Measuring progess and evaluation go hand in hand. How can you measure progress without evaluating? Even writing down every set and rep is an evaluation tool. It’s use in athletics I think is self-explanitory. For body building purposes I think you have to look a little deeper. If you want your muscles to be bigger you can’t just focus on training one specific fiber type.
In bodybuilding that is typically the Type I slow twitch fibers. By utilizing this device you can focus on training your Type II fast twich fibers, in addition to the Type I fibers, thus, maximizing your potential for growth.
Stronghold, the idea is that different foot positions, levers, and timing is going to yield different rates of force development at various stages in a lift. I want to be able to quantify the differences and through a learning process figure out what works best for me. Doing this early is going to lead to faster weight progressions. It is mostly an art but this device can make the art more of a science.
If you follow the sport of Weightlifting at all you will notice different guys using different grip widths, different foot positions, pulling at different speeds on the first pull and with different levers throughout. Some guys even opt to squat jerk their clean and jerks over power jerking or split jerking these days. Many of these lifters spent years tweaking their style, through a very gradual learning process. This tool is going to supplement and assist my learning of what works best for me.
People training for power production and sports performance use Oly lifts, but not oly lifts exclusively.
Not to say that much more advanced versions of this are used to train oly lifters.
Bar speed is an important part of measuring power production. See the scientific definition of power.
I think you’re a bit out of your realm, so I can’t really blame you for making such ignorant posts. By the tone of your posts, and the individual(s) of whom you’re trying to make fun, those last twenty pounds really seem to have gone to your head.
If you’re up to it maybe you could avoid threads about things that don’t interest you.
[quote]cormac wrote:
Stronghold, the idea is that different foot positions, levers, and timing is going to yield different rates of force development at various stages in a lift. I want to be able to quantify the differences and through a learning process figure out what works best for me. Doing this early is going to lead to faster weight progressions. It is mostly an art but this device can make the art more of a science.
If you follow the sport of Weightlifting at all you will notice different guys using different grip widths, different foot positions, pulling at different speeds on the first pull and with different levers throughout. Some guys even opt to squat jerk their clean and jerks over power jerking or split jerking these days. Many of these lifters spent years tweaking their style, through a very gradual learning process. This tool is going to supplement and assist my learning of what works best for me.[/quote]
That sounds interesting but with this machine would you be able to break down the lift into the first pull second pull etc or would it just give you the overall power? For regular barbell exercises like bench squat overhead press or what have you that sounds more reasonable but for the O lifts it seems like it wouldn’t quite give you the information you need.
I just picked one of these things up a little while ago and have found a couple of uses for it.
It could be used to measure intra-session fatigue, particularly on days in which weights aren’t the prime focus. This could be done by having the trainee perform a few maximal vertical leaps post warmup and recording the wattage. Then, at periodic points in the workout, retest his leap and see if the wattage is the same. If it has dropped by too much (~2-4%) then the session should be ended as maximal power is no longer being produced.
To assess recovery between sessions. This could be done by getting a baseline wattage measurement during a vertical leap from when the athlete is fresh. Then, on the days after the athlete trains, they would be put through a light warmup and tested daily to get more wattage measurements. They would not return to training again until their wattage was above the baseline measurement (meaning restoration/supercompensation has occured).
Basically, it could be used like a poor man’s contact mat/Omega Wave. Similarly, a hand dynamometer could probably serve the same purpose, but those are much more expensive.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
That sounds interesting but with this machine would you be able to break down the lift into the first pull second pull etc or would it just give you the overall power? For regular barbell exercises like bench squat overhead press or what have you that sounds more reasonable but for the O lifts it seems like it wouldn’t quite give you the information you need. [/quote]
Yeah, that’s a good point. I asked this earlier but I think Magnar missed it since I didn’t pose the question directly to him. Just to rehash:
I understand that there is a feature in which the device alerts you as to whether or not you are lifting fast enough. How is it given these parameters, is there some set of generic measurements for what constitute ‘correct’ snatch, clean, jerk speeds, et cetera?
Also, is there any way to break analysis of a lift into different parts, like say the first pull, second pull, and the jerk in a clean and jerk?
If anyone can answer these questions I’m all ears! Thanks.
