I think it’s all HRT and injuries. I’d like to see people ask questions about how to get back into lifting, what to do when they can’t make the gains they used to, why can’t they eat pizza every day anymore? You know, stuff we learned in our 30s. I spend most of my time in the beginner section. Every now and then someone asks something I can help out with.
Without your posts I probably wouldn’t bother with this section anymore.
Stu
Congrats, Stu, you are my 200th reply, which is a higher number than the total of threads on this section. You win a free block of chaulk-oops, sorry, customs confiscated it thinking it was cocaine. (True).
Also true is what you said. “All HRT and injuries.” I’m in no way dissing on HRT, but my early enthusiasm for it has been tamed by loss of initial response, need for two more drugs (A.I. plus HCG), and the usual doctor issues (I want Adex, doc insists I try HGH again even though I QUIT it because it gives me increased joint pain and carpal tunnel syndrome. Two weeks of low dose HGH and I couldn’t clean an empty barbell. Not for me.)
Yeah, I love the younger posters and threads, but I got another harsh reminder of the fact that even if I can keep up with many of them strength wise, I can’t train like them. Some of them squat four days a week or more, one guy twice in a day. If I tried that, I wouldn’t be able to walk.
I’ll try and keep this thread fresh with other aspects of being an older lifter. The mental side obviously fascinates me, as the drive to train and eat right day after day, month after month, is not an easy thing for me, and I’m a fanatic! I think we each have to find whatever little passion that pulls us off the recliner and into the gym. For me, for now, OL is just a riot. Just the thought of this near 51 year old carcass doing squat snatches and C@J’s is to me somehow both funny and exciting. I can see my gains in strength are slowing down, the early rapid progress was as much due to muscle memory as it was physiologic T levels. So now my gains in flexibility I can take pride in as “all my doing.”
So maybe that’s just one example, we can get far more flexible at this age than we think is possible. Other things of interest are how to train with your son, how to eat right and eat with your family, how to balance time spent training, and time at work and with family or friends. How many of you have a sick or dying parent that needs you? I do. There really are lots of issues that affect us older lifters that twenty-somethings don’t have to think about.
I’ll keep this this going, I’ll do my part. This thread has been therapy for me, and many of you have been MY shrink. Doc
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Congrats, Stu, you are my 200th reply, which is a higher number than the total of threads on this section. You win a free block of chaulk-oops, sorry, customs confiscated it thinking it was cocaine. (True).
Also true is what you said. “All HRT and injuries.” I’m in no way dissing on HRT, but my early enthusiasm for it has been tamed by loss of initial response, need for two more drugs (A.I. plus HCG), and the usual doctor issues (I want Adex, doc insists I try HGH again even though I QUIT it because it gives me increased joint pain and carpal tunnel syndrome. Two weeks of low dose HGH and I couldn’t clean an empty barbell. Not for me.)
Yeah, I love the younger posters and threads, but I got another harsh reminder of the fact that even if I can keep up with many of them strength wise, I can’t train like them. Some of them squat four days a week or more, one guy twice in a day. If I tried that, I wouldn’t be able to walk.
I’ll try and keep this thread fresh with other aspects of being an older lifter. The mental side obviously fascinates me, as the drive to train and eat right day after day, month after month, is not an easy thing for me, and I’m a fanatic! I think we each have to find whatever little passion that pulls us off the recliner and into the gym. For me, for now, OL is just a riot. Just the thought of this near 51 year old carcass doing squat snatches and C@J’s is to me somehow both funny and exciting. I can see my gains in strength are slowing down, the early rapid progress was as much due to muscle memory as it was physiologic T levels. So now my gains in flexibility I can take pride in as “all my doing.”
So maybe that’s just one example, we can get far more flexible at this age than we think is possible. Other things of interest are how to train with your son, how to eat right and eat with your family, how to balance time spent training, and time at work and with family or friends. How many of you have a sick or dying parent that needs you? I do. There really are lots of issues that affect us older lifters that twenty-somethings don’t have to think about.
I’ll keep this this going, I’ll do my part. This thread has been therapy for me, and many of you have been MY shrink. Doc[/quote]
Hi Doc,
I see you mentioned carpel tunnel and I was curious how long it took to subside after HGH? I have been off of GH for months now and I am still experiencing numbness. And it’s not just in my head. All joking aside, it is waking me up at night and both forearms are numb.
