Let me clarify what I said before a bit. Homeopathy isn’t as widespread as conventional medicine in the US, where the vast majority of medical breakthroughs are made and where most of cutting edge medicine is practiced. I’m sure there are lots of tribesmen in Africa who wouldn’t agree with my position, but that’s irrelevant to my world. I’ll say this one more time. I’m looking for concrete, objective evidence. Your daughter was cured of some chronic condition. What condition? Can you provide proof? Was it covered in some medical journal? If these chronic conditions were legitimately being cured, it would be big news in the medical community. And, no, I’m not going to accept the word of people on homeopathy message boards on the internet. If you believe all you read on the internet, you probably also think you can get a 12" dong from pills, get a 6 pack of abs in 3 minutes a day, and can be healthier by eating low fat foods. I’m not asking for a lot here. One piece of solid evidence is all I’m looking for.
doc - I should have been more clear - the Study by the World Health Org was done on Industrialized nations - not obscure tribal areas, which by the way could probably teach us a thing or two about health.
Did you know the thirsd leading cause of death in the US is medical treatment? Properly prescribed medications? This is higher than any other country.
By the way can you prove that antibiotics cured an ear infection?
also - studies are not conducted the way medical studies are simply because there is no financial backing as is in other studies where the pharmacies back the studies.
My darling Doc - if you could give me 10 inch dong that truly would be a miracle as I am female.
for research and studies click here:
I stumbled upon an interesting site while looking up Mel Siff articles (this has nothing to do with him however), here’s a quote:
Actually, the laws of chemistry state that there is a limit to the dilution that can be made without losing the original substance altogether. This limit, called Avogadro’s number, corresponds to homeopathic potencies of 12C or 24X (1 part in 1024). Hahnemann himself realized that there is virtually no chance that even one molecule of original substance would remain after extreme dilutions. But he believed that the vigorous shaking or pulverizing with each step of dilution leaves behind a “spirit-like” essence – “no longer perceptible to the senses” – which cures by reviving the body’s “vital force.” Modern proponents assert that even when the last molecule is gone, a “memory” of the substance is retained. This notion is unsubstantiated. Moreover, if it were true, every substance encountered by a molecule of water might imprint an “essence” that could exert powerful (and unpredictable) medicinal effects when ingested by a person.
A 30X dilution means that the original substance has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000 times. Assuming that a cubic centimeter of water contains 15 drops, this number is greater than the number of drops of water that would fill a container more than 50 times the size of the Earth. Imagine placing a drop of red dye into such a container so that it disperses evenly. Homeopathy’s “law of infinitesimals” is the equivalent of saying that any drop of water subsequently removed from that container will possess an essence of redness. Robert L. Park, Ph.D., a prominent physicist who is executive director of The American Physical Society, has noted that since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original substance dissolved in a minimum of 1,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would require a container more than 30 billion times the size of the Earth.
If anyone wants to read the whole thing here’s the site: http://www.familyinternet.com/ quackwatch/ 01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html
Marto, you’re gonna have to give me a little time to read some of that research as I have little free time at the moment. As for the ear infection argument, I can certainly prove that antibiotics cure that infection. That’s because of vastly accepted knowledge about bacterial physiology and our own, about the exact mechanism of the antibiotic’s antimicrobial activity, and REPRODUCIBILITY! Now, while you ponder that, I’ll ponder how we can get you a ten inch dong. 
Doc - you can not Prove HOW antibiotics work even the pharmaceutical companies don’t understand how they work, only that they do, big difference. Oh and the fact that they do work is subject to debate as well especially in the administration for ear infections since 80% of all ear infections are caused by viruses NOT bacteria and a recent study in rthe British Journal of Medicine states that ear infections will clear up with or without antibiotics and since that article the american academy of pediatrics stated that antibiotics are not needed for childhood ear infection - but the pediatricians still routinely give em. No one knows how aspirin works either, just that it does - these aren’t the only two examples there are many drugs where we do not know the exact way they work, just that they do.
Hello. Doc T, I appreciate and agree with your posts.
Marto, I want you to read and absorb every word that I write. We understand the majority of the effects of aspirin. Allow me to give you a small lecture in pharmacology. Aspirin inhibits an enzyme in prostaglandin cynthesis called cyclooxgenase. Therefore, the prostaglandin synthesis is stopped resulting in the anti-inflammatory effects of aspirin. The salicyclate portion of aspirin also irreversibly inhibits platelet aggregation. This is why we use it for MI prophylaxis. Do you know how we know this? Because we test, retest, and learn.
