Low Test - Advice?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

I’m almost 32 and I just went to the doctors and got some blood work drawn. I’m not sure why, but I asked for my testosterone levels to be checked. I guess I was curious. I don’t think I have any of the symptoms, I mean, I’ve been putting on muscle while losing some weight, and I have an active sex drive. So I had none of the indicators. My cholesterol is great, apparently, as is all the rest of my blood work.

I’ve read a little about testosterone and all that, but I’m kind of freaking out. I didn’t expect anything like this until I was at least 40.

In any event, my doctor sent me an email saying that we should talk about the results and apparently I have testosterone waiting for me at the pharmacy.

Here are the results:

TSH,BLD,QN - 3.080 (Standard range: 0.320-5.500 MIU/ML)

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 2.75
ALT 31 (Standard Range: 0-50 U/L)

I’ve been dieting for almost a year now - not crash dieting or anything, but I have lost 80 lbs. My weights have been going up, so I figured my test was at least average.

My shoulder has been killing me recently and I went in for an X ray. I got conflicting news on it - one that it was impingement syndrome and the other that it was arthritis. This might be a stupid question, but could Testosterone help this problem?

This whole thing is making me nervous. Any advise? Words of wisdom? Translation of the numbers? Is 2.75 incredibly low?

Also, if I go on testosterone, what type should I ask for? Do I get a choice? I’ve heard that some testosterone is hard on the joints (winstrol, IIRC), so obviously I want to stay the heck away from that.

Thanks all!

2

Also, and please forgive my ignorance, but should I ask for the stuff that makes your body produce more testosterone? I can’t remember the name of it, but I remember reading about body builders who would take steroids and then they took something to kick start their bodies own production of testosterone.

Would this help? I’ve sent my dr. an email and I suspect I’ll have a follow up appointment, so I’ll get more advice then.

Thanks again.

3

Please post range for the total T [TT].

When did this start and any blows to the head or whiplash prior to that? Any change to width of peripheral vision?

TSH: you should test for fT3, fT4
Any thyroid problems in the family?
Are you using iodized salt?

For TRT, you get testosterone, not one of the derivatives. No joint issues.

Read the “protocol for injections” sticky and other TRT related posts.

You should get serum estradiol tested. [Not total estrogens!]

You should have LH/FSH tested. If low, the problem may be the pituitary. If high, the problem is with your testicles. With younger guys where age related problems are not expected, the reasons need to be understood as there is a possible pituitary adinoma. hCG can be injected every other day [EOD], 250iu SC. That would be done if LH/FSH is low and if the testes are strongly LH responsive, the results can be good. Do not go with high doses of hCG as that can make things worse. SERMS [clomid, nolvadex] are not suitable for long term use.

A few drugs, Rx or OTC can mess up hormones.

Loss of weight: A very low fat diet can mess up hormones. You also need EFA’s [essential fatty acids] in your diet. Low cholesterol is a problem.

4

[quote]KSman wrote:
Please post range for the total T [TT].[/quote]

1.75-7.81 Ng/mL

Mine was 2.75

[quote]KSman wrote:
When did this start and any blows to the head or whiplash prior to that? Any change to width of peripheral vision?[/quote]

No blows to the head or whiplash. To be honest, when I was getting my blood work done, I just wanted to get a ‘baseline’, so that in 10 years (or so) I could tell how much it had fallen. In the past 5-7 years I gained a lot of weight, was depressed, had a low sex drive, etc. I didn’t think about it having anything to do with T levels. In the past year (40 weeks) I’ve been working out/eating right and I’ve lost about 80 lbs.

I’m still tired and my sex drive is up, but not real high. I don’t know, i sort of assumed that because I was eating between 2000 -2500 cals a day that I might be tired because of that (plus the workouts). Now I think it might have been the low T.

[quote]KSman wrote:
TSH: you should test for fT3, fT4
Any thyroid problems in the family?
Are you using iodized salt?[/quote]

My mother has hypothiroidism (sp?), but I think my levels were fine. The TSH (Thyriod simulating hormone) test indicated I was in normal range: 3.080 (Range: 0.320-5.500 MIU/ML). Of course, I’m not a doctor, so I’m just assuming that this test would indicate a normal thyroid.

