Now, what would your wife say if she heard i had instigated a toe amputation? I’d probably have to ban myself from the forums 
My wife really wouldn’t care if that knarly little toe was cut off. The only thing she would be interested in cutting off is…well, you know, we vowed no infidelity.
BTW, since I've reference her three times now on T-Nation, I feel obligated to state that she is drop dead gorgeous and could whoop a lot of those girls on the "best rack" thread. But don't ask for pics, anyone; we're both a little past our prime.
OMG, I’m coming back to the States for a week tomorrow. Two empty suitcases with me, plan to fill them with supplements, some Adidas weightlifting shoes, straps, lifting suits, etc. Can’t wait. Wish I could bring home 600 lbs of Eleiko weights, but you can’t have everything in life.
I’m ready to try several Biotest products, as well as some others HH recommended.
The situation is ideal. Usually, if I burn a hole in my CC for lifting stuff at my age, I get some grief from my duly concerned, finance-watching wife. However, our 20th anniversary is right after I come back, so if I bring back a really nice gift, I’m golden.
Any suggestions? Doc
Hey guys, back after a little time to heal up and travel. Got some Novadex which I’ll try for two months before going to prescription A.I. Can get some HCG also.
I continue to have my different ongoing conflicts but that will undoubtedly become boring to the readers, and my burden alone to resolve.
Except possibly one, which I hope may generate some dialogue.
It's the issue of HRT and long-term down-side. This is it in a nutshell: HRT was a rapid, life-changing solution for multiple endocrine eficiencies in me, and for many on the site. However, after three months, the magical feelings disppeared and progress slowed, and I have been duly educated that to regain the proper balance of T/E and keep the nads from disappearing I need an A.I. and HCG. So HRT is sold as a pure, simple replacement of deficient hormones, yet most men will apparently end up needing two more prescription drugs which do not fit into that simple, natural paradigm one is sold on.
Further, what will happen down the road, five years or more? Will T receptors demand higher and higher doses? Will SHBG fight back harder, E2 fluctuations become ever-burdensome? Will we still go bald like the steroid abusing BB's, even if we use DHT blocking shampoos? There are many questions I have, these and more. I bought into way too many "wonder drugs" in psychiatry that turned out to be shit, so I have a right to be suspicious.
Now, is anybody out there a living, breathing example of somebody who used HRT to dig themselves out of a dreadful spot in life, but was able to successfully wean off of the HRT and continue a vibrant life? If so, that should be a model to consider as a possibility for some if not most.
For example, in my case, I do not know what caused my hypothryroidism, but moving to a remote tropical locale for a year might have contributed (dietary/external factors). My nads are bad from varicoles in large part although I am sure there are other factors (stress, insomnia, multiple surgeries, phytoestrogens, age, etc.)
The science of “natural” HRT (using herbal and alternative medicines to boost the body’s natural production) is to my mind currently primitive, but if it could be improved substantially, it could be the answer to getting off the HRT and still being able to stay strong, vibrant and sexual. Also, in my case and in others, perhaps a procedure is required to fix a surgically correctible reason for a particular endocrine deficieny (e.g. fixing my varicoceles.) Some men may have occult pituitary adenomas, thyroid tumors, etc.
If you've read my earlier posts, you will probably deduce part of my concerns arise from my desire to compete in OL Masters lifting, an impossibility on HRT. But as time has elapsed, that is NOT the major reason I am currently conflicted. I am still first and foremost a doctor, and that is why I am conflicted. HRT is the best solution for now for those who need it, but we must work together to
figure out all of the ramifications. In life, for something truly life-changing, there is a price to pay. What price will we be paying in the future for the miracle of HRT? Doc
Good to hear you’re working cause you love it. I’m a 65 yr old female who just started working out with weights and a trainer in May 2006, and I love it. I am looking for other over 55 yrs. females to talk to about this great journey.
Dr. PowerClean -
Your story is truly inspirational. I know what you mean about the passion in life and passion in lifting. Your story reminds me of something I’ve realized recently as I approach 40, which is that I am now old enough, been through enough experiences, tried enough things, that I know what I like and, funny thing, many of those things (heavy lifting) is the same things I found I liked/loved years ago. Lifting, and lifting heavy, has been one of those “loves” for me. While I have not had the history of injury and recovery you have had, below is my story of the past year…which sounds like nothing compared to your climb back.
Last September (Sept. 23rd, 2006, to be EXACT!), I fell backwards, legs knocked out from under me at a waterpark (I was clearly the oldest and largest on the ride - a surfing-style, skill ride known as a Flow Ride), and landed on my armpit. At about 215lbs, gravity and age (37 at the time) it made for a powerful explosion deep inside my shoulder. Between laughing and near tears (laughter and pain!), didn’t think much of it …although having never breakon a bone before, thought something serious may have happened.