Now for homeopathy. The beauty of western medicine is our ability to admit when we cannot cure something. We are not defensive about alternate therapies. If we cannot cure something, we welcome other ideas. However, these ideas must have a scientific basis. We use randomized trials to prove or disprove the great majority of our treatment modalities. When I was in medical school, they told us that 50% of our knowledge would be obsolete in 10 years. This is true. In fact, I think that 50% figure is low. Why? Because we are constantly asking the question why? Why and how? How and why? There is the fundamental difference between snake charmer medicine/homeopathy/herbs and allopathic medicine. It is not enough for us to know that something works. We need science. For the most part, we are uncomfortable with faith healing.
Do you know when the vast majority of homeopathic and osteopathic medicine evolved? In the 19th century. That was before we bought into the concept of evidence based medicine. We did some reprehensible things such as bleeding and blistering. We didn’t use our minds. We were not adherent to science. About the time of the American Civil War, we began to change our philosophy. Our achievements have been stunning. Know anyone with small pox? Hang around anyone with polio? How much leprosy do you see? Any friends with cholera? How about the rates of survival from cancer, tuberculosis, AIDS, whooping cough, pneumonia, rubella, measles, syphillis, gonorrhea, gangrene, MI’s? The list can go on ad infinitum. I’m waiting for the homeopathic list.
I echo my friend’s question. Show me one randomized, double-blinded, clinical trial indicating the efficacy of homeopathic medicine? Good luck.
welcome-you wanted to see one randomized, double-blind test? Good, there are 89 of them in the meta-analysis I mentioned, and 81 in a different meta-analysis that marto mentioned. If you have access to the Lancet or the British Medical Journal (the publication that printed the m.a. marto mentioned) at your library you should check them out. And read my analysis of the meta-analysis in order to understand why a few of the trials had to be thrown out from the big report. (there was a big stink raised after the Lancet printed it.)
DocT- I looked over what I stated about quantum physics, and, you’re right. I didn’t really explain too well what it was I was talking about. In a nutshell, this is the way I understand the mechanism that is currently being presented- Matter is slowed down and dormant energy. During the process of potentization, the patterned movement of electrons binds to the water molecules. The more one potentizes, the more this movement increases. Again, if you want more information on this you should check out the book I refered to.
Marto, you’re starting to lose me here. We DO know how antibiotics works, down to the exact protein that they bind (i.e. cell wall monomers, DNA gyrase, etc.). That’s widely available information, and I’m disappointed that you’d choose to spread disinformation like that. The argument that most ear infections are caused by a virus is one of semantics. I assumed by your post that you meant a bacterial otitis. Of course they’re not going to work against viruses as that’s not what they’re made for. Again, we know this because we understand how they work. The fact is that we treat a bacterial infection with an antibiotic known to have activity, be it bacteriostatic or bacteriocidal, specifically against that organism because it works, and it is reproducible.
Marc McDougal- you would be a good politician! You know, the easiest way to poo-poo something is to tell mostly the truth about it, but to also introduce some seemingly minor wrong facts which in the end totally negate all of the truth that was said. Nonetheless, the reader minimally knowledgeable about the subject will see most of the true facts, recognize them as truth and be impressed. They will usually miss the small lies and will totally fall under the power of the flawed argument. I think you should really research the other side of the issue here.
My brother was a sufferer of Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome, which is an incurable form of tachycardia and results in the early death of its sufferers if they do not have open heart surgery.
He was suffering a heart attack every week when he came to homoeopathy. He would faint at train platforms, riding a bike, walking up the street. He was grey and sick - and scared of the operation too, as it is not 100% safe or even effective.
The homoeopath prescibed a remedy for him, and he has been free of symptoms for over two years now. He never went in for the surgery, and his physician cannot find any evidence of heart problems now despite exhaustive tests.
There is NO WAY the placebo effect can cure a life-threatening condition like this. Due to this success my mother has been treated for Angina and is off her medication for the past year, I have had my Hepatitis and Asthma cured, my baby niece has been cured of Eczema and may cat even had a suppurating ulcer cured. How would placebo explain all those results?
