That’s smart parenting. The forbidden fruit does taste sweeter, but there are just people out there who will do things to excess no matter what is available to them or not. Booze, drugs, food, whatever. These are the people that will innevetably run into health problems in the future.
[/quote]
So is it the government’s responsibility to intervene in what individuals choose to do with their health? Is it alright in your opinion for the vast majority of people who would use a substance responsibly to not be allowed to because the government, for some reason or another, feels the need to regulate the personal lives of people who are probably going to do harm to themselves, whether it is legal or not?
There has never been 1 direct death to AAS use. Yes, over time things like high blood pressure can take their toll if not taken care of properly.
If aas where solely doctor prescribed, no black market (this is nothing more then a dream) and doctors where allowed to perscribe for sporting/bbing purposes I feel there would be less abuse and very very few people having problems. This will a never happen though.
Alcohol is a very large problem. From my graduating class, 4 people ave died from alcohol related accidents.
My brother got an impaired driving last month. He got a 3 month suspension. One of my workout partners got caught with 2 vials of deca in his car (20ml @ 400mg/ml) and he got charged with having EIGHTY counts of AAS (.5ml = 1). Needless to say, who is more of a risk? At trust me, when its all said and done my buddy will get fucked.
Hey, I was introduced to alcohol early as well and it turned me off too. I’ve gotten shitfaced enough times over the years but never developed a need or craving for booze like so many people do. It seems that folks who abuse things are usually deprived of them first. Just like those abstinence programs where the kids begin fucking even earlier and with more ferocity then the average.
As far as regulations go, I think it’s a conflict of interest. We have a kind of extreme capitalism here, in my opinion. And the down part is not only that every damn thing is done for the money, but also that shit which doesn’t make $$$(or, heaven forbid, may have a chance at competing with something that’s already profitable) gets handled in the most idiotic ways possible.
It’s always been disappointing to me, for the lack of reaction in people when they read of some food industry pressuring the FDA or what have you. There are tons of similar examples. Nobody is even a bit outraged by a flagrant sex-affair between business and federal institutions that is capable of causing so much damage.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So is it the government’s responsibility to intervene in what individuals choose to do with their health? Is it alright in your opinion for the vast majority of people who would use a substance responsibly to not be allowed to because the government, for some reason or another, feels the need to regulate the personal lives of people who are probably going to do harm to themselves, whether it is legal or not?[/quote]
Yes it is right for the government to do that because the idiots that will do harm to themselves greatly outweigh the smarter ones who could use AAS and other substances correctly.
Is AAS regulation even a blip on the Government’s radar. I’d imagine it would be well down the list on the to do pile for US Government.
You are a vintage, veteran member of this board, yet you chose to vindicate me with your voluminous vitriol, verbalizing that I command a vacant vocabulary and lack valorousness. However, I have revolved your vice-filled vocalizations back onto you with vengeance, revealing your version of the truth to be a vacuous void of viciousness lacking vision or verisimilitude.
Others have joined the violent fray versus you, thus causing you to vacillate between targets, revealing that you are not the victor. Your petulant personality possesses a vast, pus-filled vagina, very vile, being plunged with every perpendicular penis imaginable.
Try an original thought. On second thought - if you think some dick wipe from Australia is quote-worthy, maybe you should put your mouth over the business end of a .12 gauge, and do us all a favor.
So taking personal responsibility for one’s actions is crap?
Good thing there is Big Brother.
Plenty of people in this world are too weak to take personal responsibility for their actions. Fast food is killing many people yet McDonalds and KFC are full every time I drive past. People know what they should be doing, but they are not. So why would you ever think about legalizing things that can be very harmful if abused.
[/quote]
Two words: Natural Selection.
You are living proof that the human gene pool is in dire need of a good culling.
Fast food kills no one. Choices kill. Learn to let people live with their choices. I damn sure don’t need people like you policing the choices I make.
[quote]De sleeplijn wrote:
Yes it is right for the government to do that because the idiots that will do harm to themselves greatly outweigh the smarter ones who could use AAS and other substances correctly.
[/quote]
I’ll never understand this train of thought. It’s just so shortsighted.
America’s love affair with alcohol(and the modern world’s) mainly stems with the fact that it’s cheap, legal, and socially acceptable. I mean, whenever someone mentions the dangers of alcohol, people seem to become so defensive. They always stress moderation, while at the same time vehemently opposing moderate use of illegal drugs that have less detrimental effects.
Take this hypothetical scenario:
A society exists where MDMA(ecstacy) is widely used and accepted.The drug has a long history of use throughout the ages, and its use is considered a right of passage. People use it sparingly and responsibly. It has a generally positive image in the public eye. People are aware that frequent overuse can mess a person up, but this is usually viewed as a rare occurrence. Its users(the majority of this society) defend their use of the drug and consider themselves the exception to those who fry their brains with frequent use. Harm reduction is stressed, and it is looked down upon to use the drug irresponsibly or in the wrong situations.
