Hey Doc, good thread.
Recently got into doing cleans and love doing them too. Unfortunately the last 2 sessions have resulted in pain in the right arm around the lower part of the lateral delt.
I’d imagine I’ve torn or strained it during the pull to the shoulder. Any idea what error in form I might have that would’ve caused this? I thought maybe my grip is too wide (?).
Any thoughts are appreciated Doc.
Cheers mate.
Always glad to see a new name posting. The pain you’re describing is actually not one I’ve ever had from cleans, but I have experienced that pain from other shoulder exercises, like high pulls. I suspect you may be making one of two possible technical errors. The first you already guessed, a too wide grip could do it by overstressing the insertion of the lateral deltoid into the arm bone (humerus).
A second possibility, which I see in nearly all people who start to get serious about cleans, even if they have a strong base, is to make a reverse curl type movement as they try to rack the bar. This has the added misfortune of causing the elbows to flare out, putting undue stress on the lateral delts. OL’s divide the clean pull into 1st and 2nd pulls, and as is obvious the second pull brings different muscles into play.
However, the lift is still primarily a lift of the legs, hips, back, and upper shoulders, especially traps. Even to this day I catch myself trying to manhandle the racking part with arm strength, which is the same as a golfer trying to hit the ball harder with just more arm pulling. It doesn’t work, and messes things up to boot.
Pracice your technique with just the bar, and then with light weights, gripping just at or slightly outside shoulder width, pulling the bar up close to the body and explosively racking with elbows pointed straight out.
In the video I posted, my second pull is a little slow and non-explosive. Check out Koing’s thread, and some You-tube videos of Rigert or Dimas cleaning. There’s one with Dimas practicing power cleans-it’s truly amazing. When done right, it’s like there’s no effort involved. Doc
Thanks Doc, I’m fairly confident I’m doing both of those things.
I’ll drop the weight back down and try to get the form you’ve described. I’ll check out your video’s and the youtube ones too.
Can I assume the injury of the delt is able to heal itself? it’s not too bad but I’m going to lay off for a week. I’m also carrying injuries to neck and knee and have tried to work through the pain because the stoppages really annoy me, but the rest won’t hurt I guess.
Cheers.
Sorry, but I broke out laughing at your comments about “working through pain, stoppages really annoy me.” Because you sound just like me.
I am the WORST person to give advice on this part because I just spent four months "working through" the pain of a bad shoulder injury, magically hoping it would just heal itself. It hasn't, and now I'm finally doing strategic rehab and rest. But it's annoying as hell, because once I'm in "training mode," it's takes A LOT more will power to rest than to train.
You know what you need to do now. And the good news is that YES, a muscle injury such as your delt is better than a joint injury nine times out of ten. Not only will it heal better, it usually doesn't require sophisticated rehab work like a rotator cuff injury would. Maybe you'll join me on just doing heavy leg work for a while, mate. Doc
Hahaha, love to join you Doc, if I hadn’t buggered my knee somehow (squats or deads, not sure which one caused it). Self diagnosing - I think it’s the plica.
I’m on cardio for a while now til things settle down.
Damn it!!!
BTW, your video is great, it’s a seemingly effortless move you make and far more steady than my movements.
Thanks, Duke. You know, it’s strikes me as odd that the PT’s are all pointing out how most of us get “imbalanced,” some muscles way strong, others weak, postures out of place,etc. I’m sure that’s true, but sometimes we were just made differently from the beginning. The first time I ever saw a weight was in eighth grade, when I went out for the track team for the shot and disc. They had one weight, a solid, one piece hundred pound barbell.
Some of the biggest football linemen came out to throw the shot, and many of them had trained with weights before. Some of them could clean and jerk that weight and would show off doing it. All the rookies couldn’t do anything with it. I got my chance, and could clean it with ease, but couldn’t budge it over my head at all. I got frustrated, and kept cleaning it over and over, trying to jerk it again and again without success. The head football jock laughed and proclaimed I was “Mr. Clean.”
Over the years, I worked hard to become a good pusher-bench, press, jerk, etc., and for the most part got them close to even with my clean. But after slowly de-conditioning and then having a five year bout of severe back injury etc., I found myself back to my original strengths and weaknesses.
