An Apology From A Bush Voter

Wow, it’s a war of talking points. All the Bush supporters are spouting FOX news bullet points.

Clinton this and Clinton that. Get over Clinton, he’s no longer in office or running for office.

PGJ, you need to do some more thinking to dig underneath the talking points your are spouting. I’m singling you out because you are fairly new in these parts…

There’s still a chance you can decide to think for yourself and see both sides of ALL the issues. You can’t go through life thinking have the US populace is idiots and you’ve got everything figured out correctly, can you?

For example, taking solace in the raw number of votes Bush got is pretty silly, given how close both of his elections were. You have to admit the country was and probably still is pretty well split down the middle.

Pretending it isn’t is just self delusion… and why would you need to do that?

[quote]PGJ wrote:
A
There’s nothing harder in public life than admitting you’re wrong. By the way, admitting you’re wrong can be even tougher in private life. If you don’t believe me, just ask Bill Clinton or Charlie Sheen.

Are you serious??? When did Clinton admit he was wrong? “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”. That was his sworn testimony to a grand jury. He was sorry he got caught, that’s all. He’s a freakin’ felon and should be in jail. And don’t give me “Bush used illegal wiretaps” weak-assed shit. Show me a law that says surveilance of suspected criminals is illegal. I believe that once the pussy liberal democrats loose another election in 08 we will truly see the wisdom of his leadership. Too much absolute hatred misdirected at the man.

And if you are blaming gas prices on the President then you are petty and stupid. Did you see the interview with the Exxon executive who said gas is expensive because the market will bear it and that Exxon has investors to look out for? Basically, he’s saying gas is so expensive bacause dumb-asses like us will pay for it. And don’t give me the whole Iraq thing. I’m active duty military and support the President. We all volunteered to do what we are doing.

You can’t support the troops without supporting the mission and the President. Going to war for natural resources is perfectly legitimate (which wasn’t even the primary concern). Your ass is sitting at home warm and comfortable and safe because of the President. You don’t have to like everything he does. If you knew anything about leadership, you’d know that sometimes a leader has to make tough decisions that are unpopular. You will never go far in life if you are a man-pleaser.
[/quote]

You’re right.

Lying about wmd. Invading another country under false pretences. Having tenthousand of people killed. Wrecking the economy in the process.

All this pales in comparison with cheating on your wife and lying about it.

Thanks for opening my eyes.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Have we been attacked since 9/11? No!

Has Bush tried his best to protect us from foreign terrorists no matter where they are? Yes!
…[/quote]

It’s just a pitty that his best is so bad.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Here’s some scarry thoughts:

What would Gore do?

What would Kerry do?

What would Hillary do?

What would Kennedy do?

What would Dean do?

Get impeached (with the exception of Dean) by a GOP controlled congress and senate.

Are you implying that Clinton’s impeachment for blatantly lying before a federal grand jury was a big GOP political move? MOST people go straight to jail for that.

[/quote]

For cheating on their wife and lying about it? Damn, you guys ARE pretty strict.

No wonder you have more people in prison than in school.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Here’s some scarry thoughts:

What would Gore do?

What would Kerry do?

What would Hillary do?

What would Kennedy do?

What would Dean do?

[/quote]

They’d try to appease the evil sons of bitches, like Clinton did with that shiteater in North Korea.

All this shit is due to Clinton. He didn’t stand up to terror, so we all pay the price.

God bless our president George W. Bush! I wish he was more conservative, but he’s a good man and I’ll stand by him.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Here’s some scarry thoughts:

What would Gore do?

What would Kerry do?

What would Hillary do?

What would Kennedy do?

What would Dean do?

Not start a war for no reason whatsoever?

Not run up defecits that our grandchildren would be paying for?

Not appoint unqualified cronies to every postition they could?

Read at a fifth grade level?

Not start a war for no reason whatsoever? I guess we never got attacked and Saddam complied fully with international UN sanctions. He was just misunderstood.

Not run up defecits that our grandchildren would be paying for? To pay for your liberal social well-fare programs so fat, lazy Americans can do nothing and feed off the system their ENTIRE LIVES for free and give nothing back.

Not appoint unqualified cronies to every postition they could? Who is unqualified in your opinion? I guess the President should appoint people he doesn’t like to a few positions. Hillary would definately be unbiased.