In contrast, the underground drug of alcohol is stigmatized and illegal. Agencies exist that circulate misconceptions of the drug into the public sphere. People are well versed on its addictive and toxic qualities, and even moderate use is looked down upon by mainstream society. There also exists a perception that the drug causes violent behavior and unrest, even in moderate quantities. Its use is limited to a small sector of society, deemed deviant and irresponsible by the mainstream.
This example may seem a bit silly, but it shows how the average person’s defense of alcohol(despite the facts Professor X posted) is entirely socially-conditioned. Most people who occasionally drink would consider themselves exceptions to alcoholics, who destroy their liver, brain, and bodies through abuse. You would be hard-pressed to find these same people defending moderate use of “illicit” drugs that are, in some cases, far more benign than alcohol.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think that personal responsibility should be the anthem sung across the country before we elect anyone else into office.[/quote]
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Two words: Natural Selection.
You are living proof that the human gene pool is in dire need of a good culling.
Fast food kills no one. Choices kill. Learn to let people live with their choices. I damn sure don’t need people like you policing the choices I make.
[/quote]
I’ve read your posts for a while and always gained a good chuckle. Read hard fuckstick, and read it well. I have said that people are the ones who make the poor choices and the public as a whole make pretty ordinary choices when it comes to their own personal health. I myself do not blame fast food, alcohol, cigarettes or any legal substance for people ending up in hostpital or a coffin. It’s their own life and they are making their own choices. I thought I made that clear but you’ve only read and interpreted what you wanted to.
The people policing the choices you make are the government and you are in the .000001% of the population who want AAS regulated. The other 99% couldn’t give a shit one way or the other and have bigger fish to fry with terrorism and real drug problems like E and Herroin. AAS is hardly a blip on the radar.
Just giving you a second dose. I do not blame fast food, alcohol, cigarettes or any legal substance for peoples ill health. It’s their own life and they are making their own choices.
Simplified: Eating bad foods, drinking excessively (too much) and smoking are people’s own stupid choices. I blame the people making those choices, not the people supplying the bad choices.
[quote]FlavaDave wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
Yes it is right for the government to do that because the idiots that will do harm to themselves greatly outweigh the smarter ones who could use AAS and other substances correctly.
I’ll never understand this train of thought. It’s just so shortsighted.[/quote]
Fuck. It is simple. Less than 1% of the weight lifting population could have the discipline to sit down and read through the Anabolics Review or other AAS reference guide and understand it. Transfer that figure into the general population and you’ve got a drop of salt in the ocean. Why deregulate something that so few people have a good understanding in. Also, most doctors know fuck all about AAS other than the basics. So who would educate the future users. I know plenty of people who would happily get into AAS if it was readily available and they don’t even have the self discipline to monitor their own diet properly.
We live in a world where pills and etc are the answer for everything. When a kids a fuck up, they put them on Ritalin. If a guys just soft in the head, lets give him some prozac. So what’s next? When a guy is a little lethargic, give him a shot of test!
I’ll lose this debate on this site because the numbers are surely stacked against me. However, in the real world sheer numbers are on my side. Sure they are not educated on the matter, but the media has done a good job of keeping them all scared and the truths of AAS hidden. Numbers rule so deal with it.
I’m educated to a degree. I’ve read much material on it. I’ve got a extensive library consisting of many good books on the subject and number of poor ones. I’ve had personal experience on AAS and as a bouncer and athlete have been around many that do also. I’ve spent time in Thailand at a Muay Thai camp where the AAS was easier to get than protein shakes and I feel like I know about 10% of what I would need to go another cycle. There is just not enough study done on it.
One simple question: What is there to gain by deregulating AAS? I’m just trying to understand where you guys are coming from. Put forward a proposed plan as to how it could be done and what would be gained by it. I’m open minded and will admit when I see a good idea. This thread has proved nothing to me yet.
[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
America’s love affair with alcohol(and the modern world’s) mainly stems with the fact that it’s cheap, legal, and socially acceptable. I mean, whenever someone mentions the dangers of alcohol, people seem to become so defensive. They always stress moderation, while at the same time vehemently opposing moderate use of illegal drugs that have less detrimental effects.
Take this hypothetical scenario:
A society exists where MDMA(ecstacy) is widely used and accepted.The drug has a long history of use throughout the ages, and its use is considered a right of passage. People use it sparingly and responsibly. It has a generally positive image in the public eye. People are aware that frequent overuse can mess a person up, but this is usually viewed as a rare occurrence. Its users(the majority of this society) defend their use of the drug and consider themselves the exception to those who fry their brains with frequent use. Harm reduction is stressed, and it is looked down upon to use the drug irresponsibly or in the wrong situations.
