Androgel Hell (Long Rant)

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I am not quite in the over 35 set but this is where the experience is so I think I am in the right place.

I will try to keep this as brief as possible, but I have a lot on my mind and need to put all of this out there.

I am a 31 year old male with Hypogonadism. I have been on TRT for 18 months now. Looking back, it seems I have always had relatively low Test, (late onset puberty, fatigue, NO results from lifting etc.) with a few exceptions where things felt right for a couple of months and then went back down to “normal” (read fairly lousy) And even though that was “normal” I knew my true self was different.

Things really started to decline about 2 years ago and I felt like an old man. My joints were hurting, moody, lack of libido and ED, I wasn’t getting any restful sleep, I got gout in my big toe even though I am not overweight. (I was 5’ 11" 170 lbs) I started to do some reading and asked my doctor to check my testosterone. He was skeptical but willing and I came back with a reading of 203.

My LH was normal. He immediately put me on monthly injections at his office and I started to feel better, started kicking ass at work again (I’m in recruiting/sales) Test went up to almost 800. I started working out and holy hell, I actually understand why people like exercise! I worked my way up to 195 lbs and put on a lot of muscle. My libido was back, gout went away, joints felt great, complete recovery.

More importantly, for the first time I can remember, I felt like the real ME on a consistent basis.

Every month I could feel the test go down and know when I needed a new shot, but I was managing. About 8 months ago my employer switched insurance and I had to find a new doctor. I had my records transferred and the new doctor still insisted on a complete blood panel. I had not had a shot that month and my testosterone was 338. LH and everything was normal.

The new doc freaked out over a high creatinine level due to the creatine I was taking and asked me if I was looking for Testosterone for bodybuilding. I told him no, and pointed out that he could see right on the report that my levels sucked, but that now that working out finally did something for me I was intent on improving my health. He advised me to stop taking creatine and wanted subsequent bloodwork to prove that I was off of it.

I quit for 2 weeks and then picked it back up after my bloodwork. I am not looking for an artificial gain I just want to feel fucking normal so I can get something out of doing the hard work myself!

Part of the new insurance was they don’t cover injections. My new doctor also refused anything but Androgel. It worked okay for a few months, subsequent bloodwork put me back in the 700s and I never felt quite as good as with the injections. My insurance sucks so bad that I pay a ton for the Androgel anyway so depending on how much injections cost it might be a wash for me to buy them out of pocket.

However, I have felt a gradual decline back into and now worse than I originally felt. The last month has seen me completely crash. My nipples hurt and itch, I am getting fat, am falling asleep at my desk at 4:00 PM, I have NO motivation at work or in the gym, my joints hurt like hell and my libido is zero. Even worse is the anxiety and depression.

If too much is going on at once, even stupid things like my kids crying and my wife trying to talk to me at the same time I sometimes lose it and lash out. I haven’t hit anyone, but I have cussed them out and I did punch a door in my house that I am now having to replace. I feel like a total ass and completely out of control.

I did more reading on this site and others and find that I am probably Aromatizing the testosterone and making estrogen. I called my doctor 2 weeks ago when I just couldn’t take it anymore. he took 3 days to call me back and he didn’t even listen to me, just wanted to get me off the phone and order tests of testosterone and Prolactin.

I asked about Estradiol and he accused me of reading too much and asked again if I wanted it for bodybuilding. I was pissed. A week went by and his order never got called in. I decided to fire him and picked an endocrinologist out of my providers list. I went to him and got the same runaround and questions. It seems he pulled my records from the other doctor and I am confident there are probably some sort of notes accusing me of seeking steroids, but I can’t trust myself not to be paranoid in the state I am in.

He ordered bloodwork for testosterone and prolactin, refused to look at E2. I asked about arimidex and he nearly flipped out. I didn’t dare say a word about hCG with Manny Ramirez scandal blaring on the TV in the waiting room. I went and had them done, it took him a week to call me back with my repeated phonecalls. He has his assistant do it.