[quote]cormac wrote:
Scott M wrote:
That sounds interesting but with this machine would you be able to break down the lift into the first pull second pull etc or would it just give you the overall power? For regular barbell exercises like bench squat overhead press or what have you that sounds more reasonable but for the O lifts it seems like it wouldn’t quite give you the information you need.
Yeah, that’s a good point. I asked this earlier but I think Magnar missed it since I didn’t pose the question directly to him. Just to rehash:
I understand that there is a feature in which the device alerts you as to whether or not you are lifting fast enough. How is it given these parameters, is there some generic measurements for what constitute ‘correct’ snatch, clean, jerk speeds, et cetera?
Also, is there any way to break analysis of a lift into different parts, like say the first pull, second pull, and the jerk in a clean and jerk?
If anyone can answer these questions I’m all ears! Thanks.[/quote]
I called the company yesterday and they are happy to answer questions. From my understanding here’s how it works. Basically once you press the start button, you have about a three second period before the unit is ready to measure. Then it measures each rep (basically as the bar gets farther from the device that’s considered the concentric and as the bar gets closer to the device that’s the eccentric). It can not measure measure phases of a lift. It can not chart rep speed throughout a single rep. It will store average speed for every rep. If you stop moving for more than 3 seconds during the set the recording stops.
It certainly doesn’t get you the same kind of data of a tendo unit but getting the average speed per rep is probably worth for many people that are trying for peak power and don’t want to spend $1,000.
People training for power production and sports performance use Oly lifts, but not oly lifts exclusively.
Not to say that much more advanced versions of this are used to train oly lifters.
Bar speed is an important part of measuring power production. See the scientific definition of power.
I think you’re a bit out of your realm, so I can’t really blame you for making such ignorant posts. By the tone of your posts, and the individual(s) of whom you’re trying to make fun, those last twenty pounds really seem to have gone to your head.
If you’re up to it maybe you could avoid threads about things that don’t interest you.[/quote]
I was under the impression that Cormac was an olympic lifter. I was also under the impression that olympic lifters perform the o-lifts and their variations as the majority of their training.
Let me rephrase what I was saying. Let me change that to kids who are 170 lbs and have been since they were 16.
If I agree to stay out of threads about strength sports, can we please turn the bodybuilding forum back into a bodybuilding forum instead of a place where people with legitimate bodybuilding questions get answers telling them to buy olympic lifting shoes and learn how to snatch? My point (in case you havent picked up on it yet over my past couple of posts) is that a bodybuilder coming and criticizing exercise scientists in a strength sports forum is equally as annoying as a bunch of strength coaches and athletes invading a bodybuilding forum and criticizing bodybuilders-something that people on this forum seem to have no problem doing.
[quote]cormac wrote:
Scott M wrote:
That sounds interesting but with this machine would you be able to break down the lift into the first pull second pull etc or would it just give you the overall power? For regular barbell exercises like bench squat overhead press or what have you that sounds more reasonable but for the O lifts it seems like it wouldn’t quite give you the information you need.
Yeah, that’s a good point. I asked this earlier but I think Magnar missed it since I didn’t pose the question directly to him. Just to rehash:
I understand that there is a feature in which the device alerts you as to whether or not you are lifting fast enough. How is it given these parameters, is there some generic measurements for what constitute ‘correct’ snatch, clean, jerk speeds, et cetera?
Also, is there any way to break analysis of a lift into different parts, like say the first pull, second pull, and the jerk in a clean and jerk?
If anyone can answer these questions I’m all ears! Thanks.[/quote]
I called the company yesterday and they are happy to answer questions. From my understanding here’s how it works. Basically once you press the start button, you have about a three second period before the unit is ready to measure. Then it measures each rep (basically as the bar gets farther from the device that’s considered the concentric and as the bar gets closer to the device that’s the eccentric). It can not measure measure phases of a lift. It can not chart rep speed throughout a single rep. It will store average speed for every rep. If you stop moving for more than 3 seconds during the set the recording stops.
It certainly doesn’t get you the same kind of data of a tendo unit but getting the average speed per rep is probably worth for many people that are trying for peak power and don’t want to spend $1,000.