New member, no picture yet. Just went through a lot of this thread. Good stuff. Dr PowerClean, do you still do any throwing? Introduction: I’m 52 and compete in master’s Track and Field and Highland games. Started back 2 years ago after a very long layoff and numerous injuries. Lots of lifting. Current PR’s are BP/405, DL/505, CJ/275. Afraid to try higher in the CJ because where I work out doesn’t have bumper plates and it strains the hell out of me putting the weight down. Working legs with everything but squats. I keep getting stronger but the strength isn’t equating to distance in the shot and disc. I’m adding some sprint work but any thoughts on plyos add our age?
PS, not sure how this will come out as I’m still figuring this site out.
[quote]hel320 wrote:
New member, no picture yet. Just went through a lot of this thread. Good stuff. Dr PowerClean, do you still do any throwing? Introduction: I’m 52 and compete in master’s Track and Field and Highland games. Started back 2 years ago after a very long layoff and numerous injuries. Lots of lifting. Current PR’s are BP/405, DL/505, CJ/275. Afraid to try higher in the CJ because where I work out doesn’t have bumper plates and it strains the hell out of me putting the weight down. Working legs with everything but squats. I keep getting stronger but the strength isn’t equating to distance in the shot and disc. I’m adding some sprint work but any thoughts on plyos add our age?
PS, not sure how this will come out as I’m still figuring this site out. [/quote]
Welcome, he1320. Very nice lifts for a fellow senior citizen. And yes, “lowering” in OL will kill your body faster than anything.
Ever since I purposely fouled on my last collegiate throw, a throw of 58-11, three inches short of Olympic qualifying, I have not touched a shot put (or discus). I don’t want to, I gave my all to the sport and I really wasn’t that gifted in it, I just made myself decent at it by being as big and strong as possible. Sorry, no love there. Before I got so focused on the Olympics, I probably had more fun throwing, and I always enjoyed the meets and the commaraderie. Got to meet great people along the way, like Al Oerter, John Powell, Brad Cooper, and many others.
What you said about getting strong not equating to further distance was a painful reminder to me of my senior year. In that year I upped my training from dedicated to fanatic animal levels, lifted crazy numbers like a 420 power clean and jerk, a 405 incline bench, etc, but my shot and disc numbers barely moved from my junior year’s numbers. It was SO FRUSTRATING. I am glad to talk to somebody who actually understands what this paradox feels like. I’m not sure why this thing happens, maybe it has to do with functional dynamics, kinesiology, and other concepts that fly over my head. BTW you can send me the bill for this shrink session later. lol
Funny you mentioned sprints and plyos. I have thought of adding these to help my current drive to resurrect my OL “career” and maybe compete in Master’s in a year or two.
Especially box jumping-I’ve read here how that’s helped a lot of strength athletes. Plus I used to love running 40’s, makes for a great workout and improves explosiveness.
Look forward to seeing more of your posts. Doc
Doc, I did the bulking quite a few months ago and size gains were good but the belly didn’t impress me.
As most would know it can be hard to shift the tyre around the mid section when you get a little older, so I decided to drop some weight.
I’ve been eating well and taking HRX for 3 months or so now (2 bottles with a month off in between) and I’ve dropped 15lbs so far and gone down from a pant size of 40 to 34.
My bulking included a lot of shit food but if I do it again I’ll be sure to bulk on quality food - you live and learn.
Well, I’m not getting any prettier being a little heavier, but I’m getting stronger. I did 11 triples in the power clean today, most at 93kg and the last set at 112kg. That triple was a comeback PR, and I was sucking wind BEFORE the set. Whew, what a workout! Koing gave me the idea of doing six sets at 75-80%, I had been doing the same old ascending pyramid thing I’ve always done, with mostly doubles and singes, and was STUCK. I couldn’t resist going above the 80% though,today, that’s just me I guess, and I felt good.
I have made the mistake of posting a lot lately on the Get A Life section. People there just seem to WANT to get into flame wars. After years of work with conflicted, angry people, I have no tolerance for these flame wars. I'll stick to constructive threads that I can learn from or contribute to, about lifting and related issues. Doc
I look at my belly as an example of an investment. It took years to acquire it and it will take years to rid myself of the investment. Buffet’s are always a treat and I am a threat to their food cost. Sometimes the mirror isn’t too kind. As I have quoted rodney Dangerfield before, I may not be who you want but I’m all you want. Train hard. Doc, stay away from those negative threads. Very low energy.