After laying off the weights for a couple weeks, it felt 50 - 75% better and started working out again. But slowly over approx. 4 weeks, I got weaker and weaker in excercises like bench, shoulder press, etc…
So, in early Nov. 2006, went to several doctors, MRI, etc…and was diagnosed with a torn labrum (for those who never heard of it - which I hadn’t - it’s the cartilage that acts as a cushion in your shoulder socket (glenoid) and the upper arm bone). Basically, it makes everything fit and snug in there.
After 3 hour surgery in early Jan, doc tells me that when he went in to repair the labrum, he found torn rotator cuff also and “cleaned it up” by snipping off the torn area. Apprently, unless the tear is around halfway or more, we have enough to just clip away the torn part.
After surgery, then the fun started. My doctor was very aggressive in the rehab, IMO…and I viewed that as a good thing. He had me doing stretching exercises the morning after and I pursued them like crazy. I followed everything suggested to a tee. After 2 weeks post-op I went to more formal rehab and continued various stretching and bodyweight-based strengthening exercises.
After 4 weeks, light weights, but crazy high reps…which was new to me. Prior to this, “high” reps meant double digit, like 10 or 11!!!. After about 4 weeks of using very light weights and high reps (20 - 30 per set), at about the 8 wk mark, he gave me somewhat clearance to do any exercise but bench and shoulder press. I didn’t really listen and instead set the safety pins about 2/3 down to the spot it started to hurt - basically I followed is overriding mantra about rehab, which was “do it until it hurts”.
After 4 months formal rehab, mixed in with slowing building my strength back to more normal weights and reps, I was more cut than I ever have been, at leaner looking 210.
Sorry! Here’s the rest of what I meant to write, continued from above:
I am now 9 months post op and looking over my session log (kept it religiously since around 1999), see that I have excelled at some excercises (Shrugs max out at 520lbs for 7-8 reps; seated calf raises at 515 lbs for 15-16 reps per set), while still catching up in others (bench - maxing out at 315 for 4 reps; pre-injury was at 345 for 3-4 reps).
I am very thankful of where I am today, glad I made the surgery decision as quick as I did and hope to never have an injury like that or worse (as I am sure many of you have!) I could have easily alyed off the heavy weights, partic in shoulder press and bench, for fear of injury, but I have taken the risks and glad I did. I read on other websites of people with same injury/surgery who have been told never to bench again, and don’t go heavy.
But like many of those on this site, I am who I am and something innate in my psyche and my body tells me to go back to “heavy” or don’t go back at all. Sound familiar, anyone???
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Welcome, lighthouse, 65 huh. I might just have to show my wife your post. She thinks her athletic days are over at 47.
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StuGotts-thanks for your comments and story. I grimmaced reading your shoulder story, as twice I went through the same story of…“labrum damage first, more damage to supraspinatus found later, etc…” Twice I went through the puzzle of rehab, I thought too aggressively the first time, but in retrospect the second time was not aggressive enough. You really have to push through pain in rehab to get the job done, which is hard to do mainly because of fear of causing new damage.
This week was a good one for my still recovering left shoulder, but dumbell presses really tell you how weak and ginger it still is if you go heavy. That 60lb dumbell felt like a toy in my good shoulder and a ton in my bad one.
I have had my story online now for about a month, and some things have gotten much clearer for me. It's done me more good than going to a shrink (I would know.) I think we are all blessed with only a few true passions in this life, and if lifting is one of them, it will not be denied, not be age, not by injury, not by the opinions of doctors and others. It can only get lost for a time.
I still have wonder and awe for this sport, for virtually all aspects of it. I’m amazed at the 19 year old kid deadlifting 775. I’m amazed a short guy is working despterately hard just to be able to dunk. I’m amazed at the courage and strength of the women, in a sport they must feel very isolated in. I’m amazed at the great commaraderie a bunch of very strong 50ish PL’s share on other threads in this section. I’m amazed at Jay Cutler’s massive body, even though I know he’s a walking chemistry experiment. I like it all, like I enjoyed calculating your BP 1RM at about 350 now and at one point you were pushing 400. At your bodyweight, STRONG!
I am even amazed at myself. Not so much in my power cleaning ability at 50, even though I am proud to have overcome many physical obstacles. My pulling power is mostly genetic. But the true amazement comes in that I have found and recaptured a young man's simple joy at a sport still relegated to the sidelines of American culture.
For example, I received my Adidas lifting shoes and lifting suit in the mail yesterday, and I felt like I was seven years old again opening Christmas presents. And I found some leather straps-they are so cool, they are thinner yet stronger than the old cotten ones I used thirty years ago.
