I tax the hell out of a muscle group on a split. And theres no way I can come away thinking “hell, i could do another 20 mins”. I do think “hell, i’d like to do another 20 mins but fuck me this rigamortis is a killer”
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
i dont know why some are assuming full body has to have just a few compounds or low volume.
You could do full body routines 4x a week for more volume.
or you could include sets for any muscle group.
lets say you do
squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls
all for 3 sets. Your doing 21 sets which one could easily complete in an hour and your getting 9 sets per body part a week which is sufficient for most people, including those with a lot of experience. If you need a little more add a 4th set to the bigger exercises and tell me thats not enough. Like i said i like splits but i dont like how some are assuming you cant have more volume or isolations in TBT.
Professor X, i am not saying i think it will benefit you any more at all, but why would you not even consider trying full body routines? I dont mean for a very long time but your bashing it without trying it when you always talk about how “if something works keep doing it”. You could do one for 8 weeks and see the results, if you only put 2lb. of lean weight on instead of 4 i dont think you’ll be too screwed
[/quote]
I did one of Arthur Jones’ Nautilus Bulletin routines way back in the day, and it was easy when I was still fairly weak…
But these days, doing heavy squats, bench, deads all in one workout just doesn’t allow me to train with any intensity in the later exercises.
DC is already damned hard with all the compound movements and training half the body every session beyond failure… There is a good reason why Dante didn’t make it a full body program.
Professor X, if training tbt style, would…
a) need a spotter for every heavy-ass free weight exercise, and there are usually not many people available who have the strength necessary to spot any of us, unless we were to train in powerlifting gyms.
b) blow a disc on deadlifts because he already gave the other exercises his all FOR REPS
d) plateau on every exercise after a few sessions
c) need much more time for each session, which may conflict with his schedule
d) at his strength levels, he’d be totally beat up all the time, lots of fun at work…
Man honestly, there is a reason nobody’s making it to the heavier weightclasses through tbt at our height, even assisted lifters have not managed that, as it seems.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies. [/quote]
i am not up to that level but i do know people who rep 405 for bench and say they are in favor of full body routines
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies.
i am not up to that level but i do know people who rep 405 for bench and say they are in favor of full body routines [/quote]
Of course you do.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I did one of Arthur Jones’ Nautilus Bulletin routines way back in the day, and it was easy when I was still fairly weak…
But these days, doing heavy squats, bench, deads all in one workout just doesn’t allow me to train with any intensity in the later exercises.
DC is already damned hard with all the compound movements and training half the body every session beyond failure… There is a good reason why Dante didn’t make it a full body program.
[/quote]
of course i would not be counting DC in this, going past failure with that intensity for all muscle groups in 1 workout would be stupid for most
[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies.
i am not up to that level but i do know people who rep 405 for bench and say they are in favor of full body routines
Of course you do. [/quote]
ok so you don’t believe me? go to disbussbodybuilding.com and look at smoundzou…he reps 405 and is in favor of TBT
sure looks like full body to me discussbodybuilding.com/SM39s-Training-Log-m328816-p4.aspx
[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies.
i am not up to that level but i do know people who rep 405 for bench and say they are in favor of full body routines
Of course you do. [/quote]
The level of strength of all those newbies at this site is amazing, same for all the people they “know”.
I remember my weights as a 120 pound anorexic looking beginner, and I must say wow. You people in America all start out so damned strong…
I had to work my way up to a 200 pound deadlift back then, and everyone here seems to start out with a 405*1 for deads ?
Maybe you guys mean the perceived weight ? 
Here’s the real issue here though pumped340… I would be willing to bet we could name 100 people who train on a split of some kind who can bench over 405 to every 1 you can name who has done it exclusively(key) with full body training. Does the overwhelming quantity of people mean anything to you?
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Here’s the real issue here though pumped340… I would be willing to bet we could name 100 people who train on a split of some kind who can bench over 405 to every 1 you can name who has done it exclusively(key) with full body training. Does the overwhelming quantity of people mean anything to you?[/quote]
im not just trying to defend TBT. I just dont like how X seems to think you cant possibly use heavy weights doing Full body…so i posted someones log showing exactly that
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Scott M wrote:
Here’s the real issue here though pumped340… I would be willing to bet we could name 100 people who train on a split of some kind who can bench over 405 to every 1 you can name who has done it exclusively(key) with full body training. Does the overwhelming quantity of people mean anything to you?
im not just trying to defend TBT. I just dont like how X seems to think you cant possibly use heavy weights doing Full body…so i posted someones log showing exactly that[/quote]
That wasn’t my point at all. In fact, my point has been made several times over in this thread which means I don’t even need to type it again.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies.
i am not up to that level but i do know people who rep 405 for bench and say they are in favor of full body routines
Of course you do.
ok so you don’t believe me? go to disbussbodybuilding.com and look at smoundzou…he reps 405 and is in favor of TBT
sure looks like full body to me discussbodybuilding.com - discussbodybuilding Resources and Information.