In contrast, the underground drug of alcohol is stigmatized and illegal. Agencies exist that circulate misconceptions of the drug into the public sphere. People are well versed on its addictive and toxic qualities, and even moderate use is looked down upon by mainstream society. There also exists a perception that the drug causes violent behavior and unrest, even in moderate quantities. Its use is limited to a small sector of society, deemed deviant and irresponsible by the mainstream.
This example may seem a bit silly, but it shows how the average person’s defense of alcohol(despite the facts Professor X posted) is entirely socially-conditioned. Most people who occasionally drink would consider themselves exceptions to alcoholics, who destroy their liver, brain, and bodies through abuse. You would be hard-pressed to find these same people defending moderate use of “illicit” drugs that are, in some cases, far more benign than alcohol. [/quote]
You’ve made a fair point there. There is no doubt alcohol is bad in high consumption. I see it daily where I work and it puts you right off it.
It’s been around for many a year and taking any action towards alcohol would be like taking an American’s guns away.
So taking personal responsibility for one’s actions is crap?
Good thing there is Big Brother.
Plenty of people in this world are too weak to take personal responsibility for their actions. Fast food is killing many people yet McDonalds and KFC are full every time I drive past. People know what they should be doing, but they are not. So why would you ever think about legalizing things that can be very harmful if abused.
[/quote]
And still you want those very same people to vote for the people who make that decisions?
You do not see any problem there?
In fact you want those people to vote for people who then make decisions for people who actually could decide for themselves, and far better.
[quote]orion wrote:
And still you want those very same people to vote for the people who make that decisions?
You do not see any problem there?
[/quote]
I see plenty of problems with America at the moment. I am American living abroad and it is interesting to sit back and watch what the country is doing to itself. Keeping the people scared and stupid seems to be working a treat for Bush.
I see plenty of problems there. But what are you going to do about it? Power in numbers. That is the democracy we go to war to impose on the rest of the world for.
What do you suggest? I honestly can’t see what people are hoping to achieve here? You will all make zero difference because the soccer moms vote, the idiots vote and they are afraid of the unknown.
Should people have to take an IQ test before they vote? No. That’s the beauty of democracy.
Simplified: Eating bad foods, drinking excessively (too much) and smoking are people’s own stupid choices. I blame the people making those choices, not the people supplying the bad choices.
[/quote]
Yet you want the government to protect us from these bad choices.
Please see my previous post about Natural Selection.
You are a vintage, veteran member of this board, yet you chose to vindicate me with your voluminous vitriol, verbalizing that I command a vacant vocabulary and lack valorousness. However, I have revolved your vice-filled vocalizations back onto you with vengeance, revealing your version of the truth to be a vacuous void of viciousness lacking vision or verisimilitude.
Others have joined the violent fray versus you, thus causing you to vacillate between targets, revealing that you are not the victor. Your petulant personality possesses a vast, pus-filled vagina, very vile, being plunged with every perpendicular penis imaginable.
What’s with the fascination with the letter ‘V’? Some say Leonardo Di Vinci put a ‘V’ in his painting of the ‘Last Supper’ to send a hidden message. Is there something subliminal going on here?
That’s smart parenting. The forbidden fruit does taste sweeter, but there are just people out there who will do things to excess no matter what is available to them or not. Booze, drugs, food, whatever. These are the people that will innevetably run into health problems in the future.
So is it the government’s responsibility to intervene in what individuals choose to do with their health? Is it alright in your opinion for the vast majority of people who would use a substance responsibly to not be allowed to because the government, for some reason or another, feels the need to regulate the personal lives of people who are probably going to do harm to themselves, whether it is legal or not?[/quote]
Haven’t you learned? He’s smarter than most of us wrt steroids and Mexico can’t keep medical records because they’re evil/stupid. He also wants a nanny-government.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
Should people have to take an IQ test before they vote? No. That’s the beauty of democracy.
Otherwise known as an idiocracy.[/quote]
Probably belongs as a thread in PWI, but I’ll ask anyway:
Do you think there should be some sort of intelligence or knowledge test voters must pass before being allowed to vote?
I really haven’t considered the topic that, much, but my initial response is that having people be required to actually know the various platforms of everyone running sure beats out letting people vote for someone “because he believes in the bible” or “because he’s black”. Then again, I’m sure the issue goes far deeper than than.
[quote]orion wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
rainjack wrote:
So taking personal responsibility for one’s actions is crap?
Good thing there is Big Brother.
Plenty of people in this world are too weak to take personal responsibility for their actions. Fast food is killing many people yet McDonalds and KFC are full every time I drive past. People know what they should be doing, but they are not. So why would you ever think about legalizing things that can be very harmful if abused.
And still you want those very same people to vote for the people who make that decisions?
You do not see any problem there?
In fact you want those people to vote for people who then make decisions for people who actually could decide for themselves, and far better.
You do not see any problems there either?
[/quote]
You have basically shredded this nitwit’s endless pages of bullshit. Good job!