Hey, to my older readers out there, I would appreciate some input.
Once again, my body is trashed the day after an intense OL or DL workout. My back is shot, legs and hips…difficult getting out of bed this morning.
I’m not whining-God help me if I was-I’m just wondering…is this just the way its going to be from now on? I’m five months now into my comeback, my conditioning must be getting decent. I am not in denial of the fact I have no discs at L4-S1, sewn up shoulders, and no nerve function to my inner calves. But I thought I had overcome these issues to a point that I could work “around them”, so to speak.
I’ve tried to be inspirational to others who face long odds in a comeback. If I have to face being trashed every other day and working out with some pain every workout, you know what-I’LL KEEP DOING IT!
I just was wondering if anybody had gone through something similar and ended up tolerating their heavy workouts better than this. Doc
My story, not sure if it’s inspirational. 30 year military career. At 28 and a body weight of 217 Benched 455, Squatted 625, and Deadlift6ed 655. That’s back when we wore a t- shirt and a pair of shorts. Threw the shot 52’?11" and the disc 167’5".
Then I got 6 presents from Mr. Kalashnikov’s gift to the world. 3 in the left rear delt and 3 in the left hip. Crashed twice in helos. Two broke legs, lots of ribs, assorted other bones. Eliminated much of the rotational ability in my left arm. Left hip had very little flexibility. Could barely twist at the hips. Eventually retired from the military.
Exercise program was nil. Work, home, TV. One day 2 years ago saw the results of a Master’s Track meet. Wondered what I could still do. Real eye opener. Shot almost broke my wrist and barley cleared my feet. Took a good look at myself in the mirror. 265 lbs of jello hard flab. Ah, but I had excuses for being this way.
Then came the ultimate, “I still love you, honey” from the wife. Screw the doctors, their rubber bands, and their, “Just do enough to try and maintain the flexibility you have.” First time back to the gym gonna warm up with 135 on the bench. Warm up? I couldn’t lift it. So I started with the bar.
For the first few months I babied myself. Hey, I’m 50 and I’ve got to be careful. The change came at Christmas. I got a bunch of cute little matching workout outfits. Next would be the Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian shits, and black socks up to my knees. Sat down and wrote myself some goals based on heavy lifting.
Nothing above 6 reps, pyramiding, all big lifts, very little assistance lifts. I also came to believe that one of the major problems with lifters our age is mental. We’re conditioned to think old and settle for less than we can do. True or not it works for me.
Do I hurt? Yes. A lot. Damaged? No. Okay, kick it up another notch.
I’ve added assistance exercises. I’ve also added the Highland games. I set goals for my lifting and throwing. If I don’t make them, revise and try again. Am I sore, a lot, and recovery takes s longer but is getting shorter. I can do weighted twist and leg cross overs now. I lift 4 days a week and most of my cardio comes from being a mailman with a walking route.
I’m at 237 (6’2") and I really don’t watch my diet much. No supplements or vitamins till I see some real proof on them. Addicted to coffee. Will I hurt myself? Maybe. Okay, revise and try again.
Sorry about rambling on but it’s good to talk to some other serious lifters who don’t say “yes sir” when you ask for a spot.
[quote]hel320 wrote:
My story, not sure if it’s inspirational. 30 year military career. At 28 and a body weight of 217 Benched 455, Squatted 625, and Deadlift6ed 655. That’s back when we wore a t- shirt and a pair of shorts. Threw the shot 52’?11" and the disc 167’5".
Then I got 6 presents from Mr. Kalashnikov’s gift to the world. 3 in the left rear delt and 3 in the left hip. Crashed twice in helos. Two broke legs, lots of ribs, assorted other bones. Eliminated much of the rotational ability in my left arm. Left hip had very little flexibility. Could barely twist at the hips. Eventually retired from the military.