And yeah, this is a good thread. I have to admit that I feel weak reading the weights you guys throw around. But I am motivated to eat right and feel better about myself. As you’ve probably seen, I am off the xanax for 11 days and today is the best I’ve felt. I just assumed I would be on xanax for the rest of my life. And hearing the nightmare stories of withdrawal scared the crap out of me. I must have gotten lucky as it wasn’t that bad. And I was on 4mg ed for 6yrs. I have to admit that trazodone helped me sleep which I’m sure helped immensely.
Thanks
olderguy,
Regarding the carpal tunnel, 80-90% of the pain and numbness went away after two weeks off of HGH. However, I’m not totally convinced it all went away yet, as I still have much stiffer and painful wrists after heavy OL work, and it’s been over three months off. What a price to pay for a one month trial of 2iu HGH per day for a month, huh? Well, I agreed to the trial, I accept the fallout. Oddly enough, I’m still reading about it and other “peptides”, looking for a longshot fix for my atrophic gastrocs (from nerve damage.)
Regarding your getting off Xanax, you have my respect and admiration. In the eighties, psychiatrists were giddy with this new Benzodiazepine, the KING of the benzo's it was called, supposedly less addictive than Valium and supposedly having strong anti-depressant effects. This not just from the drug reps, but my professors in the Psych Department as well.
Hah. Just another short term fix pill that turns into a long problem pill. Even though I was careful, and tried many strategies to get people off when they were ready, 90% of people on daily Xanax could not get off it. The nightmare stories you've heard are true. Be proud of what you've done, it's more important than a 280 lb power clean. Doc
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
olderguy,
Regarding the carpal tunnel, 80-90% of the pain and numbness went away after two weeks off of HGH. However, I’m not totally convinced it all went away yet, as I still have much stiffer and painful wrists after heavy OL work, and it’s been over three months off. What a price to pay for a one month trial of 2iu HGH per day for a month, huh? Well, I agreed to the trial, I accept the fallout. Oddly enough, I’m still reading about it and other “peptides”, looking for a longshot fix for my atrophic gastrocs (from nerve damage.)
Regarding your getting off Xanax, you have my respect and admiration. In the eighties, psychiatrists were giddy with this new Benzodiazepine, the KING of the benzo's it was called, supposedly less addictive than Valium and supposedly having strong anti-depressant effects. This not just from the drug reps, but my professors in the Psych Department as well.
Hah. Just another short term fix pill that turns into a long problem pill. Even though I was careful, and tried many strategies to get people off when they were ready, 90% of people on daily Xanax could not get off it. The nightmare stories you've heard are true. Be proud of what you've done, it's more important than a 280 lb power clean. Doc[/quote]
I think what might have helped me was my taking pregnenolone, 100mg ed. I have read where that works with gaba and it inhibits xanax’s effect. Perhaps I was going thru withdrawal over the last 4 mo. You would know better than me.
But yes, I glad that monkey is off my back and I can start getting back to my sense of normality, whatever that is.
Thanks again,
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Back to posting a workout. Here’s another Dr. Power Clean special, I really can’t make this stuff up, it just happens:
Today I have planned to do clean and jerks, the full lift for the first time in ages. Shoulder feels up to it.
Have several annoying business calls I have to make before I can lift, and the storm clouds are brewing outside, remember I have an outdoor platform only.
I finally get out there, and after my warm-ups, it starts to rain. Shit! But I decide I am GOING TO WORKOUT, PERIOD. But as the platform is quickly soaked and slippery, I change plans to power cleans and push presses. OK. So I get started:
5x95
3x135
Then, at this point, my Great Dane gets loose from inside the house and wants to come play with me. This is bad, because when he is full of energy, he gets “the willies” and runs around crazy. I can’t catch him in this state. I load up 155, and as I start my leg drive for the push press, he runs right at me from behind, and I move slightly forward, and cram that 155 into my chin. Lucky I still have most of my tongue. But now I am really pissed, and in addition, the gentle rain turns into a monsoon. I run after the dog screaming and yelling and he finally sits down in fear. I clean and carry him into the house.
1x175 (his weight, hey it counts as a rep)
Fortunately, at least that weight was right in my progression.
Now I move to 185, water is two inches deep. I do a double. I am NOT going to quit, and I am SO PISSED OFF from the rain and the dog that I figure the adrenalin will help offset the bad conditions.
1x205 solid, shoulder holding up but tightening up now. And now my Ipod malfunctions from the rain, I put it inside, the last song in my head is Cry of the Black Birds by Amon Amarth (death metal-very appropriate to my mood.)