Homoeopathy opens up questions, definitely. Science has trouble explaining it. Science always has trouble explaining things - that is the purpose of Science, to discover the reason, the cause of things. Do you really think that we already know everything there is to know?
If Homoeopathy can do something that cannot be explained, then Science needs to pick up its game and find out why.
Why do I always seem to engage in disagreements with australians on this forum? Anyway, I really don’t care about this topic all that much, nor was my post written by me (it was an excerpt), nor was it more than a pinch from the entire article. As I said, I stumbled upon it, and remembered this post, decided to share in case it enlightened anyone. But the rest of the original article should be read, not just what I posted. I am far too busy researching things I carry an interest in to spend time researching “the other side” of homeopathy, but I respect all of your intrests, as I guess you will respect my departure from this post. Goodbye
Magic Water 
Australia
What exactly were the pellets made of?
I want to correct a misleading statement made by the individual identified as “A Practitioner of Homeopathic Medicine”. Women’s College Hospital is now part of Sunnybrook and Women’s College Health Sciences Centre. Sunnybrook and Women’s College Health Sciences Centre is not a homeopathic hospital and does not treat its patients with homeopathic remedies.
Women’s College Hospital can trace it roots back to the Women’s Medical College which Dr. Emily Stowe a physician trained in homeopathy help found in 1883. Dr. Stowe who received her medical degree from New York Medical College for Women in 1867 was the first woman to openly practice medicine in Canada and also campaigned for women’s rights and social reform. She died in 1903 and Women’s Medical College amalgamated with the University of Toronto in 1906.
It is interesting to note that Dr. Stowe’s husband died prematurely from tuberculosis and Dr. Stowe had to retire early from her medical practice after breaking her hip. I guess the miracle of homeopathy was not able to cure her husband or help her cope with her injury. Since the collapse of homeopathy in the United States the average life expectancy has steadily increased and infant and child mortality rates have decreased. Many supporters of homeopathy would like you to believe that homeopathy is completely safe. If you do some research you will discover that this statement is not true and homeopathy treatment has its risks.
I know that homeopathy is not a placebo but I do not know if it is the answer to the world’s health problems. Conventional medicine has its limitations but look at Africa who is crying out for conventional prescription medicine not homeopaths to deal with their AIDs epidemic. If you decide to try homeopathy good luck.
Um…interesting thread…well no not really, but I had to start this reply somewhere. While I’m no big fan of the FDA, the reason they regulate homeopathic remedies is because homeopathic remedies puport to contain tiny amounts of minerals, hormones, and plant chemicals that could be fatal in higher doses. They need to analyse the crap so they know there isn’t enough of a particular poison in it to bump off some hippie somewhere.
The development of viral vaccines does have a bit of inspiration from homeopathic theory, but it does not operate by homeopathic principles…it involves the introduction of dead viral DNA or RNA into a human body, so the human body can adapt and develop antibodies and other defensive mechanisms against that virus without actually getting infected. It has nothing to do with the quantum vibration of dilute virii.
Homeopathic medicine has its roots in sympathetic magic…an interesting topic to discuss but not especially scientific…all this quantum vibration theory was introduced later to give it legitimacy against the dreaded hobgoblin of western science. Sure there are many mechanisms which aren’t completely understood…for example, we know what SSRI antidepressants do, but it’s still not entirely clear why or which receptor site does exactly what, or why chemicals which have a similar action in the body can have subtle but clearly different results – paxil, prozac, and zoloft act on seemingly similar principles but can frequently have different results with different people. Similarly, trenbolone, deca-durabolin, winstrol, and testosterone seem to act via similar mechanisms (which seem to include action on the androgen receptor site) but the subtleties of their different actions are not quite understood. But the neat thing about western science is that, despite conservativism and occasional to frequent financial corruption, there are still a lot of dedicated researchers who really, honestly WANT to some day find out how everything works. Will they? Maybe, maybe not, but don’t act like everyone who follows western science, which actually has been working fairly well for a lot of things in our lives, is trying to hide some deep truth found within homeopathic medicine.
Hi. I’m a fuckin’ retard. I love homeopathy. I like to pay $60 for a 3oz. bottle of water. I watch Maury Povich and read my horroscope. Oprah really speaks to me. Oh, plus, I believe that England really has a better health care system than America, that’s why people have to wait months for necessary surgeries in England…because it’s so much better and they accept homeopathy.