Ok, so I’ll try and keep this brief. I have been doing olympic squats as much as I can for the better part of a year now (I had to take 2-3 months off squating due to several injuries). The previous years squatting I did a low bar squat but was not hitting my legs as I would like, rather it was a lower back exercise and resembled a good morning. I decided to make the change to a high bar squat. I am looking to get my squat numbers up, for leg development but also because my leg strenght is somewhat lacking.
Some more background;
Age; 24
Height; 6ft 1
Physique; Athletic with long levers
Body Weight; 104kg
Max Squat; 170kg best, 160kg I can do regularly.
Currently I squat 3 times a week, Mon, Wed, Frid, normally ramping to either a 1 rep max for that day or a 3 rep max, most (sets apart from warm downs) do not exceed 3 reps.
Questions;
-Am I squatting too often or not enough? I consider myself a beginner with regards to olympic squat because I have only been doing them for about a year, should I be doing something different?
-I have developed a pain in my right knee just below and under the patella most probably from squatting. What do you guys do in the event of knee pain, I’m thinking I should still try and squat as per normal but perhaps reduce the weight.
I do front squats occasionally, there was a while were front squats was all I did, however more recently I have been focusing on back squats because my strength is poor on them. Current front squat max is about 135kg. You you recommend working it in once per week i.e.
Mon; Back
Wed; Front
Fri; Back?
My thinking about maxing pretty much every workout and certainly every week is from following some of the threads that John Broz has been on. The only problem with maxing alot is that my joints and taking a bit of a beating.
[quote]NIguy wrote:
I do front squats occasionally, there was a while were front squats was all I did, however more recently I have been focusing on back squats because my strength is poor on them. Current front squat max is about 135kg. You you recommend working it in once per week i.e.
Mon; Back
Wed; Front
Fri; Back?
My thinking about maxing pretty much every workout and certainly every week is from following some of the threads that John Broz has been on. The only problem with maxing alot is that my joints and taking a bit of a beating.[/quote]
Monday Back, Wednesday Front, and Friday Back is a good standard schedule. That’s what I was on till I started running (now I only squat 2x a week, until my body gets used to doing both).
John Broz referred to doing the “Max you can do THAT day”, not the all time Max. (i know its confusing)
This max of the day can be 85%, or 90%, or 95% of your 1/2/3 rep max depending on the day, and how you feel.
What I’ve found works the best is to warm up your squats to do 2-5sets of 2-3reps with 80%-95% max. If you feel really strong one particular day feel free to go for an all time max out single.
[quote]NIguy wrote:
I do front squats occasionally, there was a while were front squats was all I did, however more recently I have been focusing on back squats because my strength is poor on them. Current front squat max is about 135kg. You you recommend working it in once per week i.e.
Mon; Back
Wed; Front
Fri; Back?
My thinking about maxing pretty much every workout and certainly every week is from following some of the threads that John Broz has been on. The only problem with maxing alot is that my joints and taking a bit of a beating.[/quote]
Monday Back, Wednesday Front, and Friday Back is a good standard schedule. That’s what I was on till I started running (now I only squat 2x a week, until my body gets used to doing both).
John Broz referred to doing the “Max you can do THAT day”, not the all time Max. (i know its confusing)
This max of the day can be 85%, or 90%, or 95% of your 1/2/3 rep max depending on the day, and how you feel.
What I’ve found works the best is to warm up your squats to do 2-5sets of 2-3reps with 80%-95% max. If you feel really strong one particular day feel free to go for an all time max out single. [/quote]
Ok I’ll adopt that format for the time being and see how it helps.
One thing I have noticed with my squat is that whilst my strength initally went up quite fast I have over the past few weeks of squating x3 a week noticed that my strength is actually starting to decrease somewhat. Broz refered to this as ‘the dark times,’ although I’m not sure that such a thing is possible from squatting only 3 times a week vs his guys 14!, either way my feeling is too keep on squatting in this manner until I adapt - wise?
Yes, you will adapt. Three times a week squatting Olympic-style is really not that bad. Are you competing in OL? Or do you just want a bigger squat/legs?
Andy, I am not competing in OL, I do however want to improve my squat because it is my weakest lift - I can bench very close to my 1RM on squat and that is something I must change. So at the moment strength is my priority. My goal is to have a double bodyweight squat and to improve my all round explosiveness so I have been incorporating powercleans as well. I know three times a week is not alot compared to many olympic lifter but literally no one else around me is squatting like me or with the same frequency so it is hard to bounce ideas of others.
Neo, since it was Wednesday I did front squat as suggested continuing the ramp the weights each set until I could not get three reps per set - felt good. Interestingly I had no knee pain with front squats which was a surprise and a welcome one at that.
Do the least work necessary for improvement. If that means you can squat once a week and get stronger do that. If you have to squat 4 times a week to get stronger do that. But IMO less is more.
There’s nothing wrong with some high volume thrown in too. Charles Poliquin said that the strongest fron squater he ever saw was some olympic lifter that would do 10 sets of 6 in the front squat every morning followed by 10x10 in the back squat in the evenings! Thats a tad extreme but the guy could front squat 3.3 x bodyweight, just shows that there’s more then one way to skin the cat.
I’m certainly no expert but I’ve seen a few guys on Rip’s starting strength forum who were complaining about knee pain using the high bar squat position. Did you start having the pain when you switched? I would recommend you consider switching back to low bar, especially if you’re doing front squats.
Check out Mark Rippetoe’s article on his site called “The Squat” where he specifically addresses this issue. Sorry, can’t post a link.