Water now up to my ankles, wife and maid begging me to come in. I growl at them just like Amon Amarth growls.
0x225 Crap. No leg drive and bar feels awkward on my shoulders.
0x225 Worse. Really pissed. Then I remember Reza and the other big boys moving their grip out farther than I was trained to. I try moving mine out two inches. Feels weird.
1x225. Solid. I hold that weight up for about a minute, like Dimas showing off. I drop the weight, and it goes right through that soaked platform like that Shane Hammond commercial.
It ain’t no great weight, I know, but this workout meant a lot to me. I can lift overhead again, and I showed some mental toughness today that I think I have been lacking in the past month.
But now not only my wife is convinced I’m crazy after all, but so is the maid. At least my dog and I made up. Doc[/quote]
f’kin’ A! Now we know what committment looks like!
Thanks, Eugen Sandow Skidmark. I will probably lift more than I did in that “Jerking In The Rain” workout some day, but I doubt I’ll ever have a more memorable workout.
Now, on to a topic related to mental toughness, “CNS Fatigue.” This term was not around in my prime, but these days gets used everyday. It obviously refers to some deleterious mental state induced by specific types of overtraining, like going for PR’s too often or too much daily intensity in your workouts. I think there’s much more to it, so I’ve compiled my “Top Ten Reasons Why Dr. Powerclean suffers CNS fatigue.”
1. Trying to pay bills when there’s no money in the bank account.
2. Playing three hours of Halo 3 with my son, who leads me to believe I’m decent at it before destroying me at the end.
3. Trying to keep my lovely wife of twenty years happy during menopause.
4. Bilingual blues. My bad spanish causes me to do things like ask for “dos pechos, por favor” at KFC, which means “Two Boobs, please.”
5. Keeping my record of 20 years fidelity intact with rising T levels and many pretty senoritas with nice “pechos” around.
6. Replanning retirement after the real estate collapse in Florida.
7. Pretending to be a Colts or Cowboys fan while the Dolphins are 0-8.
8. Estradiol.
9. Global Warming
10. Wondering if I’m spending too much time reading and posting on T-Nation.
Time to work out. Later.........Doc
Today’s workout will no doubt contribute to my CNS fatigue.
Bench
2x5x135
5x185
3x205
3x225
Quit here, good for maybe 255x3, but first benches in six weeks due to shoulder. It felt better today.
OL DL’s
5x135
5x225
5x275
3x315
3x365
2x405
1x425
1x440PR
1x460 Got stuck, again, four inches off floor. I really had no business going up this high anyway, as 225 felt heavy today, but I’m a knucklehead who always gets caught up in the moment.
DB curls
5 sets 8x40
Tri pushdowns
5 sets 8x70-100
Lat pulldowns
5 sets 8x 170-200
Totally wiped by this workout, and really felt I was fighting myself the whole time. But my joints held up nicely, this is encouraging.
Doc
Dead today, as expected after yesterday’s workout. Took some time reading other threads and articles. Thought I knew enough about stretching after five years of PT’s giving me their endless theories on static, dynamic, ballistic and PNF stretching.
However, I really was impressed at the Static stretching thread with links, which convinces me to modify some of what I am doing, including the timing of stretching (pre vs. post workout, vs rest day stretching).
There really is no end to self improvement in this game. Doc
Today I had a good workout, I posted it on Koing’s thread. Basically worked legs and squat cleans, and set a CPR squat clean of 120 kgs. I was really tired afterwards. The last three workouts I needed an hour afterward to lay in a vegetative state, as my body gets spent. I like it, but I also realize I need some lighter workouts. Without question, I find heavy OL and deadlift workouts far more draining to the CNS than bodybuilding type workouts, even intense ones.
And I notice a pattern, I feel sort of bad in the beginnings, seemingly permanently stiff and achy all over, I get loose mid-workout, I get adrenalin kicking in late workout, I go PR hunting, usually get one, and then after I am totally wiped and feel old.
I’m not going to overthink this one, �?'m just going to keep getting in better and better condition, and I’ll do better in periodizing my near 1RM training. Doc
Doc - I’ve been drinking a homemade concoction that I truly believe gets me through my workout with a little more zip than without AND seems to aid in my recovery so I don’t feel totally spent afterwards. I take Accelerade or Endurox and spike it with a tablespoon each of glutamine and creatine.