Read at a fifth grade level? You need to read the biographies of the President and his cabinet. All of them are VERY educated and have held other positions of great responsibility.

I recommend you quit using moveon.org and CNN as your sole source of information.
[/quote]

I haven’t read the rest of this thread, but I predict Harris will soon begin swearing at you, calling you names, and so forth. He then considers that an argument and that he won.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
They’d try to appease the evil sons of bitches, like Clinton did with that shiteater in North Korea.

All this shit is due to Clinton. He didn’t stand up to terror, so we all pay the price.

God bless our president George W. Bush! I wish he was more conservative, but he’s a good man and I’ll stand by him.
[/quote]

Is it even possible for you to pull your head out of your ass every once in a while? Hmm, maybe that’s what HeadHunter means?

Anyway, prior to 9/11 the public will was not in place to support widescale invasions of countries around the globe, at least not without trumping up false intelligence.

Oh wait, I think I’m beginning to see your point…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Here’s some scarry thoughts:

What would Gore do?

What would Kerry do?

What would Hillary do?

What would Kennedy do?

What would Dean do?

Not start a war for no reason whatsoever?

Not run up defecits that our grandchildren would be paying for?

Not appoint unqualified cronies to every postition they could?

Read at a fifth grade level?

Not start a war for no reason whatsoever? I guess we never got attacked and Saddam complied fully with international UN sanctions. He was just misunderstood.

Not run up defecits that our grandchildren would be paying for? To pay for your liberal social well-fare programs so fat, lazy Americans can do nothing and feed off the system their ENTIRE LIVES for free and give nothing back.

Not appoint unqualified cronies to every postition they could? Who is unqualified in your opinion? I guess the President should appoint people he doesn’t like to a few positions. Hillary would definately be unbiased.

Read at a fifth grade level? You need to read the biographies of the President and his cabinet. All of them are VERY educated and have held other positions of great responsibility.

I recommend you quit using moveon.org and CNN as your sole source of information.

I haven’t read the rest of this thread, but I predict Harris will soon begin swearing at you, calling you names, and so forth. He then considers that an argument and that he won.

[/quote]

No, I’m gonna quote from the one book I’ve read and pretend that it applies to everything in the world. Then, I’m gonna claim HIV has nothing to do with AIDS. Then I’m gonna blame everything–including the weather–on Clinton.

Oh, wait: that’s you.

This is boring. Have a good weekend everyone.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
This is boring. Have a good weekend everyone. [/quote]

Lightweight! :wink:

[quote]vroom wrote:
PGJ wrote:
This is boring. Have a good weekend everyone.

Lightweight! ;)[/quote]

You guys crack me up! It’s late and I’m tired. I have to mow my one-acre lawn tomorrow and coach my son’s baseball game. Need rest. See you on Monday. New topics.

[quote]NorskGoddess wrote:
I love this thread this morning!

It seems that all the libs are sleeping in this morning? God bless the early bird conservatives. :wink:


As far as the “romanticizing” of Reagan is concerned: Its called legacy. Time creates legends from men who have left their mark on history. Lincoln in the mid-1850’s was considered an oddball radical, FDR was a polio-stricken womanizing warmonger… but history has served them well. I find nothing wrong with hoping for a leader who can bring patriotism and unabashed American pride back into the executive branch. [/quote]

Very well said!

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Irish

Not much of a cut and paste guy so I’ll do my best to respond to your drivel from memory.

First off the poster you responded too said Saddam didn’t comply with impose U.N. sanctions. This is very true. Your reponse–a typical rambling about ties to AQ-- was off topic and not toally true. We do know that Iraq was a training station and we know several of the hijackers met and passed through at times. At least stick with the WMD defense, it’s mostly accurate.

It shows your complete lack of common sense to say ‘this is not a smart man.’
It makes ytou look childish and less than intelligent yourself. Is he the smartest man, no, but he is far from stupid.

The 'Brownie" thing is over hyped. Maybe he put a cronie in a cush job–oh the horror. But it was not his fault or any ONE persons fault with reg. to Katrina and the failure of FEMA. Please, by nopw we all know how many parties were responsible for the failure. To try and tie this to Bush and this selection is simply ridiculous.