[quote]t_mp wrote:
I’m certainly no expert but I’ve seen a few guys on Rip’s starting strength forum who were complaining about knee pain using the high bar squat position. Did you start having the pain when you switched? I would recommend you consider switching back to low bar, especially if you’re doing front squats.
Check out Mark Rippetoe’s article on his site called “The Squat” where he specifically addresses this issue. Sorry, can’t post a link.[/quote]
Appreciate your response but honestly I think that Ripptoes squat is all wrong.
Thanks for all the replies guys, I’ll stay the course at the moment and let you ones know how it goes. Cheers.
Just squat every time you are in the gym… and vary it up. One day do a max, and follow that up with some doubles at 10-20kg less. Another day, 5x5, another day, 2 or 3 or 4RM. It’s up to you really, as long as you SQUAT.
Sorry to open an old thread but I’ve only just joined. I’m doing a very similar thing NIguy. Squatting 3 x week. Day 1 3x3 Day 2 3x2 and Day 3 3x1. I increase the weights by 5kg each week and work 4 wks on 1 week off. Starting with the weights comfortable on week 1 and hopefully breaking a pb at the end of week 4. This has taken me from a sub 400lb squat to 440lb in about 6 months. However I too have developed some knee pain (mainly from doing jump squats to fire my cns first) and have had to tone things down for a while and take some anti inflammatories. My knees are good again now so I am going back on it as its the most productive routine I’ve done. Sort your knees then carry on 3x a week and stick to 3 reps or lower. Happy lifting.
Hey, if size is your goal you are right on track to want more weight on your squats. I would do some higher rep sets one out of three sessions. Knees are mobile, hips are strong, go from your hips and allow the knee strength to feed the bull-dog, and follow through. “Push through your heels” is what OL say. Do not go heavy every day! I hope this helps.
Cheers guys, glad to see that there are other individuals doing the same thing out there. Still got some of that knee pain, managing it as best I can.
@FarmerBrett, no doubt that squating this often is helping my mass. Still not seeing the strength gains I would like, my 3rep max is improving but not my 1 rep max.
@LftHvy, yes I think I have been putting too much emphasis on leg drive rather than using the hips. I have heard people saying that you must try and get your hips under the bar as fast of possible, I’m not sure that I have that down.
Are you cycling your weights Niguy? If you’re ramping up to a 3rm 3 x week that’s pretty intense. I work 4 weeks on 1 week deload. So it looks like this
week 1 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 341 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 363 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 390 lbs
week 2 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 352 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 374 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 401 lbs
week 3 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 363 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 385 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 412 lbs
week 4 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 374 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 396 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 423 lbs
week 5 60% of week 1 or I generally need a rest so I take the week off
week 6 Start cycle again adding 5 or 10 lbs to all poundages.
Doing it this way means week 1 should feel fairly comfortable, week 2 you’re starting to feel it but you’re not worried yet, week 3 should be equalling your previous cycles last weights so should be a struggle and week 4 put’s you in new territory and hopefully new pb’s at 3, 2 and 1 rep maxes.
Sometimes you have to knock the weights down a bit to get a “running start” rather than training “balls out” 3 x a week. The slightly lower weights during the first weeks will give your knees a bit of a rest and give you more energy to improve that 1 rep max come the final week. Just some food for thought. So don’t drop your frequency because I think squatting often (3 x a week +) is important, but they can’t all be really tough sessions.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
Are you cycling your weights Niguy? If you’re ramping up to a 3rm 3 x week that’s pretty intense. I work 4 weeks on 1 week deload. So it looks like this
week 1 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 341 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 363 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 390 lbs
week 2 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 352 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 374 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 401 lbs
week 3 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 363 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 385 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 412 lbs
week 4 w/o 1 (3x3reps) @ 374 lbs w/o 2 (3x2reps) @ 396 lbs w/o 3 (3x1reps) @ 423 lbs
week 5 60% of week 1 or I generally need a rest so I take the week off
week 6 Start cycle again adding 5 or 10 lbs to all poundages.
Doing it this way means week 1 should feel fairly comfortable, week 2 you’re starting to feel it but you’re not worried yet, week 3 should be equalling your previous cycles last weights so should be a struggle and week 4 put’s you in new territory and hopefully new pb’s at 3, 2 and 1 rep maxes.
Sometimes you have to knock the weights down a bit to get a “running start” rather than training “balls out” 3 x a week. The slightly lower weights during the first weeks will give your knees a bit of a rest and give you more energy to improve that 1 rep max come the final week. Just some food for thought. So don’t drop your frequency because I think squatting often (3 x a week +) is important, but they can’t all be really tough sessions. [/quote]
cheers for the information Brett, really appreciate it and the tima taken to write that all out.
At the moment I am not cycling my weights, I ramp to as heavy as I can day day and then drop some kilos and do several more sets.
I’ll give what you suggest ago if I don’t start making progress soon - starting to get frustrated with this!
If your main goal is improved strength, you could try following the Smolov squat cycle (joeskopec.com - joeskopec Resources and Information.). From what I’ve heard it delivers great results. And since it doesn’t call for RM training it may be easier on your joints than what you’re currently doing.
No question smolov will get you strong, but it’s not the sort of routine you could base a years training around. I only did the base mesocycle but felt that rather than build strength, it taught me to “demonstrate” the strength I had already built from the previous routine I had been following, more of a “peaking” cycle really. And by virtue of the massive volume it would probably still be tough on the old joints.