[quote]Professor X wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
Yes. If currently illegal drugs were to become readily available over the counter like alcohol, there would still be the same people that have excessive personalities getting fucked up on them and doing stupid shit.
Well, if that’s the case, what’s the problem?
In reality, I am not for complete deregulation of all drugs. I am for putting the power back into the hands of the physician without so much government influence (read that as pop media influence and control of social standards). It should not be some soccer mom’s decision as far as whether it is ok for Patient A who is 35 years old to use hormones simply because he wants to look better. It also shouldn’t be the decision of Congress and shouldn’t be the soap box for which elections are won. Unfortunately, that is exactly how this is playing out…“for the children”.
The reason alcohol has more fatalities and all the other crap Prof X posted is because there is just more of it out there and it is much easier to get your hands on it. It’s just a numbers game. I’ve heard many a bodybuilder tout this crap and it got old very quickly.
Yawn.
If that is the case, why do countries without such strict regulations and age requirements for alcohol survive without so much death surrounding the use? Youth rebel. We all did. If it weren’t so taboo to discuss issues without constantly talking about “the children”, and if policies reflected this, there would be less to rebel against. Wouldn’t that decrease the allure?[/quote]
It is sad that so many issues in this country are overblown because that controversy only leads people to wanting to try these stupid things(drugs, alcohol, rape). In the end I think that the issue of personal responsibility will be tackled but it might take a few decades before someone is brave enough to tackle it…because people refuse to become responsible for their mistakes.
I myself was raised to act in a responsible manner only to grow up and see everyone around me slacking off and start riding the governments coattails even my own family.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Well, if that’s the case, what’s the problem?
In reality, I am not for complete deregulation of all drugs. I am for putting the power back into the hands of the physician without so much government influence (read that as pop media influence and control of social standards). It should not be some soccer mom’s decision as far as whether it is ok for Patient A who is 35 years old to use hormones simply because he wants to look better. It also shouldn’t be the decision of Congress and shouldn’t be the soap box for which elections are won. Unfortunately, that is exactly how this is playing out…“for the children”.
[/quote]
The problem is that if we allow things like Pot and AAS to be legalized there will be those that abuse and they will be in greater numbers as it will be easier to get your hands on. Hospital beds are full enough with alcohol and smoking related illnesses. Why add to the increasing number of ways the public can degenerate their own health. We’ve got enough today.
They probably don’t record their death tolls as accurately. LOL. Which countries are we talking about here BTW?
When I was young I didn’t hit the drink or smoke pot to rebel against anything. I did it because it was fun. I can understand your point but I’m not sure it’s the way to go at this time.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Yes, it is misleading use of statistics. Regulation of drugs should be based on their true effects not hype.
Steroids aren’t terrible but kids should not be using them.
They should be regulated in such a way that an adult can make a decision to use or not use them.
I am not sure if they should be available OTC for anyone over 21 or if we should encourage doctors to prescribe them and monitor the side effects.
Either way our current policies suck.
[/quote]
Decent comments there Big Z.
The only problem I have with steroids being regulated is that there is way too much information for the average person to digest on the issue.
For a start. Regular Bloodwork is a must and the individual must be very disciplined to use correct dosages, self administer the anti E’s which is too much for the average joe. The average T-Nation member is not the average Joe so using people on this site is not a good sample of the Yankee population.
I also don’t like the fact that there are guys who have done zero work in the gym or on the track since college who sign up for HRT. Surely they’d be better off getting into the gym, eating well and getting into some supplements before going through HRT.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
So you’re away for almost six months and what draws you back to a bodybuilding website after a mysterious exit is a need to rant about alcohol? Call me confused.
Well, Mr. Spackler, I would say you are very much confused if you thought this was a rant against alcohol.
I am very worried if I have to start using those big assed Magic Markers and hand puppets to get a point across.
I am thrilled that THE X is back!
Furthermore, I resolve to not argue with his wisdom. I will simply read and learn.