The prof said 405 FOR REPS, not once, just to set the record straight.
So the guy you posted, while certainly not weak, isn’t anywhere near X’s strength levels here, if I’m not mistaken.
He also does only 4 exercises to train most/full body…
Is he a powerlifter/hobby powerlifter?
This is not applicable to maximum mass-gaining and avoiding all weak points, you know.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Here’s the real issue here though pumped340… I would be willing to bet we could name 100 people who train on a split of some kind who can bench over 405 to every 1 you can name who has done it exclusively(key) with full body training. Does the overwhelming quantity of people mean anything to you?[/quote]
Does anyone have the link to the Magnus Samuelsson video?
This how much you bench stuff is nonsense. I do agree that it’s hard to have enough energy to lift heavy on the whole body in one workout, but people do it.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
i dont know why some are assuming full body has to have just a few compounds or low volume.
You could do full body routines 4x a week for more volume.
or you could include sets for any muscle group.
lets say you do
squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls
all for 3 sets. Your doing 21 sets which one could easily complete in an hour and your getting 9 sets per body part a week which is sufficient for most people, including those with a lot of experience. If you need a little more add a 4th set to the bigger exercises and tell me thats not enough. Like i said i like splits but i dont like how some are assuming you cant have more volume or isolations in TBT.
If you can do squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls
All in one workout, your intensity SUCKS and I am betting your overall development isn’t exactly making people move out of the way.[/quote]
That is not a true statement. You know that. Read the article I provided in my prior post.
Steve Reeves’ training sessions lasted 2-4 hours at a time.
Reg Park’s FB workout prior to Mr. Universe was 5x10 for all exercises.
Most of these guys went to failure and used isolation movements.
Point is- don’t conflate full body 3x per week training with the anti-failure, low intensity, low volume, anti-isolation movement folks.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies.
i am not up to that level but i do know people who rep 405 for bench and say they are in favor of full body routines
Of course you do.
ok so you don’t believe me? go to disbussbodybuilding.com and look at smoundzou…he reps 405 and is in favor of TBT
sure looks like full body to me discussbodybuilding.com/SM39s-Training-Log-m328816-p4.aspx
The prof said 405 FOR REPS, not once, just to set the record straight.
So the guy you posted, while certainly not weak, isn’t anywhere near X’s strength levels here, if I’m not mistaken.
[/quote]
I also wrote Over 405lbs. The only reason I didn’t write what I actually train with is because I already stated in the past that I would quit doing that. The specific number doesn’t matter anyway.
The point is, once you start moving the really big weights that few people can, trying to do several body parts all at once would be damn near impossible.
Do you TBT-fans all think Ronnie Coleman isn’t following up his 800lbs squats with overhead presses because he’s lazy?
[quote]trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
i dont know why some are assuming full body has to have just a few compounds or low volume.
You could do full body routines 4x a week for more volume.
or you could include sets for any muscle group.
lets say you do
squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls
all for 3 sets. Your doing 21 sets which one could easily complete in an hour and your getting 9 sets per body part a week which is sufficient for most people, including those with a lot of experience. If you need a little more add a 4th set to the bigger exercises and tell me thats not enough. Like i said i like splits but i dont like how some are assuming you cant have more volume or isolations in TBT.
If you can do squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls
All in one workout, your intensity SUCKS and I am betting your overall development isn’t exactly making people move out of the way.
That is not a true statement. You know that. Read the article I provided in my prior post.
Steve Reeves’ training sessions lasted 2-4 hours at a time.
Reg Park’s FB workout prior to Mr. Universe was 5x10 for all exercises.
Most of these guys went to failure and used isolation movements.
Point is- don’t conflate full body 3x per week training with the anti-failure, low intensity, low volume, anti-isolation movement folks.
[/quote]
…and you think training for 4 hours is the same as what these guys are doing right now?
Wait, I almost laughed myself out of this chair.
Everyone here who trains with TBT 3 times a week for 4 hours at a time…raise your hand, please!
[quote]trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
i dont know why some are assuming full body has to have just a few compounds or low volume.