She said my test was normal but couldn’t give me a number and that my prolactin was slightly high but normal. (again no numbers) she is supposed to be sending the results to me in the mail but I have nothing a week later.

I wanted to talk to the doctor because I have 2 new symptoms. Pain that comes and goes in my left testicle and rare but recurring heart palpitations that hurt up the left side of my neck. (My last cholesterol scores were great, I don’t think there is a problem there) I told her and she said she would tell the doctor and hung up.

I have lost all my assertiveness it is lower than it was when I first sought treatment. Fighting with doctors is not my idea of a good time.

Endocrinologist wants me off of Androgel for 2-3 months and then retest everything. I can’t afford to wait. 2 months of this will see me fired from my job, divorced, and maybe worse. A week of androgel and the extreme mood swings have tempered a bit, but the other symptoms are worse. My joints are killing me, I am so tired, and depressed beyond belief.

Sorry for the long rant and being a drama queen. Please understand that this is a complete 180 from who I am as a person and it is disconcerting to say the least. I swear if I didn’t have a wife and kids I would probably eat a bullet.

Thanks for listening. It helps to get it all out on paper. Now I just need to figure out what to do.

Jesus f…Christ man life is too short to live like that! Keep switching docs until you find one that will listen to you. Search under anti-aging docs in your area. Even if you have to intially pay out of pocket get that under control.

Anybody know any Anti Aging docs in Salt Lake City Utah? I haven’t been able to find any yet. I am more than willing to go out of pocket at this point.

And thank you to whoever edited my post to make it more readable. I was on a roll with the huge paragraphs…

[quote]Porter Glockwell wrote:
Anybody know any Anti Aging docs in Salt Lake City Utah? I haven’t been able to find any yet. I am more than willing to go out of pocket at this point.

And thank you to whoever edited my post to make it more readable. I was on a roll with the huge paragraphs…[/quote]

Wow, that’s frustrating to read. Sounds like your doc has quite an ego. You might want to follow this link and ask them for a recommendation on doctors that are prescribing HRT in the SLC area. They should be able to point you in the right direction.

Thank you… I will give them a call. Both of my (former)doctors have egos a mile wide

Porter,

Hang in there man!! You’ll get throught this. I am going through similar issues (tired, anger, etc). I’m looking for a good doc in the Northern VA area myself and am going to post a seperate thread asking.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Porter, love the inclusion of some local lore in your nametag.

go to utahpowerlifting.org The guy you are looking for is named Stumpy. His real name is Steve Fredine, he wrote a series of articles for Elitefts.com about his trials and tribulations with HRT, including issues with Docs that don’t want to help. He lifts with the crew at Ripped Fitness in Draper.

Some of his crew post on that forum. I lurk, but don’t post there. Ask for someone to put you in touch with Stumpy. And go to elitefts.com and search for his articles. I think there are 3. I met him once, and he said he still owes them a follow up article.

good luck
old lardass

damn man, been there. I just keep going till I found a good doctor…the younger they are the more receptive they seem to be to shots and testing E2. Good luck man.

Update… still in hell. Locally I have found 3 anti-aging doctors. One specializes in women and can’t help me, the second wants $1,000.00 just to see me for an initial consult (ouch), and the third is into a lot of new-age herbal stuff and tries to stay away from “manufactured” hormones as a last resort. -Not my idea of a proactive doc.

I feel dead. Worse than ever. Can low-T kill me? It feels like it. Okay enough whining. Back to the drawing board. Gotta look for a new doctor.

Thanks for the advice mjnewland, I will try to find Stumpy/Steve.

Man save yourself a lot of time and effort and see “Dr Google”. This isn’t a hard problem to “manage” by yourself and believe me, it doesn’t matter who you see you’ll be managing it to a degree yourself anyway. Best of luck and we all know how you feel. It’s a horrible road to go down to get this taken care of.