Now, as elder statemen of the lifting game, it is clear to me that muscular balance is more important than ever but probably harder than ever to obtain.
But I'd rather be working my "stubborn" muscles anyday than just doing cardio, and I'd rather be doing cardio now than nothing at all. Doc
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
But I'd rather be working my "stubborn" muscles anyday than just doing cardio, and I'd rather be doing cardio now than nothing at all. Doc[/quote]
Bravo, nicely stated Doc.
I tell all my patients, life is hard, not fair, and enjoy the good times when you can.
It’s not a negative outlook, just a realistic one.
But I also tell them there are tough days, and then there are days where life buts THE BIG SQUEEZE on you, when you are pulled in three different directions and there isn’t a whole lot you can do. Ever have one of those days?
I had one today. My Mom fell and broke her leg, had emergency surgery yesterday, and I had to make all the accomodations. Fine. I had a new job interview, which I postponed yesterday for today. Right as I was showing up for the meeting, the hospital calls and says they need to do an emergency pacemaker placement in my Mom. Bamm! And of course, meanwhile, I’ve got some domestic crisis going on at home with the wife and kid, and the dog is loose to boot.
Oh, by the way, before all this shit hit the fan, I managed to do a good leg workout with front squats going up to a deep 1x295, which I bounced out of without ruining my knees. No great weight, but that was the only moment of the day when my mind was free.
BTW, everything somehow managed to work out OK for the moment. And days like today reminded me that fixing the moment is sometimes all you can dream of doing. I definitely had something to drink other than protein powder tonight! Never thought I’d love front squats like I did today. Doc
Do lunges, they’ll take your mind of a nuclear blast - hate 'em… but do 'em, occasionally.
You can’t see the stars until it gets dark.
Hope the folks, Mrs, kids and dog are all doing fine now Doc.
To lunge, or not to lunge, that is the question.
Whether I am a truly man (or woman) enough to do them is not yet determined.
The dog’s back, the rest we’ll have to see about today. At least I got my priorities in order, right??? Doc
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
The dog's back, the rest we'll have to see about today. At least I got my priorities in order, right??? Doc[/quote]
Of course you did Doc, of course you did .
Hey Guys,
Been out of the loop for awhile. Iwas just going to mention how thin you looked in that video when I read on as to how it got squished down. At first I thought I missed something and that was your son performing. I agree about the seemingly effortless lift. Good job.
I had a good workout last week - 5 rounds of:
power clean
power jerk
behind the neck wide power jerk
overhead squat (the bar moves through all lifts) X 7
600m run
pull ups
600m run
weight went from 95lbs to 205lbs; pull ups reps were 21, 18, 15, 12, 9
Ive done this a few times over the past few months and something finally clicked with my power clean. I scoop it a lot lower and the bar seems to move a lot faster now. I’m still working on my technique.
How’s Costa Rica treating you?
Al
HI Dr. PowerClean,
I am also in the 50 plus club. Have back issues and recovering from rotator cuff/impingement surgery 8 months ago. Went back to driving 45ft commuter buses 3 months later. Secretly lifted during the physical therapy. My ab work consists of keeping my stomach contracted all the time. It was hard to do at first because I couldn’t regulate my breathing. Now its easier because when I am not holding it in something seems to be missing…then I remember oh my stomach and I suck it back in. It has helped me and my posture is better. Keep up the good work !
Ironmademe, good to see a new over 50 guy posting here, and nice avatar. I assume you were a fan of Iron Maiden, at least I hope so cause I was (The Evil That Men Do, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son, great stuff). Of course, you just may be a woman, I have no clue!
Al, good to see you back. Your improvement is very impressive. Right now my training is limited by my right shoulder, so I am just rehabing it, and in the meantime hitting my weak legs really hard (my calves ARE really skinny, despite video compression, because of my car accident denervating my medial gastrocs.) But my other calf muscles are compensating better and better every day.
Doc
So, by now Doc, you should have figured out the answer to the question you posed as the name to this thread: The answer is ‘YES’, you are crazy. According to the standards that the world sets up, ALL T-men are absolutely fucking nuts!!
After myself and another blackbelt have literally kicked the shit out of each other at a tournament (I won!), my wife looks at me and says: “I don’t understand.” That simple. In other words, “Dear husband, you are just plain fucking nuts!!”
