I remember reading books in the past that describe competition of uptake amongst certain amino acids, similar to nutrient interactions like calcium and zinc. There seem to be tons of info on mineral and vitamin interactions (ex. Zinc | Linus Pauling Institute | Oregon State University ) however I can’t find a good online source for amino acids. If you have one then please let me know. Thanks.
Also, is this even a concern? Thanks.
[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Also, is this even a concern? Thanks.[/quote]
If you found information saying some amino acids interfered with the absorption of others, how would you change your diet around to aid absorption? This seems like a topic which, even if true, can’t really be implemented unless one is manufacturing a product.
I wouldn’t change my diet whatsoever; I would potentially change the timing of when I take certain things. Well I have plenty of individual amino acids in free form lying around like Acetyl L-Carnitine, Beta-Alanine, Citrulline Malate, Arginine, L-Tyrosine, among others. I often buy things other than just Biotest stuff 
It would be great to know for example if L-Tyrosine can be taken with protein or if it should be taken on an empty stomach. In this case, this information would be helpful. Why would manufacturing a product be the only application of this information?
Was only thinking about amino acids affects on tissue, completely forgot about neurological aspects (My bad there). So I guess that automatically faults my manufacturing claim.
To compensate for my previous stupidity, I would think that Beta-Alanine/Citrulline are okay with proteins, as they are both in Anaconda, and I have felt both working (Tingly from BA, increased SWF-like capacity from presumably, the CM). Yet I remember someone in another thread asked why the Tyrosine in Power Drive affected him more than the almost equal level in his whey, and I believe BBB answered that some amino acids competed for absorption (I forget the thread name, apologies).
So maybe neurological uptake has competition and muscular tissue is less discriminatory?
The tyrosine-in-Power Drive vs listed-tyrosine-content-in-whey question is actually a matter of the tyrosine being the free amino acid in the first case, and incorporated into protein chains in the second case. Much of this will not ever yield free tyrosine in the bloodstream, but rather di- and tri-peptides that include tyrosine. I suppose all of it, besides that which is burned in the liver, probably eventually is released as tyrosine but that would be a slow process rather than something providing a prompt surge in levels.
So it is not the same thing.
On BT’s question, I don’t believe this is something that one needs to worry about.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The tyrosine-in-Power Drive vs listed-tyrosine-content-in-whey question is actually a matter of the tyrosine being the free amino acid in the first case, and incorporated into protein chains in the second case. Much of this will not ever yield free tyrosine in the bloodstream, but rather di- and tri-peptides that include tyrosine. I suppose all of it, besides that which is burned in the liver, probably eventually is released as tyrosine but that would be a slow process rather than something providing a prompt surge in levels.
So it is not the same thing.
On BT’s question, I don’t believe this is something that one needs to worry about.[/quote]
Makes sense, thanks for the clarification
[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
It would be great to know for example if L-Tyrosine can be taken with protein or if it should be taken on an empty stomach. [/quote]
Tyrosine works better when taken on an empty stomach IMO. Conventional wisdom (which is what I’m merely repeating here) is that some amino acids can have drug-like effects if they are taken in isolation. There may be some amino acids that don’t compete with each other and some that do - I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t be surprised if different amino combinations need to be considered on an individual basis. Also, there may be forms of aminos that are exceptions (beta alanine for example). In general, if looking for specific drug-like effects (from Tyrosine for example) it’s prudent to take aminos in isolation when possible, because aminos ‘can’ compete for uptake and it’s not that hard to find time when you have an empty stomach. Do all aminos compete for the same receptors, in all instances? Somebody smarter than me would need to answer that.
@ all that responded: Thanks for the replies. They all help to a degree but only reaffirm what I already know. I should have been more specific with my original question. What I’m really interested in is the last part (I bolded) from K2000’s quote below (Do all aminos compete for the same receptors, in all instances?):
[quote]K2000 wrote:
Tyrosine works better when taken on an empty stomach IMO. Conventional wisdom (which is what I’m merely repeating here) is that some amino acids can have drug-like effects if they are taken in isolation. There may be some amino acids that don’t compete with each other and some that do - I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t be surprised if different amino combinations need to be considered on an individual basis. Also, there may be forms of aminos that are exceptions (beta alanine for example). In general, if looking for specific drug-like effects (from Tyrosine for example) it’s prudent to take aminos in isolation when possible, because aminos ‘can’ compete for uptake and it’s not that hard to find time when you have an empty stomach. Do all aminos compete for the same receptors, in all instances? Somebody smarter than me would need to answer that.
[/quote]
There are a number of different amino acid transporters, such as neutral amino acid transporters, cationic amino acid transports, aromatic amino acid transporters, and specific ones such as the glutamate transporter. I really am not versed on them.
But generally speaking, chemically similar amino acids tend to use the same transporters, except where a transporter is very specific which usually isn’t the case. And the body is adapted to typically getting all the amino acids at the same time.
Really I think the only place where you’d run into an issue of being inefficient would be if trying something like wanting to take leucine (say 5 g) AND have another 20 or 25 g of mixed BCAA’s at the same time (which do compete for the same transporter) and perhaps also be receiving plenty of protein in general for example from a good serving of whey protein, not necessarily at exactly the same time but within the previous hour or two. This might be demanding too much, so if your purpose for example was spiking leucine, the mixed BCAA’s would be better taken at another time if at all.
Cool. Thanks. I guess my question is answered in that there doesn’t seem to be a need to have any super precise timing regimen unless in the type of case you pointed out, but in that case BCAA and Leucine have a pretty similar effect anyway (although I guess in this example, and from what I know, it would be beneficial to take just Leucine).
I guess I need to study more about other transporters like for L-tyrosine, Acetyl L-carnitine, etc, and I would need to see if in this situation would protein (or some other group of aminos, interfere with the abosorption and potential PHARMACEUTICAL LIKE EFFECT. Would the same exact effect would be attained by taking them with food as with taking them on an empty stomach?
If there were many hours between meals, then I expect that if a difference due to amount of other amino acids entering the bloodstream was ever a factor, then food taken say 2 hours or more PRIOR to the amino acid dosing might make a difference.
Food taken at the very same time would probably make relatively little difference because due to time needed to digest that protein, most of the amino acids from it would probably be absorbed after the spike in the single amino acid, as a guess.
Oh, there is another case where a person could have practical concern with this: If there’s an intent to try to deliver a pulse of tryptophan to the brain, it is known that other large neutral amino acids compete with it for transport.
Great info Bill. I must ask what affect a pulse of tryptophan would have on the brain? Is that for some condition or for performance?
I don’t think there IS really a value to pulsing tryptophan to the brain, though there is value in getting enough tryptophan to the brain, as it’s required to make serotonin.
Actually what I ought to do is see if there are foods that are substantially low in tryptophan to see if people getting much of their protein from these, and little from foods rich in trytophan, could wind up short for this reason rather than an ordinary good diet leading to a serotonin problem.
Anyway, some find that taking tryptophan aids sleep. This makes sense only if the brain is low in tryptophan at the time of taking it: if not, then their probably is no point to it. Though a single case means nothing, I never got anything out of tryptophan for sleep, even though producing enough serotonin for sleep is apparently an issue in my case, as TMG does help, and its only value with regard to sleep is aiding serotonin production by a different mechanism (serving as a methyl donor.)
Just to clarify (can’t edit as post hasn’t appeared yet):
I should have said, I suspect there isn’t a value to pulsing tryptophan to the brain in cases where a good ratio and amount of tryptophan is being taken in overall.
And later on where I said “enough tryptophan,” I meant relative to other large neutral amino acids.