Word.
HH
This is no fun if you don’t argue.
See, no name calling…this time.
[/quote]
well, shit, i actually agree with the original post, but any thing for you sugar: your fucking wrong, asshole! oh, and you smell.
the VAST majority of people who end up in the emergency rooms and trauma ICU’s that i work, alcohol is a major factor.
last night for instance, every major to minor injury alcohol was the cause.
from all the assaults, the college kids coming in vomiting, pissing and shitting themselves with blood alcohol levels of 200-400, the minor shit, like the guy who damn near chops his finger off cutting meet while drunk, to the major trauma-team activation of the guy who takes a face dive off the second story his apartment building, and ALL the motor vehicle crashes, booze was involved.
that was JUST last night.
now, over 13 years, how many people have i seen ill or injured secondary to steroids?
NONE.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Exactly how many people have you ever heard of “getting fucked up” on steroids?
[/quote]
Well from my time working in gyms. My training parnter had to get his bitch tits cut out from a cycle that went wrong. One guy had hypertrophy of the heart and a good mate became infertile. So there’s 3 off the top of my head in a small gym. Maybe not fucked up to the letter but hypertrophy of the heart can be a dangerous procedure to fix and being infertile is a tough thing to deal with for a guy wanting kids.
Yeah we all know that. But there are side effects. You can’t deny that. Some people get sides from the smallest of doses and most people who have used AAS, myself included, regret it in some way later in life. Most people that I see in the gym who get on the gear are guys that have many years of natural growing to do but are too impatient and undisciplined to do so. Do they deserve to use AAS? Fuck no.
Actually I am not going to come back with those things. I’m glad you can jump to every conclusion about me and my experience with AAS. This is the very reason deregulation of AAS is such a touchy issue with bodybuilders. We get the above style responses.
I see recreational drugs in use every day as a bouncer. Other than weed, I’ve never done them and never will.
The media does beat it up which is true. I can’t deny it. Perhaps the AAS was just part of the fucked up cocktail that sent his life into the state it got to. It wouldn’t be the major reason but it probably played some minor part. So the media shouldn’t have blamed that as the #1 problem.
As I said before. Alcohol has higher stats because it is easy to get your hands on it. Kids can generally go into their parents kitchen cupboard or fridge and get pissed if they want to do so. They’ll find it harder to get a few grams of weed and even harder to get some deca.
I get what he’s saying and I’m just putting my point forward. Alcohol has more problems associated because there is more of it out there. If you look into it deep enough, fast food would kill more Americans than drugs. Should we ban that too?
What astounds me is how passionate people such as yourself are about this. But then again, go to any weed forum and they are saying that should be legalized. I think it’s hard for people to be objective about something if they are heavily one sided.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
on a more serious note,
the VAST majority of people who end up in the emergency rooms and trauma ICU’s that i work, alcohol is a major factor.
last night for instance, every major to minor injury alcohol was the cause.
from all the assaults, the college kids coming in vomiting, pissing and shitting themselves with blood alcohol levels of 200-400, the minor shit, like the guy who damn near chops his finger off cutting meet while drunk, to the major trauma-team activation of the guy who takes a face dive off the second story his apartment building, and ALL the motor vehicle crashes, booze was involved.
that was JUST last night.
now, over 13 years, how many people have i seen ill or injured secondary to steroids?
NONE.
[/quote]
And most cops will tell you the same. The percentage of AAS users in the population would have to be very minute. And the problems associated with are not going to be as sudden as alcohol, speed, E’s, cocaine and so on.
It’s not worth arguing against on this forum because the majority of the people here are going to be pro AAS deregulation and it’s a losing battle. The rest of America is against it, so deal with it because that is the democracy we all love so much.
An ex boss of mine was a many time Mr Olympia competitor and obviously a long term AAS user. He did it well, with little sides other than shooting blanks.