Exercise program was nil. Work, home, TV. One day 2 years ago saw the results of a Master’s Track meet. Wondered what I could still do. Real eye opener. Shot almost broke my wrist and barley cleared my feet. Took a good look at myself in the mirror. 265 lbs of jello hard flab. Ah, but I had excuses for being this way.
Then came the ultimate, “I still love you, honey” from the wife. Screw the doctors, their rubber bands, and their, “Just do enough to try and maintain the flexibility you have.” First time back to the gym gonna warm up with 135 on the bench. Warm up? I couldn’t lift it. So I started with the bar.
For the first few months I babied myself. Hey, I’m 50 and I’ve got to be careful. The change came at Christmas. I got a bunch of cute little matching workout outfits. Next would be the Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian shits, and black socks up to my knees. Sat down and wrote myself some goals based on heavy lifting.
Nothing above 6 reps, pyramiding, all big lifts, very little assistance lifts. I also came to believe that one of the major problems with lifters our age is mental. We’re conditioned to think old and settle for less than we can do. True or not it works for me.
Do I hurt? Yes. A lot. Damaged? No. Okay, kick it up another notch.
I’ve added assistance exercises. I’ve also added the Highland games. I set goals for my lifting and throwing. If I don’t make them, revise and try again. Am I sore, a lot, and recovery takes s longer but is getting shorter. I can do weighted twist and leg cross overs now. I lift 4 days a week and most of my cardio comes from being a mailman with a walking route.
I’m at 237 (6’2") and I really don’t watch my diet much. No supplements or vitamins till I see some real proof on them. Addicted to coffee. Will I hurt myself? Maybe. Okay, revise and try again.
Sorry about rambling on but it’s good to talk to some other serious lifters who don’t say “yes sir” when you ask for a spot.
[/quote]
Damn good post. Read it four times. Just what I needed tonight. Thanks. Doc
[quote]hel320 wrote:
Then came the ultimate, “I still love you, honey” from the wife. Screw the doctors, their rubber bands, and their, “Just do enough to try and maintain the flexibility you have.” First time back to the gym gonna warm up with 135 on the bench. Warm up? I couldn’t lift it. So I started with the bar.
[/quote]
I loved this post so much I'm referencing it twice. This one paragraph in particular gave me chills. This is exactly where I was, earlier THIS YEAR, after five years of surgeries and rehabs. The most natural act for any serious weight lifter is to get on that bench and warm up with 135. When you can't even do it, once, you feel like someone switched your body out with somebody else's. And the damn doctors with their colored rubber bands and pathetically low expectations....I could write a book on that. And despite it all, a loving wife will not see any of it other than the pain in your face. Hel320, posts like yours not only convince me this thread is worth doing, but convince me I'm not crazy in my DEEP BELIEF that regaining true strength is part of the SOLUTION to my damaged body, not contributing to the problem.
Doc
I’ve never had to go as far as surgery for my injuries, but I’ve certainly been to 9.9 on the pain scale from shoulder injuries and I’ve always gone back to something I learned years ago (which may or may not be theoretically true) that said high repetition training promotes blood flow and capillary building and so my basic approach to injury rehab has always been high repetition training until I’m completely pain free for at least two weeks. In some cases, this has started out as no weight, no bar, no nothing, just “going through the motions.” When I can do 100 reps with no pain, I start adding small weights and when I get to about half of my usual weight for 100 reps for a couple of weeks, I go back to heavy lifting.
This may seem like overkill in the being careful department, but I find no virtue in being in pain and it’s not like I need to meet a deadline. And yeah, I feel stupid rowing with an air bar, but it works for me, so I’d rather feel stupid than feel pain.
I also believe in massage, especially right after working out when my muscles are warm. “Honey, if you massage my shoulder for me after my workout, I promise to make it worth your while.” Gives my tongue a workout too and quality time with the little lady is always a good thing.
[quote]happydog48 wrote:
I’ve never had to go as far as surgery for my injuries, but I’ve certainly been to 9.9 on the pain scale from shoulder injuries and I’ve always gone back to something I learned years ago (which may or may not be theoretically true) that said high repetition training promotes blood flow and capillary building and so my basic approach to injury rehab has always been high repetition training until I’m completely pain free for at least two weeks. In some cases, this has started out as no weight, no bar, no nothing, just “going through the motions.” When I can do 100 reps with no pain, I start adding small weights and when I get to about half of my usual weight for 100 reps for a couple of weeks, I go back to heavy lifting.