I understand your situation, here is a web site that may help www.renewman.com all they do it the TRT and HRT. I have been on androgel for about 6 months but have not had the problems you have had, but before I started it I was not a pleasent person to be around. I seems when I hit 43 my T levels dropped like a rock for no reason, the moodiness, lack of motitvation, lack of progress in the gym and lack of libo (not good, just got married a year prior) was aggravating. I did alot of reasearch prior to going to my MD, I got a similar response but I did find an MD that worked with me and actually listened to me, it makes a world of difference. Good luck and I hope you get what you need.

I understand your situation, here is a web site that may help www.renewman.com all they do it the TRT and HRT. I have been on androgel for about 6 months but have not had the problems you have had, but before I started it I was not a pleasent person to be around. I seems when I hit 43 my T levels dropped like a rock for no reason, the moodiness, lack of motitvation, lack of progress in the gym and lack of libo (not good, just got married a year prior) was aggravating. I did alot of reasearch prior to going to my MD, I got a similar response but I did find an MD that worked with me and actually listened to me, it makes a world of difference. Good luck and I hope you get what you need.

[quote]Caged wrote:
Wow, that’s frustrating to read. Sounds like your doc has quite an ego. You might want to follow this link and ask them for a recommendation on doctors that are prescribing HRT in the SLC area. They should be able to point you in the right direction.

[/quote]

Take Caged’s advice. I spent a couple weeks trying to find a TRT doc the “traditional” way. I called three compounding pharmacies in my area asking for docs who prescribe T, HCG and/or HGH. Got a name and had an appt for two days later. Sure sounds like you need some Arimidex and HCG.

When insurance companies have the cost of T-gels put side by side with injections they change their minds. And when transdermals do not work well, they have what choice. Injected T is cheap!!! At Sam’s Club with a Business membership, or at Costco, 10mg of 200mg/ml Watson’s test cyp is closer to $40 not $100.

You want to be self injecting and injecting at least twice a week.

Many are forced to self medicate with anastrozole and some need to get E2 labs directly, bypassing the doc.

What are your thyroid levels?

Get hard copies of your lab data and retain!!!

Thanks to mjnewland for the referral, Stump is a great guy and hooked me up with his doctor’s office. I have an appointment Monday and will keep you all updated. Thanks to everyone for your help so far. Things improved quickly when I first started HRT so hopefully I can start feeling like myself next week.

KSman, thanks for the advice I will talk to the insurance company about injections. Androgel is costing me over $100.00/month out of pocket after the insurance portion.

My last complete labs were almost a year ago and Thyroid levels were normal. LH was at the low end of normal. I don’t have it in front of me right now but will take my entire folder with me to the Dr. on Monday along with all of the articles by MDs I have read and just lay out what I want.

I am done with this.

[quote]KSman wrote:
When insurance companies have the cost of T-gels put side by side with injections they change their minds. And when transdermals do not work well, they have what choice. Injected T is cheap!!! At Sam’s Club with a Business membership, or at Costco, 10mg of 200mg/ml Watson’s test cyp is closer to $40 not $100.

You want to be self injecting and injecting at least twice a week.

Many are forced to self medicate with anastrozole and some need to get E2 labs directly, bypassing the doc.

What are your thyroid levels?

Get hard copies of your lab data and retain!!![/quote]

KSman, how do you “bypass” the Doc?
Don’t you need a scrip?

Shit I’d LOVE to be able to BYPASS these asshats!

[quote]Porter Glockwell wrote:

KSman, thanks for the advice I will talk to the insurance company about injections. Androgel is costing me over $100.00/month out of pocket after the insurance portion.
[/quote]

In the scale of things, if you have to pay for your injectable T out of pocket, you are still way ahead.

Hey Porter,

I’m out in NV. Also longtime lurker/reader. I’ve recently signed up through Renewman, and the closest doc for me is in Provo (3 hr drive). I’ve been tested and headed to new doc on the 18th. It’s Dr. David Voss at the Freedom Center for Advanced Medicine. Thus far, service and pricing has been excellent through the group. Initial estimate is $120/month for injections. I can keep you posted if your interested.

The others are correct. Life is too short, get it taken care of. Best of Luck

I think what he meant by bypass was to pay for your own E2 labs so you can show it to a skeptical or know-nothing doctor who won’t order the test