His view was the Government liked alcohol and cigarettes because it killed off the population so pensions were not being paid out as long as they should be and they made great money on the tax.
His view was that AAS should have been legalized as it made him the “Strapping Stallion” he was at 50+ years of age.
We’ve all heard the argument and there is nobody more passionate than a user but they are the small part of the population that may have the discipline to do it right. He weighed every gram of his food and got it correct to the gram. Not many people posting on this board could display that sort of discipline.
If you are one of those one’s that are able to do things to the finest detail then Kudos. I’m sure with that sort of personality you have found a good source to get your gear and will be able to keep doing that relatively safely. We don’t need 35 year old gym rookies getting their hands on it because the natural way is better for them.
What I’m wondering is why haven’t any prominent figures started up a non profit organization with the intent to push legalization of AAS. Seriously, what the fuck is going on? Steroids have been illegal for 15 years and no one can get the fucking ball rolling?
[quote]De sleeplijn wrote:
Yeah we all know that. But there are side effects. You can’t deny that. Some people get sides from the smallest of doses and most people who have used AAS, myself included, regret it in some way later in life. Most people that I see in the gym who get on the gear are guys that have many years of natural growing to do but are too impatient and undisciplined to do so. Do they deserve to use AAS? Fuck no.[/quote]
So now you’re the authority on who should be able to use AAS? No one has to “earn the right” or “deserves” to use AAS.
[quote]De sleeplijn wrote:
As I said before. Alcohol has higher stats because it is easy to get your hands on it. Kids can generally go into their parents kitchen cupboard or fridge and get pissed if they want to do so. They’ll find it harder to get a few grams of weed and even harder to get some deca.[/quote]
I guarantee you that it’s much, much easier for youth to get their hands on marijuana than alcohol.
You have no idea how easy it is to get weed do you? Most people I know who have done much, started with weed. Stores ID and even the stores to sell to minors will not sell to some preadolescent kid. You really have no idea what you are talking about.
From what I recall, steroids were not even around when our country was founded. And furthermore, it is not like illegal drugs were always illegal. They first had to be outlawed, and you must have some kind of government to outlaw.
So taking personal responsibility for one’s actions is crap?
Good thing there is Big Brother.
Plenty of people in this world are too weak to take personal responsibility for their actions. Fast food is killing many people yet McDonalds and KFC are full every time I drive past. People know what they should be doing, but they are not. So why would you ever think about legalizing things that can be very harmful if abused.
[/quote]
Using that logic, why would we leave things as legal when they can be abused?
You blame McDonald’s for why people are obese and may have heart attacks if they eat all day long and never exercise? Shouldn’t that responsibility ride on the backs of the obese people?
a point that no one has considered yet is the fact that many people view steroids as cheating. I mean look at baseball, when it was founded no one took steroids, Hell, I bet the first time steroids even came into baseball was probably in the 60s or 70s (I don’t know the era steroids began being used by people).
Honestly, is there anything wrong with taking something that helps you gain muscle? No. But, I believe there is something wrong with taking it if you are a professional athlete. It’s cheating. Kids look up to people like Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, etc. What kind of message is being sent to them right now amidst all the scandal and allegations? Not to try your hardest and you can make it to the bigs one day, but instead just inject yourself with illegal drugs and that is your ticket to glory.
In my opinion professional sports has a lot to do with steroids being illegal. That, and the fact that 90% of americans are dumb and will do shit like inject the steroids into their penis or eye, or something absurd like that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
rainjack wrote:
So taking personal responsibility for one’s actions is crap?
Good thing there is Big Brother.
Plenty of people in this world are too weak to take personal responsibility for their actions. Fast food is killing many people yet McDonalds and KFC are full every time I drive past. People know what they should be doing, but they are not. So why would you ever think about legalizing things that can be very harmful if abused.
Using that logic, why would we leave things as legal when they can be abused?