Everyone–except maybe you–knew tha Harriet M. was a throw in candidate. She was put into that position because everyone knew that the dems would not pass 2 justices along in a row. No way. No how. Roberts was too good, they had to let him through, but noway would they let Bush have 2 positive choices in a row. Theow her in, take the heat, let the dems have their way. Then throw in the guy he wanted all along.

Your continual lefty talking points repeated nonsense makes no points. It just shows that you believe as much garbage as you claim all the followers believe. Do I think Bush has done a great job–no. Good–yes given the circumstances. Do I think it’s time for a change, yes I do. Will I vote for Hillary–not a chance. You guys better find someone to run or you’ll have to bring up all this same shit for the next 6-10 years.

By the way–making assumption about someone you’ve never met…how did you put that to the other poster. Sounds like you should take your own advice. If all we could do was have opinions about those we’ve met, what the hell would we do all day long on this site. Talk training![/quote]

Excellent post! Excellent points!

[quote]harris447 wrote:

No, I’m gonna quote from the one book I’ve read and pretend that it applies to everything in the world. Then, I’m gonna claim HIV has nothing to do with AIDS. Then I’m gonna blame everything–including the weather–on Clinton.

Oh, wait: that’s you.

[/quote]

Dammit, Harris, that was one of the best replies I’ve ever heard from you! I’m not flaming, I really and truly liked it. I know I do come across as you said (sometimes) and it made me chuckle. Thank you!

This will sound like a flame but its really a compliment: You come across as the jackass in Orwell’s Animal Farm, who was always skeptical of everything. Or was he a horse? Shit, I don’t remember. Was he a mule? Damn, gotta look it up!

To address a point that was raised earlier.

Yes Bush won by the greatest number of votes ever cast for an incumbent. Those are just raw numbers. If looked at in terms of percentages, it was only a 3% margin, the narrowest margin ever (hell even Truman who was totally written off won by 5%). Bush won because the Democrats (Bless their leftist instincts) abandoned the middle of the political spectrum. That is where most of the American voting public lives.

It afforded the Religious Right the opportunity have their numbers count. But I suspect that if Bush had truly been more in line with the traditional Republican Philosophy, the margin would have been much greater.

At the convention before the last election, Bush trotted out all the moderates of the party (Guiliani, Pataki, Schwartzenegger) and got an immediate 11 point bounce. That part of the party resonates with the moderate voter.

I believe in a smaller government, fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets), keeping taxes down and staying out of peoples private lives. These are the traditional values of the Republican Party. These resonate with the moderate voter which happens to be a rather large pool of voters.

Bush believes in none of these and he scares the hell out of me.

[quote]Charlie wrote:
I believe in a smaller government, fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets), keeping taxes down and staying out of peoples private lives. These are the traditional values of the Republican Party. These resonate with the moderate voter which happens to be a rather large pool of voters.

Bush believes in none of these and he scares the hell out of me. [/quote]

First of all, great post Charlie. Very good points.

I’m a Social-Democrat – hence, to the left of center, and I usually vote Democrat (though I’m not affiliated) – but I’ve said multiple times that I would be perfectly comfortable with a government that truly stood by those traditional beliefs (smaller government, fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets), keeping taxes down and staying out of peoples private lives) – in fact, I’d be more comfortable with such a government than with a far left government, precisely because I know it would be a government that would keep the overwhelming majority of Americans happy, and that is the best indicator of a Good Government and a successful Democracy.

I hold Ike as the prime example of a Republican President I very much admire and respect – and as a representation of the values you describe. Even though he could have done more than he did to end segregation and get rid of McCarthy faster, I can understand that a more aggressive stance in those issues could have actually been counterproductive at the time, so I respect his cautionary approach.

Unfortunately, the influence of the Texas GOP – which, clearly, holds beliefs that are much further to the right than the ones you defend – is tremendous in the RNC… So I wonder if we’ll ever see another Dwight Eisenhower ever get elected by them.

[quote]hspder wrote:
Charlie wrote:
I believe in a smaller government, fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets), keeping taxes down and staying out of peoples private lives. These are the traditional values of the Republican Party. These resonate with the moderate voter which happens to be a rather large pool of voters.

Bush believes in none of these and he scares the hell out of me.

First of all, great post Charlie. Very good points.