I start sipping it 20 mins prior to workout AND constantly during my workout but only small sips. Placebo effect possibly , but still feel it helps my workout and recovery.
You know, QT, you’ve given me a good idea. I’m up to speed with the PWO nutrition, drinking a shake with a good protein powder, creatine and glutamine. Before a workout I take some caffeine, usually some coffee. But during the workout, I have been just drinking either water or at most a yellow gatordade, just like thirty years ago! lol
I'll put more thought into the Acceoerade/Endurox type products during the workout, and maybe get the creatine and glutamine in there sooner. Thanks. Doc
Doc, that was a hell of a workout you did 3 days ago (above), I reckon that’d have me sprawled on the ground writhing in pain for more than a few days afterwards, you seemed to pull up well though, so congrats. It’s always great to finish a tough session with nothing but the ‘good’ pain.
I seem to be attracting the conversation of the younger guys in my gym. That sounds weird… I mean the young fellas seem to enjoy talking to me quite a bit for some reason. I have to say I’m impressed with their level of respect for me. They can nearly all lift more than me but they seem to go out of their way to talk to me about various crap, it’s good, although disruptive to my sessions, but I enjoy the fact that they want to talk to me. I’m not a very sociable kind of guy - more the quiet, keep to myself type.
Just to share something - ‘twas my birthday yesterday and my father gave me a solid gold ring that was my great grandfathers’.
How stoked am I! However, when he gave it to me, he wasn’t being nasty but he said - “this was my grandfather’s, then my father’s, then mine, now I can pass it on to you, that’s 4 generations… I don’t know who you’re going to pass it on to though”
To explain - I don’t have kids of my own, I have step kids which he treats as his own grandchildren, but what he said really is cutting me deep…
I know that’s way off topic, sorry Doc, but the ‘mature’ guys on here might have some comments that’ll make me feel better, and your words are always enlightening.
Anyway, back on topic - 2nd last day of Waterbury’s SOB training for me, off the gym in 2 hours with the stepson…
cheers guys.
[quote]Duke wrote:
Doc, that was a hell of a workout you did 3 days ago (above), I reckon that’d have me sprawled on the ground writhing in pain for more than a few days afterwards, you seemed to pull up well though, so congrats. It’s always great to finish a tough session with nothing but the ‘good’ pain.
Just to share something - ‘twas my birthday yesterday and my father gave me a solid gold ring that was my great grandfathers’.
How stoked am I! However, when he gave it to me, he wasn’t being nasty but he said - “this was my grandfather’s, then my father’s, then mine, now I can pass it on to you, that’s 4 generations… I don’t know who you’re going to pass it on to though”
To explain - I don’t have kids of my own, I have step kids which he treats as his own grandchildren, but what he said really is cutting me deep…
cheers guys.[/quote]
I wasn’t going to post today, nothing much to say, but I’m always glad to respond to you, Duke.
As to my workout the other day, I have this masochistic streak. The fifteen sets after the 460DL were “punishment” for missing the lift. I was already spent, but I made myself do them. See, I’m still a little nuts.
Some exercises I am recovering from much better than others. I was surprised I could lift with one day rest after the heavy DL workout. However, after that short workout yesterday with the PR squat clean, I am more sore and spent today than I have been in a long time. It's mostly just my legs and hips, they are relatively weak and when I kill them they kill me back. Maybe I'll bench tomorrow or nothing at all.
Regarding your family "issue." Although I have a son, I have almost no other family, just a wife and a dying Mom. So I understand a certain feeling of emptiness that these kinds of situations can bring. It seems to me that we are always given the opportunity to look at less than optimal situations with one of two perspecitives. A. This really sucks and there's nothing I can do about it. or B. Maybe there's something else I can do.
In the case of your family "heirloom," it is still 100% clear it is your decision to make regarding who to pass it on to. I would guess your life will take you to some moment where there will be someone you really care about, even love, that you can pass it on to. Blood doesn't mean everything.
I once gave a beloved, loyal secretary of mine a family heirloom-a medal my father had earned in Nam, because to me she had earned it. She had my back for ten years, protected me from all the stalkers and other loons who wanted to invade my personal life, and kept an ear to the ground regarding hospital and doctor politics. She was a stoic Norwegian who never cried, but this time she did. It made ME feel great.
Your Dad’s cutting comments you gotta let go. Sounds like someone needs to go for a deadlift PR. Doc
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Your Dad’s cutting comments you gotta let go. Sounds like someone needs to go for a deadlift PR. Doc
[/quote]
Thanks for the answer Doc. I guess time will help me get over it. Perhaps he just hit a nerve with me. Or perhaps he just confirmed what I thought… he is upset that I haven’t had kids.
