Anna's Training Log Part 2 (Part 1)

Of course it depends on the metrics you are using, but I will go out on a limb and say this is mostly not true.

I assume you want more muscular legs. You did not answer my non-rhetorical question from a few days ago, but here is a hint…your body adjusts to all your walking by making sure you have less muscle mass on your legs. And on your body in general. There is always a price, there is no free exchange of energy. Your 30k steps might cost me a thousand calories and you only half that amount or less, but this isn’t because you are brilliant and gifted at walking. It is because your body has made sure it is small enough that it won’t burn all those calories.

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@anna_5588 To put this another way, look at pretty much any top-level endurance athlete. They are super lean because their body responded to the stimulus they gave it over many years by making it capable of running as far as possible with minimal energy expenditure. This is great, because this is what they are shooting for. You’re shooting for a different result, but you’re giving your body the same sort of stimulus, which is not a recipe for success.

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I’d like you to do me a favour. Listen to the Curios Climber Podcast. Specifically, the episode “What recovery looks like, with Mina and Steven”. You’ll find that a lot of what @Bagsy has been highlighting is shared by a woman who suffered from RED-S.

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@voxel I listened to the episode. There’s no way I could handle what Mina did. Working out is too important. During the pandemic, sometimes the only thing that prevented me from doing something stupid was knowing that I’d have to wait longer to get back to lifting.
One thing I hate is starting over after putting large amounts of effort into something. I put large amounts of effort into getting to an enviable body composition. If I have to be fluffy to have my period because of some genetic set point, I’m not willing to do that

Week 8: day 7- fun with front squats and snatches

Front squats: 5x1-70kg, 5x2-65kg, 5x3-60kg
Db snatches: 3x2/side- 45lbs!!!
“Conditioning”
Db snatches: 5x3/side-40lbs EMOM
Db manmakers: 5x3-25lb dbs EMOM

  • felt great this morning - gym friend was training legs so I tagged along, front squats felt heavier than expected but pretty surprised I could do 70kg on repeat, holy crap those snatches felt good, should do them more often. Can’t believe I can snatch 45lbs now. I remember when cleaning 45lbs felt almost impossible
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Wow. I think that is the most honest and direct statement you’ve made regarding this whole subject as far is I can remember.

Thanks. I really appreciate that.

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This is assuming you didn’t put large amounts of effort into something that was completely misguided and unhealthy. It’s not “some genetic set point”, it’s the bare minimum body fat your body requires to perform. You should look up what happens to female runners who lose their period.

I don’t really know what to say about this beyond the fact that this is very concerning, Anna. You’re unwilling to afford yourself a basic biological necessity, and furthermore, you think you can achieve any measurable level of strength or comfort without it.

“I’m not willing to do what it takes to be optimally healthy, because I’m comfortable where I’m at, even though a period of discomfort would ultimately lead to a greater comfort down the line.”

That sentiment is shared by another group also: lazy obese people.

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Since only certain portions of me tend to get emulated here, I feel it would be remiss if I didn’t note that I completely overhauled my nutrition and, in turn, bodyweight and strength over the span of the past year and a half when I was informed that my health markers were concerning.

But people don’t want to do the things pwn does in THESE situations.

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That ended up turning a negative/warning sign into mega win.

If you don’t mind my asking, what was your internal process for taking that in and deciding what to do with what you were presented with?

I’d also understand if you didn’t want to go there.

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But this also gives you a false sense of what is realistic.

“It’s not because we spent a long time making a mistake that we need to continue making it” is a saying I think is really relevant. If what you put your effort into was the wrong thing then hiding behind the amount of effort put in is just moronic"

This is a tad hard to read but to each is there own. The only question I have is do you truly have an enviable body composition? A few posts above you were complaining that women who do not lift have better legs than you + there are no physique update pics recently so it is a tad hard to know

Thanks for sharing this. I listened to it. It’s refreshing that people are more comfortable discussing these topics openly but even more so that male voices are included. I’m sorry if you identified with anything mentioned in this episode.

Anna has shown for years that recovering her period is not a priority. She knows what amenorrhea is as well as its effects. She knows that being on HRT at her age is not normal. She knows that her relationship with food and exercise is not normal. I think she knows her current condition affects her mood and academics.

I have tried a number of times to explain here why restoring menses is essential, and I am not convinced that I can effect change. Anna has put herself in a situation conducive to perpetuating the situation; she lives extremely far from her family, where she can avoid her mother’s comments on the missing period, and she actively posts on this male-dominated forum, whose audience might not grasp the issue so well. Not to mention the cherrypicking from the logs of other people whose bodies, lifestyles, and mental health are the total opposite of hers. I know Anna at some point worked with professionals, but I have a strong feeling that she did that to appease those here who advised her to do so more than because she wanted to change. I also doubt she was fully open with them.