You blame McDonald’s for why people are obese and may have heart attacks if eat all day long and never exercise? Shouldn’t that responsibility ride on the backs of the obese people?[/quote]
It should, but we live in america, where people can sue comapnies like mcdonalds for making their coffee too hot.
[quote]De sleeplijn wrote:
The problem is that if we allow things like Pot and AAS to be legalized there will be those that abuse and they will be in greater numbers as it will be easier to get your hands on. Hospital beds are full enough with alcohol and smoking related illnesses. Why add to the increasing number of ways the public can degenerate their own health. We’ve got enough today.[/quote]
Has this society stopped cocaine use? Have they stopped people from smoking weed? There may be more people who use something if it is legal, however, in the case of weed (considering how harmless it is compared to nearly everything else we are discussing)how does that mean it is “abused” more? Shouldn’t the goal also be HONEST education of what these substances do? Perhaps if more money was spent towards that end instead of the massive amounts mindlessly thrown out to FAIL at stopping it, more people would understand the boundary between USE and ABUSE.
In the case of anabolic hormones, shouldn’t the goal be to put the power back into the hands of medical professionals so that the person is less likely to use blackmarket substances that could possibly be more harmful?
[quote]
They probably don’t record their death tolls as accurately. LOL. Which countries are we talking about here BTW?[/quote]
I would have to do research on it. I have read things in the past with regards to the UK but nothing recent that I could use directly here.
[quote]
When I was young I didn’t hit the drink or smoke pot to rebel against anything. I did it because it was fun. I can understand your point but I’m not sure it’s the way to go at this time. [/quote]
Well, I didn’t drink alcohol. My Dad let me drink a beer with him when I was real young and that pretty much put me off alcohol. Even today I only drink in social situations and I may nurse the same beer most of the night. The key point is, it was introduced to me early on so it was no longer taboo.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
So now you’re the authority on who should be able to use AAS? No one has to “earn the right” or “deserves” to use AAS.
[/quote]
No I’m not an authority but I’m better educated and experienced with it that your average Joe. Or average T-Nation member I would suggest.
I was just saying that alcohol is in every household. Weed is not.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Has this society stopped cocaine use? Have they stopped people from smoking weed? There may be more people who use something if it is legal, however, in the case of weed (considering how harmless it is compared to nearly everything else we are discussing)how does that mean it is “abused” more? Shouldn’t the goal also be HONEST education of what these substances do? Perhaps if more money was spent towards that end instead of the massive amounts mindlessly thrown out to FAIL at stopping it, more people would understand the boundary between USE and ABUSE.
[/quote]
Yes better education instead of scare tactics would be a smarter option. But it’s like most things the Government does, the scare tactics and keeping people stupid keeps the power in their hands. If you throw a blanket statement out there like steroids are bad and evil, the majority will believe it and will oppose those who are educated on the matter and win through sheer numbers. Democracy.
It’s a small portion of the population that use anabolic hormones. IF they want to live on the other side of the law, then deal with the counterfeits and consequences. I’ve said it a number of times, the average population is not ready to use AAS and if it was deregulated there would be more people taking the easy way out of hard work and risking their personal health to a degree.
Thanks. I was keen to see which countries you were stating. IF we were talking Mexico, then I’d be concerned with their record takings.
That’s smart parenting. The forbidden fruit does taste sweeter, but there are just people out there who will do things to excess no matter what is available to them or not. Booze, drugs, food, whatever. These are the people that will innevetably run into health problems in the future.
Using that logic, why would we leave things as legal when they can be abused?
You blame McDonald’s for why people are obese and may have heart attacks if they eat all day long and never exercise? Shouldn’t that responsibility ride on the backs of the obese people?[/quote]
Yeah it does but these things in moderation are okay. Like alcohol. I’ll have a beer with friends at a social occassion and I rarely drink to excess.
With AAS the smallest dose can cause health problems for people. That is fact. McDonalds, KFC, and Alcohol are great in moderation and can be a real treat. Not staples for the every day diet though.