If this is crazy, I want to stay crazy the rest of my life. Doc
Wait, i only had one point jump out at me… your wife thinks her athletic days are over at 47? NOOOOOOOOO… I hope to continue competing until then, LOL. I wish i were more athletic and played more sports. I was seriously hoping to see her start a journal here soon!
Shelle, my wife was a tennis star in college but never one for the gym. However, in the year 2000 I got her excited about trying the Bill Phillips Body For Life competition, as a couple. We had both let ourselves go quite a bit, and that $100,000 prize was VERY compelling. We did the ninety days like two possessed animals, training cardio every morning and weights every evening, figuring out a split as to never miss a single workout the entire time, and to never eat one bite off a strict diet.
She lost 41 lbs and came in looking better than on our wedding day. I made dramatic progress too, but I didn’t get quite cut enough, only could get down to 12% BF (it’s very hard for me to get to single digits, did it only once in my life when I was 25.)
Everyone in our area still was SURE we would win, none moreso than my wife. We didn't even get honorable mention. She was SO PISSED, she swore she would never work out the "rest of her life." She is a woman of her word, unfortunately.
If anyone ever comes near her, please be very careful never to mention the name Bill Phillips...
LOL, that’s how I got started too. Did BFL with a friend, he dropped out and I kept going. Next thing I knew, I was buying hooker heels and strutting my stuff in a rhinestoned bikini (wow, sounds like a bad country song).
I’ll keep hoping she joins the other ladies here Until then, I guess we have to listen to just you ramble,LOL.
�?'m trying to post a pic, but I’m having some trouble so bear with me. I only have this one bad video from two and a half months ago of me power cleaning 275. Here goes.
Damn, I’m not having any luck. Seriously, I’m not trying to be secretive. I tried putting it on HT’s thread, then mine, and finally on my profile. The third time it said it took it, but it’s been 30 minutes and it’s still not there. I’ll try again in the morning. Sorry, I’m still a nube I guess. Doc
Hey, I finally got it to work. I put the video on my profile. It took FOUR HOURS to upload. I like video photography, nature mostly, like exotic birds and animals, so I have a nice hi-def camcorder. I take videos and edit them on Pinnacle software, transferring them to standard MPEG-4 quality for viewing on computers. Maybe I need to trasnfer them to a different format for posting stuff here. If anybody knows the best format for here, please let me know.
BTW, the widescreen video got compressed, I’m “wider” than it looks there. Doc
I ask myself many of the same questions you ask, Doc, but when I start to get strung out on them I ask myself this one… What are the long term effects of not taking TRT? Feeling shitty, increased risk of heart disease, muscle and bone loss, etc. No thanks.
What we know about endocrinology is barely a drop in the bucket compared to what we don’t know. And let’s not forget that the body is a homeostatic system and will react to ANYTHING you do to it. This isn’t an easy or risk-free journey but that is true no matter what you do or don’t do.
As for the natural thing, what’s natural is to wither away and die, so I’m not a big fan of natural.
I have no doubt that at some time in the future, we will fully understand the workings of the human body and be able to manipulate them at our will, but until that time we have to do the best we can with what we’ve got.
Happy dog, I appreciate your comments a lot. I get tied up in knots mentally some times. Partly because of our still primitive medical system, and partly because I have friends in different “camps,” i.e. traditional doctor friends, and holistic folks who would rather take some ground willow tree bark instead of an aspirin for a fever. If I ever got all my friends in the same room there would be one hell of a good fight! I could charge it on PPV.
In the mean time, you are dead right, we either fully live, or we slowly die. Looking at it that way, there really isn’t much of a conflict, is there? Doc
Trust your own reason and intuition above all else, Doc. I’ve been peeking at your running log here, every now and again, and it’s good to see. There’s something very uplifting about watching other people ‘click’ with the joy of that endless battle for self-improvement. The weights are only one aspect of it, but they’re the easiest to articulate.
As for the HRT; I’m not on, though I’ve considered looking into it. After my daughter was born a couple years back (I was 34 at the time, 36 now) I went through a period where I thought I was losing my mind. No energy, no drive, no desire to move. Wake up in the morning, and didn’t want to get out of bed; at night I was too restless and didn’t want to sleep. My training went to shit. Things kept getting worse as work piled up and an old friend of over 20 years died under very questionable circumstances. I refused to seek medical help because I knew that I’d end up getting a prescription for anti-depressants shoved at me, and I wasn’t too keen on the sides those carried.
