Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
241

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Here’s the real issue here though pumped340… I would be willing to bet we could name 100 people who train on a split of some kind who can bench over 405 to every 1 you can name who has done it exclusively(key) with full body training. Does the overwhelming quantity of people mean anything to you?[/quote]

Since powerlifters work the whole body, I doubt this is true. If you are using extreme loads, then the “pump” and volume for volume’s sake style of split training is not likely to lead to big numhers.

If you nuance it to say “a split of some kind” as you’ve done, you have an “out” but that is simply wordsmithing it. This isn’t entire body vs. everything else…this is a discussion about whether “traditional bodybuilding” style split training is superior than full body for building muscle.

242

Banana splits are useless for a bodybuilder.

243

[quote]hypnotoad wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

i guess my point is that the more advanced the musculature becomes, and the more taxing each exercise becomes, the further people drift from total body workouts.

[/quote]

and thats what im trying to say, but these people are too hard headed and keep thinking im a total TBT nut and absolutely hate splits.

244

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Banana splits are useless for a bodybuilder.[/quote]

I have to agree…

245

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Banana splits are useless for a bodybuilder.[/quote]

Not even when bulking? Well, I will take no part in a sport that shuns the banana split.

246

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
i dont know why some are assuming full body has to have just a few compounds or low volume.

You could do full body routines 4x a week for more volume.

or you could include sets for any muscle group.
lets say you do
squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls

all for 3 sets. Your doing 21 sets which one could easily complete in an hour and your getting 9 sets per body part a week which is sufficient for most people, including those with a lot of experience. If you need a little more add a 4th set to the bigger exercises and tell me thats not enough. Like i said i like splits but i dont like how some are assuming you cant have more volume or isolations in TBT.

If you can do squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls

All in one workout, your intensity SUCKS and I am betting your overall development isn’t exactly making people move out of the way.

That is not a true statement. You know that. Read the article I provided in my prior post.

Steve Reeves’ training sessions lasted 2-4 hours at a time.

Reg Park’s FB workout prior to Mr. Universe was 5x10 for all exercises.

Most of these guys went to failure and used isolation movements.

Point is- don’t conflate full body 3x per week training with the anti-failure, low intensity, low volume, anti-isolation movement folks.

Steeve Reeves and Reg Park were also smaller than Professor-X.
Especially Reeves.

You still have not reacted to the little fact that all these guys were not even drug-free.

Oliva admitted his own and the other guys’ drug use later on.

How big are you again?

#Edit: WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TRAIN 2-4 HOURS IF YOU COULD ACCOMPLISH THE SAME OR MORE IN WAY LESS TIME?

[/quote]

Frank Zane was probably “smaller” than X too. Not sure your point. I doubt X shares your lack of respect for those guys acheivements in the sport.

Oliva used. I have never read anything to suggest that Reeves used. He was pre-steroids. I will stand corrected if you can prove otherwise (that goes for Grimek and Park too).

I am about 6’2", 205-210, down about 20 lbs as I am leaning out at the moment. I fully understand that you will consider me to be small.

247

[quote]hypnotoad wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

how do you know without trying it?

Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.

Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies.

that last line seems to be the issue here. im one of the newbies, but all you have to do is read a little bit about training to understand why pro’s, more or less en masse, moved away from tbt to splits.

at a point, the muscles need more and a greater variety of stimulation. arnold built a lot of chest mass from benching, but he said himself it didnt reach its fullest development until he added inlcine work, dumbell work, various fly movements, etc. how can you do 4-5 exercises per bodypart in one workout, and have them all be effective? those aold time tbt guys, really didnt have the development of the guys in the next generation, who relied on split routines. even more so today when the body is split up even more in training (generally).

also, here is a sergio olivia routine www.ironage.us/fineprint/fineprint2.html

doesnt seem like total body to me, but who knows whether its real or just made up by the magazine.

i guess my point is that the more advanced the musculature becomes, and the more taxing each exercise becomes, the further people drift from total body workouts.

[/quote]

As to that last part-- I agree…the fact is that only a small percentage of people here are to the point where they lift so much weight on the compounds that they HAVE to split up their body to stimulate growth.

248

[quote]Professor X wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
i dont know why some are assuming full body has to have just a few compounds or low volume.