As to iodized salt - I don’t know. I don’t typically ‘salt’ my food with extra salt.

[quote]KSman wrote:
For TRT, you get testosterone, not one of the derivatives. No joint issues.

Read the “protocol for injections” sticky and other TRT related posts.

You should get serum estradiol tested. [Not total estrogens!]

You should have LH/FSH tested. If low, the problem may be the pituitary. If high, the problem is with your testicles. With younger guys where age related problems are not expected, the reasons need to be understood as there is a possible pituitary adinoma. hCG can be injected every other day [EOD], 250iu SC. That would be done if LH/FSH is low and if the testes are strongly LH responsive, the results can be good. Do not go with high doses of hCG as that can make things worse. SERMS [clomid, nolvadex] are not suitable for long term use.

A few drugs, Rx or OTC can mess up hormones.[/quote]

I’m going to a urologist today (dr. referral), so I might have some more tests.

The only related thing I can think of is that when I was 18-19 (over a decade ago) I took some prohormones for two months or so. Could this be related?

Thanks for the info on hCG. Does it act as a ‘kick start’ or if I’m on it I’ll have to take some sort of TRT for the rest of my life?

[quote]KSman wrote:
Loss of weight: A very low fat diet can mess up hormones. You also need EFA’s [essential fatty acids] in your diet. Low cholesterol is a problem.[/quote]

My diet isn’t really low fat. I take a lot of fish oil pills, and I don’t cut fat out of my diet. I would estimate that it’s probably between 20-30% of my calories.

My cholestrol is normal:
Chol: 148 (range <200- MG/DL)
Chol (Non HDL): 107 (no range given).

Thanks for all your help.

5

2 things - I just read through my emails and the introductory email states that there will be a delay with message posting. So negative kudos to me for blatantly missing that.

The second thing - I’ve been wondering/reading a little bit about prohormones. I took some when I was basically a kid (19) for a few months (as I indicated above). If you mess with your hormones, could you mess them up for life? Even if you only messed with them for a month or two?

6

I’m 30 and have been hypogonadal since age 23.

[quote]Pangloss wrote:
Any advise? Words of wisdom?[/quote]

Yeah. See a competent uro-andrologist or endocrinologist. Works far better than any internet chat.

7

Secondary hypogonadism can also be idiopathic, as is the case with me. I never had a pituitary injury or tumor or radiation therapy.

8

[quote]Pangloss wrote:
If you mess with your hormones, could you mess them up for life? Even if you only messed with them for a month or two?[/quote]

Yes. Hence why many people who’ve used prohormones and steroids acquire secondary hypogonadism and need TRT for life.

9

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m 30 and have been hypogonadal since age 23.

[quote]Pangloss wrote:
Any advise? Words of wisdom?[/quote]

Yeah. See a competent uro-andrologist or endocrinologist. Works far better than any internet chat. [/quote]

Thanks, I have an appointment with a urologis after work today. My primary care doctor seemingly just wrote up a script for testosterone on my bloodwork alone. Which made me very concerned…

10

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Pangloss wrote:
If you mess with your hormones, could you mess them up for life? Even if you only messed with them for a month or two?[/quote]

Yes. Hence why many people who’ve used prohormones and steroids acquire secondary hypogonadism and need TRT for life. [/quote]

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean ‘secondary’ hypogonadism? I’m unfamilar with the nomenclature, but wouldn’t this be primary?

11

[quote]Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Pangloss wrote:
If you mess with your hormones, could you mess them up for life? Even if you only messed with them for a month or two?[/quote]

Yes. Hence why many people who’ve used prohormones and steroids acquire secondary hypogonadism and need TRT for life. [/quote]

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean ‘secondary’ hypogonadism? I’m unfamilar with the nomenclature, but wouldn’t this be primary? [/quote]

Primary is the case in which there is a problem with the testicles, as KSman has written.