You could do full body routines 4x a week for more volume.
or you could include sets for any muscle group.
lets say you do
squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls
all for 3 sets. Your doing 21 sets which one could easily complete in an hour and your getting 9 sets per body part a week which is sufficient for most people, including those with a lot of experience. If you need a little more add a 4th set to the bigger exercises and tell me thats not enough. Like i said i like splits but i dont like how some are assuming you cant have more volume or isolations in TBT.
If you can do squats
bench
rows
military press
calf raises
tricep ext.
bicep curls
All in one workout, your intensity SUCKS and I am betting your overall development isn’t exactly making people move out of the way.
That is not a true statement. You know that. Read the article I provided in my prior post.
Steve Reeves’ training sessions lasted 2-4 hours at a time.
Reg Park’s FB workout prior to Mr. Universe was 5x10 for all exercises.
Most of these guys went to failure and used isolation movements.
Point is- don’t conflate full body 3x per week training with the anti-failure, low intensity, low volume, anti-isolation movement folks.
[/quote]
Steeve Reeves and Reg Park were also smaller than Professor-X.
Especially Reeves.
You still have not reacted to the little fact that all these guys were not even drug-free.
Oliva admitted his own and the other guys’ drug use later on.
How big are you again?
#Edit: WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TRAIN 2-4 HOURS IF YOU COULD ACCOMPLISH THE SAME OR MORE IN WAY LESS TIME?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Scott M wrote:
Here’s the real issue here though pumped340… I would be willing to bet we could name 100 people who train on a split of some kind who can bench over 405 to every 1 you can name who has done it exclusively(key) with full body training. Does the overwhelming quantity of people mean anything to you?
im not just trying to defend TBT. I just dont like how X seems to think you cant possibly use heavy weights doing Full body…so i posted someones log showing exactly that[/quote]
Did you ever think that he might be able to lift more using a split because he would be able to give that single movement all his focus and use higher intensity? Yeah maybe he is lifting heavy weights, but I’d put money on the fact that he could lift more without throwing all those compounds for different bodyparts in at once.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies. [/quote]
that last line seems to be the issue here. im one of the newbies, but all you have to do is read a little bit about training to understand why pro’s, more or less en masse, moved away from tbt to splits.
at a point, the muscles need more and a greater variety of stimulation. arnold built a lot of chest mass from benching, but he said himself it didnt reach its fullest development until he added inlcine work, dumbell work, various fly movements, etc. how can you do 4-5 exercises per bodypart in one workout, and have them all be effective? those aold time tbt guys, really didnt have the development of the guys in the next generation, who relied on split routines. even more so today when the body is split up even more in training (generally).
also, here is a sergio olivia routine www.ironage.us/fineprint/fineprint2.html
doesnt seem like total body to me, but who knows whether its real or just made up by the magazine.
i guess my point is that the more advanced the musculature becomes, and the more taxing each exercise becomes, the further people drift from total body workouts.
[quote]hypnotoad wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
how do you know without trying it?
Because I have trained for nearly 15 years and know my body. I know the weights I use and there is no way I could do all of that after doing what I use for bench press movements or shoulder exercises. I am not a newbie. That is WHY I usually do one body part a day or two at the most. I can bench over 405lbs for reps (not just a one rep max). When you can, come back and tell me how many other muscle groups you will be training that day. Inform me when you plan to follow that up with something like HS rows using 5 plates a side or some other movement that requires full focus and intensity to get in the air.
Some of you seem to only be viewing this through the eyes of newbies.
that last line seems to be the issue here. im one of the newbies, but all you have to do is read a little bit about training to understand why pro’s, more or less en masse, moved away from tbt to splits.
at a point, the muscles need more and a greater variety of stimulation. arnold built a lot of chest mass from benching, but he said himself it didnt reach its fullest development until he added inlcine work, dumbell work, various fly movements, etc. how can you do 4-5 exercises per bodypart in one workout, and have them all be effective? those aold time tbt guys, really didnt have the development of the guys in the next generation, who relied on split routines. even more so today when the body is split up even more in training (generally).
also, here is a sergio olivia routine www.ironage.us/fineprint/fineprint2.html
doesnt seem like total body to me, but who knows whether its real or just made up by the magazine.
i guess my point is that the more advanced the musculature becomes, and the more taxing each exercise becomes, the further people drift from total body workouts.
[/quote]
And let’s not forget that Oliva was pretty much the ideal bodybuilder, genetics wise.
Ok guys, it’s night over here, so I’m gonna go to bed… work tomorrow.
This debate needs Chad Waterbury for some fun.
Hold at all cost, men (shouldn’t be too hard…), till relieved.