This may seem like overkill in the being careful department, but I find no virtue in being in pain and it’s not like I need to meet a deadline. And yeah, I feel stupid rowing with an air bar, but it works for me, so I’d rather feel stupid than feel pain.
I also believe in massage, especially right after working out when my muscles are warm. “Honey, if you massage my shoulder for me after my workout, I promise to make it worth your while.” Gives my tongue a workout too and quality time with the little lady is always a good thing.[/quote]
Wisdom here. When my body is more than beat up, but into "heading towards surgery" joint pains, I both retreat to high rep low weights, and I use machines and lifts that are the most joint friendly. A month ago I did that with my shoulders and I have come back to near pain free there again. Pain free may be an impossibility for me...I know, beware the limiting beliefs...but I have gotten better in trying to distinguish "Red alert" pain from "old chronic damage" pain. I listen to the first, and have to just deal with the second.
As a whole, without question, I have less pain today, despite my heavy training, than I did a couple of years ago sitting on my ass with my disability rating and my bottle of Vicodin. Yes, maybe I push too hard, because of my zeal right now, and "trash" my body and CNS regularly. But I wouldn't trade how I feel today for how I felt the past five years for a million dollars (or more). Doc
I’ll throw my experience as well. As I get toward the end of a cycle of heavy lifting, I find that I recover better and stronger if I do a run of high rep/low weight for a microcycle. All the joint pains disappear. All the nagging muscle tightnesses that have developed during the minicycle just go away and I feel I can actually use the strength I’ve developed.
As historical evidence for this many of the old time strongmen used to switch in high rep exercises with their “event” or “feat” work, to insure their longevity in their profession.
Arthur Saxon used max singles in his training almost exclusively, but biked everywhere and performed calisthenics on off days. Slim Farman, famous for levering damned heavy sledgehammers, used lighter sledges in his day job for hours on end. Bud Jeffries, only man I know of who’s performed a 1000 lb Anderson squat (squat from the bottom, swears by high repetition work for keeping his joints and muscles conditioned.
Even Louis Simmons of Westside and his lifters use weights lifted for time, rather than a particular rep count to keep themselves healthy.
Well, I am very happy to report yesterday’s workout, it was another small victory in my drive to overcome my injuries and continue to regain my strength.
Bench press
2x5x135
5x185
5x225
3x245
3x265
3x275
This is thirty pounds more than I was able to do about a week ago. My joints felt great and thank God for MUSCLE MEMORY!!!
Inspired me to go on and try jerking off the rack, for the first time in my comeback. i’ve done presses, push presses, and power jerks once, but no real jerks with split feet. Doing these was almost like an anthropological experiment-I havent done them in (and the chorus sings-thirty years!). Seriously, I fumbled around and looked like an idiot for the first twenty minutes of doing these. Didn’t even remember which foot I used to put out in front!!!
At first, I was pressing it, shuffling my feet just a foot apart, all sorts of absurd movements. My lifts went something like this.
3x135 all over the place, retreated to bar
barx 30 reps
3x135, somewhat better, still wobbly, shaky
3x135 a little faster if you use your legs!
3x155 power jerked the middle one for no reason
0x185,2x185 Missed the FIRST one, forgot my leg drive
3x205 bad lockouts on two reps
0x225 afraid to miss, have no platform, forgot to split, so tried to press it. Came close to pressing it!
1x235 good form. Best form of the day. Called it quits before I hurt myself or dropped a big weight on the Worlds Gym floor.
What an amazing journey I am on. And thanks to you guys paying interest, it helps. I lift for me, totally a selfish, endeavor, but it adds just a little knowing I’m gonna have to post my workouts, and I want to post something respectable, inspiring or at least entertaining.
Doc
It’s funny, nobody’s posting at all on this section this morning. Thanksgiving day hangover, or wives/gf’s dragged them out shopping?