Prohormones and steroids cause the pituitary to lower FSH and LH secretion, causing secondary hypogonadism.

12

Ah, thank you.

I just got back from the urologist. He said that I shouldn’t be worried. That it’s normal and that I could be psyching myself into this. I have more blood work tomorrow.

He kind of ticked me off though because I had explained to him that I had lost a bunch of weight (80lbs, so far, about 40 left to go). He said something to the effect that he didn’t want me to use low T as an excuse for obesity. This was after saying that I shouldn’t psych myself out.

I agree, i shouldn’t psych myself out, but that comment came out of the blue to me. I didn’t say anything because I was a bit stunned. I gained weight because I didn’t workout and ate like a pig. No excuses here. I’ve been working out and eating right for almost a year now. It’s not easy, but I’m not looking for something to blame. I’m just looking to be healthy.

13

I’m curious, what are the chances that this blood test was a fluke? I’m curious, would anything I did dramatically effect my T levels in this way? Like, say I sat the day before or had a huge meal?

I don’t know, obviously I’m new to all of this…

14

I don’t know what psyching has to do with this? Either your levels are off or not.

I can’t interpret your T value because I’ve read none of my values or others in nothing except ng/dl and I’m too lazy to look up the conversion for ng/ml. Do you have the reading in ng/dl? Is your level normal now?

No, nothing you did could severely affect your T value. Shit like working out and sex cause TRANSIENT, INSIGNIFICANT hormonal changes.

I care not to think of my hypogonadism at all really, except when I see my doctor. I never read into shit other than my lab values every half year. If I feel OK, I’m good. And my values have been 700 to 1000 ng/dl for 8 years from using 10 grams of Androgel per day.

15

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t know what psyching has to do with this? Either your levels are off or not. [/quote]

True - I think, or at least I feel, that the Dr was more of the attitude that I’m low and it’s not dangerous so maybe I can live with it. That was the vibe I got.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I can’t interpret your T value because I’ve read none of my values or others in nothing except ng/dl and I’m too lazy to look up the conversion for ng/ml. Do you have the reading in ng/dl? Is your level normal now? [/quote]

I’m getting more bloodwork today, so I’ll post my levels when I get the results. I appreciate your help at interpreting them. I don’t have the reading in ng/dl.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
No, nothing you did could severely affect your T value. Shit like working out and sex cause TRANSIENT, INSIGNIFICANT hormonal changes. [/quote]

Could my levels have been effected by gaining a bunch of weight? My wife thinks that my levels might be on the way up - since I’ve been workingout/losing weight for the past year. If I wait 90 days, could I be producing more testosterone? I guess I’m asking more of the odds, since I know that quite a lot is possible, medically speaking.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I care not to think of my hypogonadism at all really, except when I see my doctor. I never read into shit other than my lab values every half year. If I feel OK, I’m good. And my values have been 700 to 1000 ng/dl for 8 years from using 10 grams of Androgel per day. [/quote]

I wouldn’t think about it at all, to be honest, but right now I don’t know exactly what feeling ‘okay’ is. One of the things that I’ve been thinking about recently is just how tired I am all the time. My wife used to comment on it a lot. I thought that it wasn’t that bad and was because I couldn’t really sleep all that well.

16

  1. Hypogonadism IS dangerous. It can lead to diabetes, heart disease, ovwerweight, infertility, impotence, and other problems. Feeling like shit is dangerous too. How competent of a person can someone be if they feel like shit all the time?

  2. I don’t know what your levels are affected by. Go get a blood test and read it. I doubt weight changes affect T values much.

  3. If you’re tired all the time, something IS wrong. Either you don’t sleep enough, are overworked, have a medical condition causing you to feel that way, or whatever else makes people feel tired.

