I am glad to see how the quality of advice has improved…
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
it can add on to a good solid bodybuilding routine and be useful for injury prevention, and to stay supple etc. Yogaroots on this site blends the two together AFAIK and has some good size on him.
As far as physique development by itself, I know a bunch of "yogis’ claim that its all they need to look good and that they don;t need resistance training and shit, but they have a stilted idea of whats a good physique anyway.
Edit: the superb physique pictured above does not belong to yogaroots, but one of the most famous yoga teachers around, Iyengar. He has looked like this for the last 40 years btw.
[/quote]
Good and nice one!.
Bah! One set of halfwits spits on what the other set worships without question! Neither is right. Just because something is “difficult as shit” doesn;t mean that it is effective or even worth doing.
Yoga was devised by the ancient sages/hermits to keep their bodies in normal condition and stretch the muscles to prepare for hours and hours of sitting cross legged. No more no less. Over time, it extended to include principles and practices for “healthy living” like cleanliness, celibacy, frugal living and eating etc…
As far as s&c, the old Indian wrestlers did yogic exercises AFTER they did regular resistance training (squats with stones, clubs) to improve recovery. The current crop of devotees has determined that yoga based stretching with the Sun salutation is ALL thats required for health and strength and thats pasteurized bullshit!
]
The “bikram yoga” youre talking about is little moire than a clever innovation (which has its uses) but mostly to draw westerners naturally attracted to the fad of the day (woooahhh dude, they do it in, like, 90 degrees temperature. UNREAL!!!) Stoners brought yoga into the west (and blended meditation with weed for the ultimate result, but I digress)
The main prob with the yoga imported into the western world is the practice of “holding” poses for several minutes can be very dangeroius to some ligaments, and yoga instructors automatically assume every joint needs to be trrained for mobility (rather than stability - like the knees for eg)
If youre trying to draw some benefit as a martial artist or powerlifter, youd be better off ordering Matt Furey’s stuff as he has been able to blend the flexibility, enduraNCE AND strength aspects reasonably well.
[quote]elnyka wrote:
Wow, just wow, some of you guys need to put the kool aid down (I’m referring to those who say Yoga is meditative crap.)
There are many types of Yoga, from the meditative to the very athletic. I’ve done a lot of physical crap, including BJJ, Judo, some powerlifting, and conditioning based on HIIT (mostly from BJJ) and I have to tell you, Bikram Yoga and Power Yoga variants of Ashtanga Yoga beat my ass silly.
I haven’t tried Ashtanga Yoga yet, but I’ve seen the advanced classes. That shit is no joke; purely gymnastics stuff. You need to be absurdidly strong to do some of that shit.
Bikram Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga and their “power”, athletic variants (either at room temperature or in rooms heated at 90 degrees) are an excellent way to develop strength and flexibility (both static and dynamic). However, it is not conductive for bodybuilding.
You are basically spending 90 minutes (sometimes under intentionally harsh conditions such as under the sun or in a heated room) doing, not just stretches, but intense isometric contractions and gymnastic like stances such as the plank for 30 seconds to a minute each while constantly breathing to the point of almost hyperventilation. They dehydrate you deeply.
If you want to have an idea of what’s like, sit on an incline bench and grab a dumbbell, something that allows you to do 10 reps. Curl it up to 50% of ROM and hold it there for 60 seconds. Put it down and repeat. That’s what you do with most of your limbs over and over for 90 minutes.
I don’t think I should explain why this is not conductive of bodybuilding, right?
Having said that, it’s an awesome training method for strength and flexibility, with a great carry over to things such as gymnastics or martial arts (specially grappling and wrestling.)
It would also play well with powerlifting, BUT, it is too demanding and taxing. You can really screw your training if you attempt to do Ashtanga/Bikram on an off day. I guess it would depend on your “gas thank”, on your ability to recover.
If your experience with Yoga was on the quasi-spiritual stuff you find in the Western World when you were looking for a workout, sorry to tell you you wasted your time and money (not to mention you are not that quite capable of commenting on Yoga as a method for strength training or conditioning.)[/quote]
[quote]Digity wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
anyway, yoga has the buda as central image: have you ever seen that guy: HE IS FAT! sedentary way of life, a couch potato glorified.
First off, it’s Buddha…not buda. Secondly, the fat image of Buddha is not the same as Siddh�?rtha Gautama, who is traditionally known as the Buddha. When he took up the monastic life he didn’t eat a lot since he had to go door to door begging for alms.
edit
Just noticed someone else pointed this out…oh well.[/quote]
I apologize my spelling.