You could do full body routines 4x a week for more volume.

or you could include sets for any muscle group.
lets say you do
squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls

all for 3 sets. Your doing 21 sets which one could easily complete in an hour and your getting 9 sets per body part a week which is sufficient for most people, including those with a lot of experience. If you need a little more add a 4th set to the bigger exercises and tell me thats not enough. Like i said i like splits but i dont like how some are assuming you cant have more volume or isolations in TBT.

If you can do squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls

All in one workout, your intensity SUCKS and I am betting your overall development isn’t exactly making people move out of the way.

That is not a true statement. You know that. Read the article I provided in my prior post.

Steve Reeves’ training sessions lasted 2-4 hours at a time.

Reg Park’s FB workout prior to Mr. Universe was 5x10 for all exercises.

Most of these guys went to failure and used isolation movements.

Point is- don’t conflate full body 3x per week training with the anti-failure, low intensity, low volume, anti-isolation movement folks.

…and you think training for 4 hours is the same as what these guys are doing right now?

Wait, I almost laughed myself out of this chair.

Everyone here who trains with TBT 3 times a week for 4 hours at a time…raise your hand, please![/quote]

I never said that or even implied it. I’m saying that the arguments against full body are making assumptions that aren’t necessarily true (i.e. that they are low volume, anti-failure, etc.).

Waterbury is not the first, or last, word in full body training notwithstanding what recent history on this one website would suggest. Bill Starr, Mark Rippetoe and many others would agree.

249

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Banana splits are useless for a bodybuilder.

Not even when bulking? Well, I will take no part in a sport that shuns the banana split.[/quote]

No protein. It breaks all the rules.

250

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Do you TBT-fans all think Ronnie Coleman isn’t following up his 800lbs squats with overhead presses because he’s lazy?[/quote]

he follows it up with loads of other leg exerices which would be even more taxing so it’s not like he couldnt go with an overhead press. I’m sure you could figure that one out on your own, the same goes for chest and back workouts…you include many exercises that are just as taxing

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Did you ever think that he might be able to lift more using a split because he would be able to give that single movement all his focus and use higher intensity? Yeah maybe he is lifting heavy weights, but I’d put money on the fact that he could lift more without throwing all those compounds for different bodyparts in at once.[/quote]

he used to train splits awhile ago and said his gains are better now even with all his experience

i agree that when someone is much more experienced (like X) they will probably need to do a lot more work to cause significant muscle damage for growth. thats obvious and no ones really debating it…i’m just saying that at certain points TBT can be just as good for building muscle as splits (i.e. beginners and intermediates). of course no pro is going to do TBT.

251

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Do you TBT-fans all think Ronnie Coleman isn’t following up his 800lbs squats with overhead presses because he’s lazy?

he follows it up with loads of other leg exerices which would be even more taxing so it’s not like he couldnt go with an overhead press. I’m sure you could figure that one out on your own, the same goes for chest and back workouts…you include many exercises that are just as taxing
[/quote]

Oh, OK…it isn’t like he actually feels the NEED to do those other leg exercises. he should just do overhead presses instead…because TBT is where it’s at (in cheerleader voice)!

252

[quote]trextacy wrote:
<<< As to that last part-- I agree…the fact is that only a small percentage of people here are to the point where they lift so much weight on the compounds that they HAVE to split up their body to stimulate growth. >>>[/quote]

I don’t know you, but I can’t imagine anybody who knows what ball busting eye popping work is making this statement.

253

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
forbes wrote:
CW isnt the only author i read or listen to. i disagree with some of his things, like “dont train to failure” and the like. but i do agree with some of the things he says as well.

plus CT happens to be my fav author. i listen to what he says every time he writes.

so then, what kind of slit then do you recommend will allow one to hit each muscle group sufficiently while allowing me to be in the gym 3x a week?

Chest, Back, Legs

if you have a little extra time each day add in one arm exercise for that day, and maybe abs on leg day.