I’m a Social-Democrat – hence, to the left of center, and I usually vote Democrat (though I’m not affiliated) – but I’ve said multiple times that I would be perfectly comfortable with a government that truly stood by those traditional beliefs (smaller government, fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets), keeping taxes down and staying out of peoples private lives) – in fact, I’d be more comfortable with such a government than with a far left government, precisely because I know it would be a government that would keep the overwhelming majority of Americans happy, and that is the best indicator of a Good Government and a successful Democracy.

I hold Ike as the prime example of a Republican President I very much admire and respect – and as a representation of the values you describe. Even though he could have done more than he did to end segregation and get rid of McCarthy faster, I can understand that a more aggressive stance in those issues could have actually been counterproductive at the time, so I respect his cautionary approach.

Unfortunately, the influence of the Texas GOP – which, clearly, holds beliefs that are much further to the right than the ones you defend – is tremendous in the RNC… So I wonder if we’ll ever see another Dwight Eisenhower ever get elected by them.
[/quote]

Will the American economy/lifestyle/ideal ever again resemble the 1950’s?

[quote]Charlie wrote:
To address a point that was raised earlier.

Yes Bush won by the greatest number of votes ever cast for an incumbent. Those are just raw numbers. If looked at in terms of percentages, it was only a 3% margin, the narrowest margin ever (hell even Truman who was totally written off won by 5%). Bush won because the Democrats (Bless their leftist instincts) abandoned the middle of the political spectrum. That is where most of the American voting public lives.

It afforded the Religious Right the opportunity have their numbers count. But I suspect that if Bush had truly been more in line with the traditional Republican Philosophy, the margin would have been much greater.[/quote]

This was an extremely good post up until this point. But I don’t see how the next point fits.

[quote]Charlie wrote:
At the convention before the last election, Bush trotted out all the moderates of the party (Guiliani, Pataki, Schwartzenegger) and got an immediate 11 point bounce. That part of the party resonates with the moderate voter. [/quote]

These guys are moderates who represent smaller government? Schwarzenegger was, but since his ill-conceived ballot initiatives he has retreated a lot from his fiscal conservatism, which leaves him as neither fiscally nor socially conservative. Pataki hasn’t ever been a fiscal conservative that I can recall. Perhaps Giuliani was as compared to his predecessor and successor in the mayor’s office, but given that comparison it’s no slam dunk, and I don’t recall him forcefully taking a position on fiscal issues – he’s a law-and-order conservative, with a liberal view of other social issues.

What Bush did was trot out Schwarzenegger and Giuliani, who are popular for individual reasons (I don’t think Pataki was part of the equation) nationally. It also gave the Republicans more of a “big tent” look in terms of social issues, precisely because they are more liberal on social issues.

Did anyone get on the stage advocating cutting pork or non-defense government expenditures? Maybe I missed that part.

[quote]Charlie wrote:
I believe in a smaller government, fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets), keeping taxes down and staying out of peoples private lives. These are the traditional values of the Republican Party. These resonate with the moderate voter which happens to be a rather large pool of voters.

Bush believes in none of these and he scares the hell out of me. [/quote]

I agree with most of this, though a few nits. I don’t think you can argue that Bush hasn’t been for keeping taxes down, even if you are of the opinion it’s not sustainable – the spending side of the equation is the problem.

Secondly, the Republican party hasn’t necessarily been for keeping the government out of people’s private lives – that’s a traditional dividing line in the party actually, with the libertarian-leaning Republicans differing from the social-conservatives on many issues – say, for instance, drug laws.

Where I think Bush II had truly screwed the pooch, as they say, is in growing government and giving in to increased government spending in order to buy votes as a “compassionate conservative.” Apparently compassionate means spendthrift.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Will the American economy/lifestyle/ideal ever again resemble the 1950’s?[/quote]

By “resemble” I guess you mean the 50s minus McCarthy and Segregation?

I don’t know. Maybe. “Ever” is a long, long time… :slight_smile:

[quote]hspder wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Will the American economy/lifestyle/ideal ever again resemble the 1950’s?

By “resemble” I guess you mean the 50s minus McCarthy and Segregation?

I don’t know. Maybe. “Ever” is a long, long time… :slight_smile:

[/quote]

I meant the times and culture and attitude. I think you knew that, but wanted to reply like an ass just for the fun of it. It was merely a whimsical question as to your comparison of Ike and his way of doing things and if those would be applicable in these times.