Accept it, DOC! We are nuts. We are raving lunatics. Relish it. Cherish it. Never let it go and NEVER let it die.
The Headhunter (I like to kick to the head)
Hot Damn, I got officially certified as crazy by Headhunter himself, all 6-6 and 284 of him. I couldn’t be happier, seriously. And yeah, I kinda figured it out a while back, I’m just enjoying the hell out of posting on this and other threads.
Now I can indulge my craziness to my heart’s content. I think I’ll try deadlifting 400 today with one arm (I’ll make sure I use my good shoulder!) Doc
Hate to post a video of a miss, but there’s a good story behind it. The vid is on my profile, still having trouble with uploading on threads (think its my converted HD tape).
Anyway, so I've been a good boy, resting my bad shoulder and doing nothing but shiny dumbell rehab work for two weeks. Can't stand it anymore, and it's feeling better, so I go in to see if I can do some heavy pulling. I work up to 3x225, feels like 135. Then do a double with 255, but I drop the bar after completing the second rep. Remember, I'm at this artsy-fartsy Gym where I can't miss a lift and have to lower. The manager comes over and asks me to "keep it down". Plus, there is a large group of skinny personal trainers gathered above on the cardio floor, and they look down in curiousity and some frowning also.
So I put 285 on there, thinking I should be able to get a solid, fairly easy single, and then move on to squats. I make a terrible pull, my bad shoulder gives out, and I miss it, dropping it loudly and cussing. The crowd of trainers moan in total disapproval, and the manager now comes over and FORBIDS me from further cleaning. Well, FINE, I say, and after he leaves, I'm really pissed.
I immediately put 430 on the bar, and deadlifted that mother with a good yell. After I drop the weight, and my son high fives me (he knew it was a comeback PR for me), the manager comes over and kicks me out of the gym. As we leave, I tell him “Thank you, you just made my day.”
BTW, shoulder's OK, no pain, it's just weak. I'm encouraged. I'll keep it going with the shiny dumbells. Doc
Thanks for your support. The fucks at your gym seem like the nurse that dropped me in the grease yesterday. Heaven help them if we get together. You’re a Doc. i’m a salesman I have no code of ethics. I like to make noice in the gym. glad to hear you’re a rocker. I refer the Crue, The Cult, The Who, Tesla, etc. I’m old but not dead.
I have the headphones on and don’t like to be interrupted unless it’s a kid. The 20-30yos know better. Grumpy old man, stay away. Firewoman or Modern Day Cowboy is worth another 25 off the floor even with my poor form. My hands are healing. Tell the manager at the gym the Missouri Mule is coming to visit. I’ll bring the bail cash.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Hate to post a video of a miss, but there’s a good story behind it. The vid is on my profile, still having trouble with uploading on threads (think its my converted HD tape).
Anyway, so I’ve been a good boy, resting my bad shoulder and doing nothing but shiny dumbell rehab work for two weeks. Can’t stand it anymore, and it’s feeling better, so I go in to see if I can do some heavy pulling. I work up to 3x225, feels like 135. Then do a double with 255, but I drop the bar after completing the second rep. Remember, I’m at this artsy-fartsy Gym where I can’t miss a lift and have to lower. The manager comes over and asks me to “keep it down”. Plus, there is a large group of skinny personal trainers gathered above on the cardio floor, and they look down in curiousity and some frowning also.
So I put 285 on there, thinking I should be able to get a solid, fairly easy single, and then move on to squats. I make a terrible pull, my bad shoulder gives out, and I miss it, dropping it loudly and cussing. The crowd of trainers moan in total disapproval, and the manager now comes over and FORBIDS me from further cleaning. Well, FINE, I say, and after he leaves, I’m really pissed. I immediately put 430 on the bar, and deadlifted that mother with a good yell. After I drop the weight, and my son high fives me (he knew it was a comeback PR for me), the manager comes over and kicks me out of the gym. As we leave, I tell him “Thank you, you just made my day.”
BTW, shoulder’s OK, no pain, it’s just weak. I’m encouraged. I’ll keep it going with the shiny dumbells. Doc[/quote]
Awesome, would have been proud to be there with you.