I am not so sure about his gut growing or not. I has been fat and made the mistake of not eating to (in my stupid opinion) reduce my weight. the result was insuline resistance with a gut larger than before, not to mention the muscle loss for lack of excercise. If I had continued that way, i certainly would look like the guy posted above. no matter how my name were. fat: body trying to warranty subsistance in no food/excess conditions.
I’ve been taking yoga on Mondays and Thursdays and I’ve found it immensely helpful to my lifting and bodyfat reduction goals. I do a 45 minute class directly before lifting and I have found I am really well warmed up, my lungs and sinuses are really open and I can hit nigher lifts on those days.
It has also helped tremendously with loosening tight muscles from hard workouts and old injuries. I think it has the benefit of helping you gain a better mind/body connection and develop balance and control that you would otherwise not have. This leads to fewer injuries and better workouts in other ways.
Admittedly though, this is a class taught in my company’s fitness center and is toned down for the middle age couch potatoes I work with.
Fortunately, the instructor has seen I am looking for more and she shows me the advanced versions of the poses and movements so that I can really push it.
Overall, I think a couple short classes a week in a moderate form can be a serious benefit.
[quote]buckfu wrote:
… the right style can give you the sort of physique/strength results that a normal weight workout can’t…[/quote]
buckfu:
Has this question been answered?
[quote]elnyka wrote:
I haven’t tried Ashtanga Yoga yet, but I’ve seen the advanced classes. That shit is no joke; purely gymnastics stuff. You need to be absurdidly strong to do some of that shit.[/quote]
If you want to sweat and be challenged Ashtanga is what you’re looking for. It’s the toughest out of the styles I tried. I’m not a big fan of the “calmer” versions like Hatha.
Overall, I find yoga a bit boring. Not sure why women love the thing so much.
[quote]juanjromero wrote:
buckfu wrote:
… the right style can give you the sort of physique/strength results that a normal weight workout can’t…
buckfu:
Has this question been answered?[/quote]
I think so. Thanks for the help with this. I think I’ll give the bikram a shot at least once and see how it goes.
Wow, I guess bodybuilding is only for bodybuilders? Yoga is for anyone that wants flexibility and stress reduction.
[quote]Digity wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
anyway, yoga has the buda as central image: have you ever seen that guy: HE IS FAT! sedentary way of life, a couch potato glorified.
First off, it’s Buddha…not buda. Secondly, the fat image of Buddha is not the same as Siddh�?rtha Gautama, who is traditionally known as the Buddha. When he took up the monastic life he didn’t eat a lot since he had to go door to door begging for alms.
edit
Just noticed someone else pointed this out…oh well.[/quote]
Are you Buddhist as well? It’s a pet peeve of mine that people constantly confuse Ho Tei with Gautama.
I think Bikram is done at hotter temps than 90 degrees. I think it’s more like 105 degrees.
I did it once with my GF and it kicked my ass…but more importantly, I was useless for a lot of the rest of the day…so I think it would conflict with bodybuilding and recovery.
[quote]wirewound wrote:
I think Bikram is done at hotter temps than 90 degrees. I think it’s more like 105 degrees.
I did it once with my GF and it kicked my ass…but more importantly, I was useless for a lot of the rest of the day…so I think it would conflict with bodybuilding and recovery.[/quote]
I think the yoga I tried was based mostly on Iyengar yoga (some use of block and strap aids), not the hardest but not really meditative, except for a few minutes at the end. The first time did kick my ass, as wirewound says, and might not have helped my recovery from the prior workout. After that, sessions have seemed less extreme, and I think they aid in recovery. These are watered-down classes for walk-ins at my gym, you’re not assumed to have progressed through anything.
As for why women like yoga, I’m not sure, but some things come to mind:
- It’s fun to do something that fits your abilities, and women tend to be flexible.
- Any strength aspects are body-weight based, so a typical woman will not feel as weak as in a weight room.
- Judging from the physiques of the female instructors I’ve had, it seems to do a (female) body good.
In fact, #1 and #2 mean that a man is at a disadvantage compared to a fit woman, which probably feels nice to the ladies.
[quote]wirewound wrote:
Digity wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
anyway, yoga has the buda as central image: have you ever seen that guy: HE IS FAT! sedentary way of life, a couch potato glorified.
First off, it’s Buddha…not buda. Secondly, the fat image of Buddha is not the same as Siddh�?rtha Gautama, who is traditionally known as the Buddha. When he took up the monastic life he didn’t eat a lot since he had to go door to door begging for alms.
edit
Just noticed someone else pointed this out…oh well.
