. Damn… [/quote]

What’s annoying is that most of the people in favor of TBT are not using logic behind there posts. They ignore real world results, and can not give adequate proof that it is very effective except for a couple of random exceptions.

I could make a list takeing up pages of people who have successfully used a split to build a great physique. Could you do the same for TBT? This isn’t about what works and what doesn’t because obviously lifting something will give you results, however, this is about what works best.

338

Splits are the best.

339

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
what an annoying thread this has turned out to be. So many people are so one-sided they’re insulting people as if that proves their point. Grow up.

TBT works for many people. Is it the best for someone who’s advanced? Probably not…or else they’d probably be doing it. but it can still be great for beginners/intermediates. So can splits. Damn…

What’s annoying is that most of the people in favor of TBT are not using logic behind there posts. They ignore real world results, and can not give adequate proof that it is very effective except for a couple of random exceptions.

I could make a list takeing up pages of people who have successfully used a split to build a great physique. Could you do the same for TBT? This isn’t about what works and what doesn’t because obviously lifting something will give you results, however, this is about what works best.[/quote]

List of people who use splits and reached heavyweight status:
Toney Freeman
Gustavo Badell
Phil Heath
Silvio Samuel
Desmond Miller
Troy Alves
Johnnie Jackson
Eddie Abbew
Khalid Almohsinawi
Ray Arde
Paul Baker
Troy Brown
Rodney Davis
Omar Deckard
Alfonso del Rio
Moe Elmoussawi
Deshaun Grimez
David Henry
Rusty Jeffers
King Kamali
Vincent Liu
JoJo Ntiforo
Sergey Ogorodnikov
Gian Enrico Pica
Armin Scholz
Jimmy Canyon
Ken Jones
Will Harris
Mehmet Yildirim
Dragan Paunovic
Neset Icl
Chris Cormier
Kenny (Flex) Wheeler
Dexter Jackson
Gunter Schlierkamp
Darrem Charles
Dennis James
Claude Groulx
Anthony (Wolf) Williams
Charles Kemp
Dave Fisher
Ahmad Haidar
Jocelyn Pelletier
Bob Weatherall
Jostein Oedegaarden
Ntuk Ntuk
Mark Lampard
Sylvester Solomon
Fauzi Hanst
Rod Ketchens
Milton Holloway, Jr.
Kenny (Flex) Wheeler
Darrem Charles
Aaron Baker
Patrick Lynn
Renel Janvier
Dennis Newman
Daryl Stafford
Kevin O’Grady
Grant Clemensha
Michio Grubbs
Roland Kickinger
Jeffrey Long
Greg Kovacs
Mohamed El Makkawy
Ken Jones
Alessandro Komadina
B.J. Johns
Max Shamayo
Kenny (Flex) Wheeler
Lee Priest
Ronnie Coleman
Aaron Baker
Paul Dillett
Alq’ Gurley
Patrick Lynn
Eddie Robinson
Henderson Thorne
Bruce Patterson
Ian Harrison
Gunter Schlierkamp
Roland Kickinger
Jeffrey Long
Fauzi Hanst
Mohamed El Makkawy
Joe Spinello
B.J. Johns
Max Shamayo
Shawn Ray
Mike Ashley
Vince Comerford
Gary Strydom
J. J. Marsh
Nimrod King
Steve Brisbois
Tony Pearson
Pavol Jablonicky
Harry Dinger
Mohammed Benaziza
Wilhelm Jasinowski
Bob Paris
Selwyn Cottrell
Ricardo Gya
Kevin McGaunn
Van Smith
Michel DeVitis
Katsumi Ishimura
John Brown

The list of people who got HUGE doing TBT specifically:

Insert here.

340

[quote]Professor X wrote:
mrw173 wrote:
Neebone wrote:
“Well it works for me so I’m fine doing it this way”

It amazes me how blindy people will follow a belief system just because its what they’ve been doing for a while. Its like they’re world will collapse if they even acknowledge that theres a possiblity that they may be wrong or theres a better way.

Forget discussing intensity, fibre recruitment and all the other technical shit. Get two groups of guys. Let one use a good TBT routine, the other a good split routine. Which group will make the best gains? Answers on a postcard please.

It’s one thing to be close-minded about aspects of training that are different from what you’re doing right now, and quite another to stick with what’s worked best for you in the past.

I mean, what works well for most may work for me. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire, and if it’s worked for a lot of people, then there’s good reason to try it. But if I try it and it doesn’t work, or if it doesn’t work as well as something else I’ve used in the past, why would I continue to use it?

As far as that last sentence, a beginner would first need to look at food intake and whether they are training hard enough FIRST before they make any decisions about what works and what doesn’t. Many of these guys, like one of the main ones arguing for TBT, refuse to eat enough to grow or think eating every 2-3 hours is too much of a chore. That would make the specific routine they are doing POINTLESS to begin with.

That is actually what bothers me most. Most of these guys don’t even plan on making much progress. They are the new aged weekend warriors…only they come a couple of days that aren’t on the weekend. They think eating a lot is gross and that big muscles mean you don’t know how to lift. Idiots like this are a waste of space in the gym AND on this site.

I don’t know, if I had tiny arms and had to blame “drugs&genetics” for why others were seeing progress, I would feel like a loser. These dumbasses actually think they are more intelligent.

If you grow off of TBT, fine. Let’s just stop pretending like it is superior or that beginners need to be shuttled into it like some generic program. Splits never needed an introduction through TBT. There are way too many idiots acting like this now.[/quote]

I agree with that. What I’m saying is that IF one is experiencing gains that they are happy with, why would they want to change things up? Now obviously a beginner would, in the grand scheme of things, know much less about “what works for their body” than an advanced trainee. As a result, changing things up may be something that is required in the future. The only thing I have to go on right now is how I am progressing at the moment, though.