It is very painful to watch someone go through something like this, and I can only imagine how her family and friends feel. I am not a medical doctor and know that these things are not a one-size-fits-all, but as someone who suffered from amenorrhea for a few years and overcame it, I know what it takes to recover, and what Anna more or less continues to do is probably the farthest thing from that. But I also understand that she is currently not interested in getting better. Only she can decide that for herself, and if she ever does, I suspect it would require being 100% honest with an experienced professional. She would have to go all in. It takes ages for obese people to reach that state and, if they choose, to become healthy. Anna has destroyed her body for many years, and restoring menses would not happen overnight. Not that she has ever really tried. Sounds harsh, but I don’t think she has found a reason compelling enough to recover her period even though it would improve her athletic and academic performance, which points to a different yet related issue.

Anna lives her life in a very robotic and compulsive way that makes sense to no one but her. She seems to want nothing but to work herself to death and remains set in her black-and-white ways, as shown by her responses to helpful posters here who recognize her potential and want her to get healthy. There’s always some reason why a suggestion does not fit her narrative. Again, I am not a doctor, but I would not be surprised if there were some underlying cause to this that we don’t know. Maybe Anna does not even entirely understand. Eating disorders usually stem from issues with control, and I know that was the case for me. I think it would be very helpful for Anna to pursue not only someone who specializes in eating disorders but also someone who can peel back the root issue and help her explore her emotions. All of her comments on this forum suggest that she is a living machine, yet I still like to think otherwise. Might take a lot of digging.

The sad reality is that it might not click for Anna until it is too late. Not to get political, but it very much reminds me of people this year who refused a vaccine offered to them for free despite knowing some of the consequences and ended up on a hospital bed, or worse, their death bed. I sincerely hope that is not the case here. I must say it sort of weirds me out when people still offer programming advice to Anna, because, realistically, she will not be training much longer at this rate.

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Before losing the weight, I was at least 30% body fat. I was 4’10 or 4’11 weighing around 100lbs, and didn’t work out so very little of it was muscle

This “bare minimum differs considerably between women. Some can stay quite lean and still have their periods, some need to be fluffier. From what I’ve heard, it tends to be pretty close to where you were at when you started, which in my case is a body comp I cannot accept
Since I don’t want kids, I’d much rather go on hrt or something for life to deal with the bone density issues

It wouldn’t just be a period if it turns out my set point is high

@T3hPwnisher rhe difference is that your overhaul made you better. Even though you lost strength for a bit, you got leaner, then when you built strength back up, you got way more conditioned and stronger and were basically just as lean. I’d have to get fat and weak, then possible stay fat

Well… it’s a lot nicer than where I started from in 6th grade. I have some ab definition sometimes now


You can judged for yourself

It’s not only about your body fat. You can lose your period due to excessive training, stress and other factors. So instead of focusing on that one aspect, you should view it as multifactorial. Your 30k steps matter. An alcoholic might be used to drinking 2 bottles of vodka per day. Do you think the important step in recovery js keeping him at that level and focus on not drinking a third one because “he is used to his current dose”?

You were a child! People change through puberty and age. Let go of the past finally!
When I was in 6th grade I came off 3 years of cancer treatment. Do I still compare myself to that and base my health, athletic and nutritional decisions on how I looked then? No because it’s stupid!

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If I could cut down to 20k,eat the same amount (or more) and not gain fat, I would.
I say 20k because moving helps me think. A nontrivial amount of my writing and sometimes homework is done on walks

Boys lean out and gain muscle during puberty, girls gain fat

I feel like we’re talking to a brick wall.
You have all the information you need and you made your decision accordingly. Although it’s not what I’d like it to be, it’s up to you and that’s fine.
I think we as a group should accept that at this point.

I like that you’re honest about it in your recent posts, that helps to understand your thought process a lot better.

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Wait that’s 11-12 how old are you now.

Don’t get me wrong you do not look bad, you look much healthier than I was expecting but I wouldn’t say enviable certainly for the cost that it’s taking you.

After seeing a picture I 100% agree with this. Body fat does not seem to be the issue (not a medical expert), she does not appear to be at such a low body fat that it would be the cause, definitely not by itself.

Which brings me to this and how I understand you thinking/ fears better having seen the picture. You are so zoned in on body fat being the issue and the solution that you feel you would have to get ‘Fluffy’ because you are not drastically thin at the moment.

That is possible if you cut down very slowly like a 100 a day per week. Your body would adapt at that rate and you would put on minimal weight. Ironically if you had stopped at 20k steps then you probably would be eating the same amount while not carrying excess bodyfat.

You would think there’s a reason for this…

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I am significantly weaker.

:face_with_monocle:
From what I see, you’ve gotten quite a bit stronger adjusting for bodyweight

That’s because you only see the things that fit the narrative you want.

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Happy to discuss dude.

It was honestly simple. Got told by the doc my LDL was 200 and people with LDL that high get put on a statin. Didn’t want to take meds and knew I could stick with any kind of diet based on my previous experience (I ate my way INTO that situation), so I asked the doc what I could do.

That said, that doc was an idiot, had never physically seen me before and just assumed I was some fat guy and hand waved me saying “Well yeah, reduce saturated fats and eat less red meat, but really, you’re gonna need a statin”. I pretty much went to zero on sat fats and red meat (which was a mistake, but I do things in extremes) and rubbed it in his face

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