Anyway, I feel really good this morning. I was semi-trashed yesterday again after my intense w.o. Wed, not quite as bad though-more physical than CNS. Today I should be strong as an ox in my workout. I’m posting this because I have always been curious about how some days, you feel great and don’t necessarily lift great, and some days you feel tired or lackluster and find a spark and lift great. Know what I mean?
We shall see. Doc
Dr PowerClean,
Great thread. I don’t have an inspirational comment. Just where I’ve been and where I’m going.
I’m approaching 50 next year. I’m 6’3". My sports background never included weight lifting.
In high school I swam, played water polo, and Tennis. In college I play Tennis. This was during the late 70s and Tennis was huge. I thought I would become the next great Tennis legend. That didn’t happen. So I ended up getting a degree and moving on to new sports. I took up basketball and ended up playing on local recreational teams. The last team I was on was entirely made up of former college and high school basketball players - with the exception of me.
So how did a skinny guy get into weight lifting? Long story short - I broke my wrist in my mid 20s and didn’t get it fixed correctly. Fifteen years later my wrist was totally falling apart. I went to a couple of doctors and they all said they would have to fuse my bones together. I finally met a doctor who tried an experimental procedure on me. I ended up being in a full arm cast for nine months (every two weeks I’d get a replacement cast). I had an electronic bone stimulator attached to wrist to get the blood flowing. Once I got the cast off it took another 3 months just to straighten out my arm. That was really painful.
During this time I started reading up on bone density and weight lifting, etc. So I started weight lifting. That was about 10 years ago.
When I started lifting I was 180 lbs. I’m now 225 lbs. Still not big but much better than I was. I was so weak when I started lifting. I remember barely being able to bench 45 lbs dumbbells. It was a struggle.
My max bench right now is just over 300 lbs (still trying to get that elusive 315 lbs). And my max squat is the same (that’s going all the way down). I’m currently going through a shoulder rehab - 2.5 months since the surgery. So I’m going higher reps right now until the shoulder heals.
I’ll never be a power lifter. I know I’ll never put up the huge numbers that I read about on T-Nation. But I will continue to lift as heavy as I can and as often as possible. I love that deep soreness you get after a great workout.
Carlsbad
[quote]Carlsbad wrote:
Dr PowerClean,
Great thread. I don’t have an inspirational comment. Just where I’ve been and where I’m going.
I’m approaching 50 next year. I’m 6’3". My sports background never included weight lifting.
In high school I swam, played water polo, and Tennis. In college I play Tennis. This was during the late 70s and Tennis was huge. I thought I would become the next great Tennis legend. That didn’t happen. So I ended up getting a degree and moving on to new sports. I took up basketball and ended up playing on local recreational teams. The last team I was on was entirely made up of former college and high school basketball players - with the exception of me.
So how did a skinny guy get into weight lifting? Long story short - I broke my wrist in my mid 20s and didn’t get it fixed correctly. Fifteen years later my wrist was totally falling apart. I went to a couple of doctors and they all said they would have to fuse my bones together. I finally met a doctor who tried an experimental procedure on me. I ended up being in a full arm cast for nine months (every two weeks I’d get a replacement cast). I had an electronic bone stimulator attached to wrist to get the blood flowing. Once I got the cast off it took another 3 months just to straighten out my arm. That was really painful.
During this time I started reading up on bone density and weight lifting, etc. So I started weight lifting. That was about 10 years ago.
When I started lifting I was 180 lbs. I’m now 225 lbs. Still not big but much better than I was. I was so weak when I started lifting. I remember barely being able to bench 45 lbs dumbbells. It was a struggle.
My max bench right now is just over 300 lbs (still trying to get that elusive 315 lbs). And my max squat is the same (that’s going all the way down). I’m currently going through a shoulder rehab - 2.5 months since the surgery. So I’m going higher reps right now until the shoulder heals.
I’ll never be a power lifter. I know I’ll never put up the huge numbers that I read about on T-Nation. But I will continue to lift as heavy as I can and as often as possible. I love that deep soreness you get after a great workout.
Carlsbad[/quote]
Carlsbad, great to have you post here. And I do find it quite inspirational for you to overcome your wrist injury and to be as strong as you are right now, especially considering you didn’t have the HUGE advantage of MUSCLE MEMORY that I and others on T-Nation have.