It finally turned around when I forced myself to train regularly again, and as part of that I picked up a few bottles of Tribestus + Avena as a sort of extra little incentive boost – I’m a cheap bastard, and hate spending money I could sock away into my daughter’s education fund. Funny thing is that a week or two after I started taking the supplement and working out, I felt like a new man. Night and day difference. I still wasn’t back to my old self, but I didn’t want to curl up and die anymore, either.
I now take the stuff for a few weeks, go off for a few, back on for a few… over and over again. It may not be optimal, but it seems to do the job in regulating the effect.
Perhaps the solution is similar for your HRT? Cycle it. Treat it like steroid users do. Go with HRT for a couple months, take Nolva and cycle off for a couple months. Get your hormone levels tested while off to make sure you’re not crashing too far. It might help with this situation of growing accustomed/resistant to the HRT.
Northcott, appreciate the comments, you sound like me, about 11-12 years ago. Hit a rough spot, somebody close to me died, the aging process started kicking in, money problems etc. Like yourself, I didn’t want the same drugs I prescribed to my clients (Prozac, Zoloft, etc.) I did try them, many of them, and of course, I had worse side effects than any of my patients. I think God was laughing on that one.
I launched into one of my alternative medicine phases (I go in and out of them, depending on what’s new and what’s working). Did the Trib, 5-HTP, St. John’s Wort, various aminos, and successfully fought my way out of that hole.
This recent hole of mine was the Grand Canyon compared to that hole. If it wasn’t for HRT I would probably have ended up like my Dad (an ultimately fatal stroke in his 50’s). So like others here have reminded me, I have to keep perspective and not be too quick to nitpick the downsides of HRT.
However, you raise an interesting point about "cycling." I am not sure that would work for many people, especially if they have a primary defect (nads or thyroid permanently defective). However, for those who have more of a nonspecific, or situationally-related global depression of their endocrine system (generic andropause), it might work to cycle. In that case, I am pretty sure you would need more than Nolvadex while off HRT. I think you would also need HCG to jump start your LH again, maybe Adex and the latest Trib type herbal T boosters.
It is a model I will explore, and hope others will too. I realize many over 35 folks are cycling already, but I suspect most of them are using supra-physiologic doses of AAS’s and HAVE to cycle.
I have to take one step at a time. Right now I am dealing with two priorities. First, I have come to the realization that I must properly rehab my still ailing left shoulder before I proceed with a serious heavy lifting comeback. I've immediately changed my routine to only shoulder rehab/shoulder friendly upper body work, and heavy lower body work.
Secondly, I am still not quite where I was two months ago in how I feel and how my body was responding to HRT, and I am pretty convinced my T/E ratio is too low. My T is about twelve times E, and I am pretty convinced that is the problem. (Lost my morning wood and irritability is up, despite life cirumstances being pretty good).
I started Nolvadex a week ago, but I am fairly convinced I’ll need Adex. Just gonna give the Nolva another two weeks or so.
I guess that was two steps at a time.
Later, Doc
It was certainly complete guesswork on my part. I’ve no concrete information or evidence that would point to the cycling as being effective, but it strikes me that – as fitness culture seems to be anywhere from 10-30 years ahead of the general populace in figuring out what works – that with HRT it might be a good idea to look at the trails blazed by AAS users. While their doses may far exceed the levels used by people involved in HRT, the physiological response may be similar, though in more subtle ways.
I don’t know if anybody’s been trying this approach yet, but it seems to me that you’re in a fairly rare position combining resources, knowledge, and the open mind required to see if it’s successful. Not that I’m trying to turn you into a guinea pig.
Best of luck.
Northcott, this cycling issue is of great interest to me. Also of interest is if people out there have used HRT to get themselves out of a state of hormonal deficiency and then managed to improve their metabolism, mood, life situation etc. sufficiently to then get off HRT and still do well. I’ll keep my eyes and ears open on both of these topics, and anyone feel free to post on these issues.
I do want to report on my recent necessary dramatic change in my training. I had to face the reality that my left shoulder was not going to fully heal with the routine I was doing, so I went back to rehab exercises. Today was "shiny dumbell" day, you know the 8 and 12 pound dumbells have the gloss silver, and the real dumbells start at 25 pounds.
I did front, side and real laterals, lying abduction raises, an EC shoulder mobility exercise, seated db presses with low weight/high reps, db bench presses with elbows tight and stopping as if they were benches to a block, and finished with some assisted pull-ups. Five sets of 10-15 on everything.
My shoulder DID NOT HURT on anything-this was great. But I was shocked at how on the most rotator cuff specific exercise I know of, the lying bent elbow abduction raise, I could easily do 12x15 on my good shoulder, and barely 8x 8 (yes, eight) on my bad one. Wake up call, there.
How ironic, I now am really looking forward to leg day, because there I can still squat and leg press hard and heavy.
Doc