Are you Buddhist as well? It’s a pet peeve of mine that people constantly confuse Ho Tei with Gautama.[/quote]
I’ve studied Buddhism extensively, mostly on my own, but I even took a course on it in university. I’m not a Buddhist, just someone very interested in the Buddha’s teachings. I’ve done meditation in the past. Anyway, I have a great deal of respect for the teachings and it annoys me too when people who have no knowledge of Buddhism say silly stuff…like he’s a fat ass or something. 
[quote]Digity wrote:
wirewound wrote:
Digity wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
anyway, yoga has the buda as central image: have you ever seen that guy: HE IS FAT! sedentary way of life, a couch potato glorified.
First off, it’s Buddha…not buda. Secondly, the fat image of Buddha is not the same as Siddh�?rtha Gautama, who is traditionally known as the Buddha. When he took up the monastic life he didn’t eat a lot since he had to go door to door begging for alms.
edit
Just noticed someone else pointed this out…oh well.
Are you Buddhist as well? It’s a pet peeve of mine that people constantly confuse Ho Tei with Gautama.
I’ve studied Buddhism extensively, mostly on my own, but I even took a course on it in university. I’m not a Buddhist, just someone very interested in the Buddha’s teachings. I’ve done meditation in the past. Anyway, I have a great deal of respect for the teachings and it annoys me too when people who have no knowledge of Buddhism say silly stuff…like he’s a fat ass or something.
[/quote]
Well, I will take back my comment because it appeals to religion. so, it was my mistake. but is a fact that yoga and buddhism are asociated with the fat guy as much as cristianism with the skinny renacentist image of Christ. None of them reflecting in any way the real nature of both. I apologize with any buddhist on this forum for this missplaced comment.
[quote]juanjromero wrote:
wirewound wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
and did not eat past noon.
.
that would be a problem to gain weight.[/quote]
Actually I heard that is going to be Shugart’s next miracle fatloss diet. No more actual food. Ever.
Being able to contort your body into certain poses has less to do with flexibility and more to do with the SIZE (or lack thereof) of the participants. Big Guys (fat or muscular) are unlikely to do well in this (doing thr splits is one thing, sitting in a vajrasana position without strain for 5 minutes straight has EVERYTHING to do with how fuckign massive your quads are)
Point being, slim women (and skinny guys) are better suited for yoga ERGO they enjoy it. It has benefits for everyone but I would not expect someone who looks physically impressive (from a bbing standpoint) to excel at it. I guess thre is a genetic/.structural component to it as well (limb lengths)
[quote]Digity wrote:
Not sure why women love the thing so much.
[/quote]
[quote]buckfu wrote:
So I’ve been interested in yoga recently as a supplemental sort of workout. I’ve read that the right style can give you the sort of physique/strength results that a normal weight workout can’t. Has anyone had any experience with yoga? If so, what style and how did you like it? Any feedback would be great. [/quote]
Yep, been doing regular yoga (regular=2x/week) for about 6 months now, and honestly it’s about one of the most challenging physical experiences there are - or, at least, can be.
If you want to keep fit Yoga is definitely a good part of the arsenal. It’s not all about contorting and stretching, but improving the mind body connection, and increasing the ‘discomfort’ threshold.
Hatha Yoga is what I (try to) do.
[quote]juanjromero wrote:
Digity wrote:
wirewound wrote:
Digity wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
anyway, yoga has the buda as central image: have you ever seen that guy: HE IS FAT! sedentary way of life, a couch potato glorified.
First off, it’s Buddha…not buda. Secondly, the fat image of Buddha is not the same as Siddh�?rtha Gautama, who is traditionally known as the Buddha. When he took up the monastic life he didn’t eat a lot since he had to go door to door begging for alms.
edit
Just noticed someone else pointed this out…oh well.
Are you Buddhist as well? It’s a pet peeve of mine that people constantly confuse Ho Tei with Gautama.
I’ve studied Buddhism extensively, mostly on my own, but I even took a course on it in university. I’m not a Buddhist, just someone very interested in the Buddha’s teachings. I’ve done meditation in the past. Anyway, I have a great deal of respect for the teachings and it annoys me too when people who have no knowledge of Buddhism say silly stuff…like he’s a fat ass or something.
Well, I will take back my comment because it appeals to religion. so, it was my mistake. but is a fact that yoga and buddhism are asociated with the fat guy as much as cristianism with the skinny renacentist image of Christ. None of them reflecting in any way the real nature of both. I apologize with any buddhist on this forum for this missplaced comment.
[/quote]
Oh, no need to apologize - not to me at least. It’s a common mistake and has more to do with pop Buddhism than anything else. It just irks me, that’s all.