That approach is o.k., but I’m a strong advocate that you need plenty of direct arm work to develop stage quality arms.[/quote]

I agree, just answering his question about a 3-day split

254

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Do you TBT-fans all think Ronnie Coleman isn’t following up his 800lbs squats with overhead presses because he’s lazy?

he follows it up with loads of other leg exerices which would be even more taxing so it’s not like he couldnt go with an overhead press. I’m sure you could figure that one out on your own, the same goes for chest and back workouts…you include many exercises that are just as taxing

Oh, OK…it isn’t like he actually feels the NEED to do those other leg exercises. he should just do overhead presses instead…because TBT is where it’s at (in cheerleader voice)![/quote]

Real mature argument. You don�??t train like me or Coleman, so your way sucks. No one I know trains like Ronnie. I think he is too much of a freak to base any argument on.

255

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Do you TBT-fans all think Ronnie Coleman isn’t following up his 800lbs squats with overhead presses because he’s lazy?

he follows it up with loads of other leg exerices which would be even more taxing so it’s not like he couldnt go with an overhead press. I’m sure you could figure that one out on your own, the same goes for chest and back workouts…you include many exercises that are just as taxing

Oh, OK…it isn’t like he actually feels the NEED to do those other leg exercises. he should just do overhead presses instead…because TBT is where it’s at (in cheerleader voice)!

Real mature argument. You don�??t train like me or Coleman, so your way sucks. No one I know trains like Ronnie. I think he is too much of a freak to base any argument on.[/quote]

Retarded. The point is, he does those other exercises because he sees results from it. Therefore, why would he do less for legs just to throw in more body parts on one day?

Does that really make sense to you?

The only thing you can gather in mind is that this means everyone should train just like Coleman? Wow.

Try sitting in the front of the class sometimes.

256

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
trextacy wrote:
<<< As to that last part-- I agree…the fact is that only a small percentage of people here are to the point where they lift so much weight on the compounds that they HAVE to split up their body to stimulate growth. >>>

I don’t know you, but I can’t imagine anybody who knows what ball busting eye popping work is making this statement. [/quote]

Mind you, we are getting relative newbies telling us where we need to be in order to do a split routine.

I am so glad I started before this bullshit got rolling.

257

Hmmm. I can see I’ve read a lot of BS in the articles on this site.

This debate is good b/c it allows those who’ve actually made gains to educate those who haven’t. I think I need to switch to a body-part split.

258

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
trextacy wrote:
<<< As to that last part-- I agree…the fact is that only a small percentage of people here are to the point where they lift so much weight on the compounds that they HAVE to split up their body to stimulate growth. >>>

I don’t know you, but I can’t imagine anybody who knows what ball busting eye popping work is making this statement.

Mind you, we are getting relative newbies telling us where we need to be in order to do a split routine.

I am so glad I started before this bullshit got rolling.

[/quote]

I don’t know about anybody else, but my 3 way split has me DONE at the end of each workout. I’m sorry, but there is no way anybody can give their all to 4 big movements in a given training session. NO WAY. If you think you are you’re deluding yourself.

259

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Banana splits are useless for a bodybuilder.[/quote]

At the end of the day, this is the best post of this thread.

260

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Do you TBT-fans all think Ronnie Coleman isn’t following up his 800lbs squats with overhead presses because he’s lazy?

he follows it up with loads of other leg exerices which would be even more taxing so it’s not like he couldnt go with an overhead press. I’m sure you could figure that one out on your own, the same goes for chest and back workouts…you include many exercises that are just as taxing

Oh, OK…it isn’t like he actually feels the NEED to do those other leg exercises. he should just do overhead presses instead…because TBT is where it’s at (in cheerleader voice)!

Real mature argument. You don�??t train like me or Coleman, so your way sucks. No one I know trains like Ronnie. I think he is too much of a freak to base any argument on.

Retarded. The point is, he does those other exercises because he sees results from it. Therefore, why would he do less for legs just to throw in more body parts on one day?

Does that really make sense to you?

The only thing you can gather in mind is that this means everyone should train just like Coleman? Wow.

Try sitting in the front of the class sometimes.[/quote]

My point is that I don’t think there is anyone here one Coleman’s level. Maybe you are, I don’t know you. But you are using him to compare training styles, and I’m just pointing out that I don’t think that’s a fair statement. And even if you make that argument, like I’ve said several times on this thread, there are plenty of high level guys that do total body workouts and move as big or bigger weight than Ronnie.

Plus to mock tbt because you don’t use it is immature as is your tendency to treat everyone as a 15 year old with 2 months training. I figured you of all people would realize that everyone�??s body responds differently.