I have a wrist story (I have more injuries than I can even remember). Many shot putters get “shot putter’s wrist,” a wicked tendonitis caused obviously from repetitive flexion with a 16 pound ball of iron. It was bad, thoughout my college career, and I received probably 12-15 cortisone shots over this time to keep me able to throw. These shots, for me, were the worst shots I’ve ever had, as the doc would take a huge needle (about four inches long) and work it around all the different little bones in the wrist. It was brutal. I’ve had lots of cortisone shots elsewhere-shoulders, back, knee-but none of those came close to this particular misery.
One day, I went for my shot, and I hadn’t eaten well, and I was dreading the shot. As he started doing his torture, I remember my head feeling funny. The next thing I know, his nurse is wiping my face with a wet towel, and I find I am laying on the ground. I FAINTED! A 290 pound pussy! I never fainted, ever, before or since. Very embarassing.
But just wanted those other readers out there to know not to discount the wrist as a major injury, it can really suck. Doc
Doc, every time I have a heavy day I pay dearly the next day. All the days on the asphalt playing basketball in my 20’s. I rammed both knees into poles during dunking contests, no trophies just ego trips. My knees will not give me the flexibility needed for a 600# DL off the floor. In the rack it’s easy. My hands are really fucked, bone spurs, calcium deposits, weird callouses, etc.
What do old farts do? I’m waiting for my lunch settle and I’m heading to the gym. Trying to stone off some of the callouses. I’m due to pull off the callous from hell, it’s been 3 or 4 months. Hope everyone had a great turkey day. I cooked and ate like it was my last supper. It wasn’t, God’s got a sense of humor.
Barry, I was wondering why you don’t do more DL’s off the floor. Now I know. Damn, aren’t we all working around some damaged bodypart!
My biggest damaged bodypart, of course, may be my mind. Laugh, go ahead. But today there was further proof.
I went to the gym weighing 250 on the dot and feeling great. I thought I might pop up that 300 power clean I want today. I start my warm-up routine, and look, DAMN, there’s a girl doing lunges with an empty bar and a maxipad in the one and only Squat rack. I go and hover around, and she leaves, maybe my mixed BenGay/body odor did it. But then, after getting ready to clean, my Ipod battery dies. DAMN! Can’t have that, so I LEAVE THE GYM to go get batteries at a nearby pharmacy (This is a violation of one of the Ten Commandments-Thou shalt not leave the gym once the workout has commenced).
So I get back, and get my McGuivered wireless ipod headphones working, and start to do my power cleans. 135 feels like an empty bar, I'm rocking out to Godsmack and Spineshank, and right when I get to my 225 set, the battery in the wireless headphones dies. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There will be no music today for Dr. PC, except this soft Spanish techno/eighties mix they have playing overhead. Worse than silence.
So I begin my first heavy set, expecting to triple at 225. I get one, ONE, and it feels like 325. I feel like I turned into a 98 lb weakling in the blink of an Apple consipiracy. I prowl around the gym, trying to drum up some good rage, and do the following reps with 225-2,3,3,3,5. The only reason I got the five is I asked my son to slap me in the face, which he did lightly, and then I said harder, and he almost took me out.
I then did some clean pulls with 325 and 365 and then a DL triple with 425. Not a bad day, but nowhere near the great one that I expected. I must break my denial, and since there are no 12 step meetings nearby, I’ll just start here…Hi, I’m Dr. Power Clean, and I’m an addict (to ipod).
Have a nice weekend! Doc
I see where your problem is:
Here is the corrective action required:
For good days = Judas Priest
For great workout days = AC/DC
If you can’t put the weight up with “those about to rock” playin, it ain’t goin’ up.
[quote]hel320 wrote:
I see where your problem is:
Here is the corrective action required:
For good days = Judas Priest
For great workout days = AC/DC
If you can’t put the weight up with “those about to rock” playin, it ain’t goin’ up.
[/quote]
Well, you might have a point. I may have strayed too far from my roots, listening to the new stuff. No worries, though, I have a playlist full of AC/DC, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Led Zepellin, Hendrix, B.O.C., and many others from those wonderful days.
Judas Priest's "The Rage" is one of my top five all time songs for lifting. Doc