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Bah! One set of halfwits spits on what the other set worships without question! Neither is right. Just because something is “difficult as shit” doesn;t mean that it is effective or even worth doing.[/quote]
Absolutely true. Whether this applies to the athletic versions of Yoga, that’s the question… halfwit.
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Yoga was devised by the ancient sages/hermits to keep their bodies in normal condition and stretch the muscles to prepare for hours and hours of sitting cross legged. No more no less. Over time, it extended to include principles and practices for “healthy living” like cleanliness, celibacy, frugal living and eating etc… [/quote]
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Really? I would have never figured out such old news.
[photo]15382[/photo]
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
As far as s&c, the old Indian wrestlers did yogic exercises AFTER they did regular resistance training (squats with stones, clubs) to improve recovery. The current crop of devotees has determined that yoga based stretching with the Sun salutation is ALL thats required for health and strength and thats pasteurized bullshit!
[/quote]
I agree with the last sentence in that such belief is bullshit. I’ve yet to meet someone who swallows that tripe, however.
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
The “bikram yoga” youre talking about is little moire than a clever innovation (which has its uses) but mostly to draw westerners naturally attracted to the fad of the day (woooahhh dude, they do it in, like, 90 degrees temperature. UNREAL!!!)[/quote]
Don’t be a dense tard. The hardness of 90 degrees, or 105 as done in other studios is relative, depending on humidity or lack thereof.
Let put it in perspective so that you understand this. I grew up doing farm work, since an early age, not here, but in an underdevloping country. I won’t go much into details regarding the exquisite working conditions we enjoy down there, but I do know what working under the sun in harsh conditions is like.
And I can tell you that whether it’s 90 degrees or 105 degrees, doing 90 minutes of that Yoga shit is not pleasant at all.
I would gladly debate with you the health benefits or problems of such practices, but don’t for a fucking second go with your ‘UNREAL’ crap.
My entire comment is regarding the incredibly large number of individuals who have taken some tree-hugging hippie crap ‘spiritual’ yoga, and that somehow, without ever checking their assumptions, they assume that there is nothing else to Yoga.
I suggest you re-read my post in that light… or find a crowbar to dig the centipide out of your ass.
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Stoners brought yoga into the west (and blended meditation with weed for the ultimate result, but I digress)[/quote]
Yes, you digress. There is a good point you made regarding stoners. There a lot, a lot in Yoga… which is quite unfortunate.
The remark is still irrelevant to the usefullness of Yoga as practiced by physically active individuals today. The SBGi affiliate BJJ/MMA gyms use Yoga extensively for their conditioning programs, hardly the stuff of stoners.
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
The main prob with the yoga imported into the western world is the practice of “holding” poses for several minutes can be very dangeroius to some ligaments, and yoga instructors automatically assume every joint needs to be trrained for mobility (rather than stability - like the knees for eg)[/quote]
I yet need to find a Yoga instructor that fits that description. I’m being honest in this.
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
If youre trying to draw some benefit as a martial artist or powerlifter, youd be better off ordering Matt Furey’s stuff as he has been able to blend the flexibility, enduraNCE AND strength aspects reasonably well.[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You got to be fucking kidding me. Matt Furey? Please. I suggest you go to bullshido.net and do a search on this individual and his “products”. He’s a decent, legitimate folkstyle wrestling coach (and former wrestler himself), but his products are nothing short of snake oil.
Also, don’t pretent to know or suggest what I need best for MA. Certainly not after recommending Furey’s balloney.
[quote]elnyka wrote:
Absolutely true. Whether this applies to the athletic versions of Yoga, that’s the question… halfwit.[/quote]
There are no “athletic” versions of yoga. Anby version of yoga is merely something cooked up to attract the couch potato and insecure overweight middle-aged white women…It stretches your muscles in certain poses, and improves mobility in joints. If you find that useful for whatever activity you train for, go for it.it has a limited (not non-existent) application for a bodybuilder, thats all. MAybe you want to try “yoga booty ballet” and post about how it kicked your butt next.
tribunaldude wrote:
Yoga was devised by the ancient sages/hermits to keep their bodies in normal condition and stretch the muscles to prepare for hours and hours of sitting cross legged. No more no less. Over time, it extended to include principles and practices for “healthy living” like cleanliness, celibacy, frugal living and eating etc…
Surprisingly, this old news sums up everything about this mystic art you were trying to shed light on thus far.
tribunaldude wrote:
As far as s&c, the old Indian wrestlers did yogic exercises AFTER they did regular resistance training (squats with stones, clubs) to improve recovery. The current crop of devotees has determined that yoga based stretching with the Sun salutation is ALL thats required for health and strength and thats pasteurized bullshit!