17

[quote]Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t know what psyching has to do with this? Either your levels are off or not. [/quote]

True - I think, or at least I feel, that the Dr was more of the attitude that I’m low and it’s not dangerous so maybe I can live with it. That was the vibe I got.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I can’t interpret your T value because I’ve read none of my values or others in nothing except ng/dl and I’m too lazy to look up the conversion for ng/ml. Do you have the reading in ng/dl? Is your level normal now? [/quote]

I’m getting more bloodwork today, so I’ll post my levels when I get the results. I appreciate your help at interpreting them. I don’t have the reading in ng/dl.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
No, nothing you did could severely affect your T value. Shit like working out and sex cause TRANSIENT, INSIGNIFICANT hormonal changes. [/quote]

Could my levels have been effected by gaining a bunch of weight? My wife thinks that my levels might be on the way up - since I’ve been workingout/losing weight for the past year. If I wait 90 days, could I be producing more testosterone? I guess I’m asking more of the odds, since I know that quite a lot is possible, medically speaking.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I care not to think of my hypogonadism at all really, except when I see my doctor. I never read into shit other than my lab values every half year. If I feel OK, I’m good. And my values have been 700 to 1000 ng/dl for 8 years from using 10 grams of Androgel per day. [/quote]

I wouldn’t think about it at all, to be honest, but right now I don’t know exactly what feeling ‘okay’ is. One of the things that I’ve been thinking about recently is just how tired I am all the time. My wife used to comment on it a lot. I thought that it wasn’t that bad and was because I couldn’t really sleep all that well. [/quote]

There are numerous things that effect testosterone levels, being over weight is a significant factor. Increased body fat level lead to higher levels of aromatase. This will have a two pronged effect - lower testosterone via aromatisation to estrogen and estrogen’s negative feedback on the HPTA. Reducing body fat to normal levels can dramatically increase testosterone. It is though important to do this with a nutritionally sound diet that is not too low in calories - this in itself will increase stress and cortisol and decrease testosterone production

18

[quote]Cymru wrote:
There are numerous things that effect testosterone levels, being over weight is a significant factor. Increased body fat level lead to higher levels of aromatase. This will have a two pronged effect - lower testosterone via aromatisation to estrogen and estrogen’s negative feedback on the HPTA. Reducing body fat to normal levels can dramatically increase testosterone. It is though important to do this with a nutritionally sound diet that is not too low in calories - this in itself will increase stress and cortisol and decrease testosterone production[/quote]

How much would being over weight effect my T levels. I was probably 130 lbs overweight last year and for the past year, I’ve shed 80 lbs. I would think that if this were the case that my T levels would have risen by now.

I’m got my blood tested - the results should be back soon. Would I be able to tell that weight was the problem from the blood test? I’m getting my T level checked again, prolactin, FSH, LH checked. I asked about Estradiol, but the doctor kind of scoffed at the need for that.

19

If weight is the problem then you should see a difference, 50lbs overweight would still make you “obese” though and be more than enough to lower testosterone especially if held around the abdominal area.

20

[quote]Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Cymru wrote:
There are numerous things that effect testosterone levels, being over weight is a significant factor. Increased body fat level lead to higher levels of aromatase. This will have a two pronged effect - lower testosterone via aromatisation to estrogen and estrogen’s negative feedback on the HPTA. Reducing body fat to normal levels can dramatically increase testosterone. It is though important to do this with a nutritionally sound diet that is not too low in calories - this in itself will increase stress and cortisol and decrease testosterone production[/quote]

How much would being over weight effect my T levels. I was probably 130 lbs overweight last year and for the past year, I’ve shed 80 lbs. I would think that if this were the case that my T levels would have risen by now.

I’m got my blood tested - the results should be back soon. Would I be able to tell that weight was the problem from the blood test? I’m getting my T level checked again, prolactin, FSH, LH checked. I asked about Estradiol, but the doctor kind of scoffed at the need for that.

[/quote]

I may be an ananomly, but I didn’t start having T problems until I lost weight. I was going along, seemingly fine. I dropped 110# and within 2 - 3 months I was visiting the doc and getting bloodwork.
While I have no doubt that excessive weight can have a negative impact on T levels, rapid/significant weight loss CAN also affect you. Not necessarily your T levels, but that is one manner in which I was affected.