[quote]
I agree with the last sentence in that such belief is bullshit. I’ve yet to meet someone who swallows that tripe, however. [/quote]
Then you haven;t met any yoga afficianados in real life. I have. Go to a yoga forum online and make a post about integrating weight training with yoga and see what most of them reply back.
tribunaldude wrote:
The “bikram yoga” youre talking about is little moire than a clever innovation (which has its uses) but mostly to draw westerners naturally attracted to the fad of the day (woooahhh dude, they do it in, like, 90 degrees temperature. UNREAL!!!)
[quote]
Don’t be a dense tard. [/quote]
Dude…do you know who I am. Being a dense tard is, like, my mission in life.
[quote]
The hardness of 90 degrees, or 105 as done in other studios is relative, depending on humidity or lack thereof. [/quote]
So fucking what! Its just a way to get inflexible couch potatoes to sweat a little since they associate that (and soy protein) with “exercise benefits”. The slightly better ROM you get with that ndoesn;t carry over to real life anyway. Iyengar even makes people ASSIST each other when they are not flexible enough. While that may be useful for fascial stretching (one of the possible uses) it does nothing for improving flexibility away from the yoga mat and masters.
[quote]
Let put it in perspective so that you understand this. I grew up doing farm work, since an early age, not here, but in an underdevloping country. I won’t go much into details regarding the exquisite working conditions we enjoy down there, but I do know what working under the sun in harsh conditions is like.
And I can tell you that whether it’s 90 degrees or 105 degrees, doing 90 minutes of that Yoga shit is not pleasant at all.[/quote]
I am deeply moved by your tale of determination and perseverence and will contact Michael Moore within the hour…but what does “being unpleasant” have to do with health benefits? I knew a girl with an a-hole that tasted of bitter melon, but I didn;t expect to improve my insulin sensitivity by performing a rimjob on her for fuck’s sake!
[quote]
I would gladly debate with you the health benefits or problems of such practices, but don’t for a fucking second go with your ‘UNREAL’ crap.[/quote]
Dude…why not do something that makes you happy???
[quote]
My entire comment is regarding the incredibly large number of individuals who have taken some tree-hugging hippie crap ‘spiritual’ yoga, and that somehow, without ever checking their assumptions, they assume that there is nothing else to Yoga.
I suggest you re-read my post in that light… or find a crowbar to dig the centipide out of your ass.[/quote]
I don;t need a crowbar…I found a yogic pose that directly does the job only when sitting in 123.45 degrees with 45% relative humidity. Anyhoo, I did that, and the centipede moulted, formed a cocoon, grew into a beautiful butterfly that took a giant dump in “an undeveloped country” launching several thousand parasitic eggs of which only one hatched! Now do you see the link?
tribunaldude wrote:
Stoners brought yoga into the west (and blended meditation with weed for the ultimate result, but I digress)
[quote]
Yes, you digress. There is a good point you made regarding stoners. There a lot, a lot in Yoga… which is quite unfortunate.
The remark is still irrelevant to the usefullness of Yoga as practiced by physically active individuals today. The SBGi affiliate BJJ/MMA gyms use Yoga extensively for their conditioning programs, hardly the stuff of stoners.[/quote]
tribunaldude wrote:
The main prob with the yoga imported into the western world is the practice of “holding” poses for several minutes can be very dangeroius to some ligaments, and yoga instructors automatically assume every joint needs to be trrained for mobility (rather than stability - like the knees for eg)
[quote]
I yet need to find a Yoga instructor that fits that description. I’m being honest in this.[/quote]
Elnyka dudeness, check out the photograph of the dashing stud I posted on page 1 and google him. He says this. Also google baba ramdev. He says this.
tribunaldude wrote:
If youre trying to draw some benefit as a martial artist or powerlifter, youd be better off ordering Matt Furey’s stuff as he has been able to blend the flexibility, enduraNCE AND strength aspects reasonably well.
[quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You got to be fucking kidding me. Matt Furey? Please. I suggest you go to bullshido.net and do a search on this individual and his “products”. He’s a decent, legitimate folkstyle wrestling coach (and former wrestler himself), but his products are nothing short of snake oil.
Also, don’t pretent to know or suggest what I need best for MA. Certainly not after recommending Furey’s balloney.[/quote]
Ahhh…such charming laughter! In any case, I didn;t RECOMMEND furey…I said even his nonsense was better than blindly following a yoga instructor with a giant cellulite-laden ass and split ends for your purposes. Good call on bullshido…I would remind you that bullshido is not sherdog.
And for fuck’s sake, don ;t get all wound up about this. YOu take this stuff way too seriously.