Either way, the answer is still the same, get over it…soon.
Duke, I feel for ya. I have 2 sons and due to a nasty divorce they rarely speak to me or anyone in my family. I doubt your dad meant for the comment to be a dagger. I took my youngest to the gym about a year ago. He told me he would follow me during the workout. He was 20 at the time. A youngster from the gym told him there’s no way you’re hanging with him. I tried to take it easy but after 20 minutes, he was riding a bike. We haven’t been back. You’ll find someone who’s worthy when it’s time to pass it on, you may not even know that person right now. How about one of my quotes:
Faith consists in believing when it is beyond the power of reason to believe.
Voltaire
Have a great weekend, Train Hard.
Pulled a quad muscle squat cleaning Thursday, worse today than yesterday oddly enough. But I was up for lifting, just did a near total upper body workout.
Weight this morning was 248-but BF up to 18%. Shit, my bulking up is not going so great. But GOD, I love to eat.
Warm up, dynamic stretching plus treadmill
Bench press
Six sets up to 3x245.
Military press
Six sets up to 2x165. Left shoulder acting up again, so much for pain free.
delt/rotator exercises
4 sets 10x 30 side laterals leaning forward to get more posterior
3 sets lying rotator laterals with 8 lbs (yes, eight, these are pure rehab)
Lat pulldowns(old fashioned pulley with real weights at other end, I loved it.)
5 sets up to 8x225
DB curls
5 sets, including 3x8x50 (vein sighting)
Tri pushdowns (I know, but skullcrushers hurt my elbows worse)
5 sets, 8-10x 90
plus 3 sets crunches and hypers with BW
Long workout, sweat buckets, but not wiped afterward-bodybuilding exercises don’t flatten me out the way OL/PL steamrolls me. I think it just dawned on me why. Remember, from 23 to 46, I did “bodybuilding lite,” my Men’s Health phase. It’s old hat for me, even if I work it hard. Doc
I don’t want to digress from Doc’s thread topic but thanks Barry and thanks to BigDawg for the private message, you’re both very kind people with good advice.
Doing reps of 20 DL’s I felt a twinge in my lower back yesterday. I immediately dropped the bar and stopped training. It’s worsened today but it should come right in a week or so I feel.
Reminded me of an article I read on here where it was recommended NOT to do high reps of deads.
I know what happened, I lost form towards the end of the third set of 20 and bang!
Lesson learnt, no more high reps for deads and squats for me. I’ll stick with more sets and maintain my focus on form through shorter reps.
Looks like I’ll have to modify my training for a week or two, might do a specialisation stage for delts/arms or something until the back recovers.
Another big workout Doc, sticking with BB style for a while or returning to OL/PL?
Are 20-rep DL’s some new kind of Tabata cardio?
Dr. PowerClean, you are strong! If I ever figure out my right shoulder impingement, maybe I’ll be increasing the bench.
About your lat PD, is that on a real Lat Pulldown equipment, or did you rig your own (you mentioned the real weights on the other end of the cable through a pulley).
BD
[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
Are 20-rep DL’s some new kind of Tabata cardio?
Dr. PowerClean, you are strong! If I ever figure out my right shoulder impingement, maybe I’ll be increasing the bench.
About your lat PD, is that on a real Lat Pulldown equipment, or did you rig your own (you mentioned the real weights on the other end of the cable through a pulley).
BD[/quote]
Duke’s high reps are part of his trying out Chad Waterbury’s S.O.B. training system. I’ve read up on it, as well as H.I.I.T, Crossfit, and a bunch of others I knew nothing about when I started my comeback. I see people even advocating “Century Sets,” 100 rep sets. All this reading gave me lots of ideas but also confusion. I poked fun at rep numbers on a recent post on Koing’s OL thread, I thought it was funny, but those young bucks take me too seriously. Not everybody gets my quirky sense of humor.
Big Dawg, that was a real Lat machine, the kind they had when I was 20, where at the weight end of the pulley there was an empty two feet of Olympic size bar ends and you load up real weight. When I got to 5 45lb plates (225), a few sets of 8 really practically ripped my lats off my body. I loved it. It just feels different than the modern “plug and play” machines. In these third world gyms I visit, I never know what I’m gonna find. A few of the best and many of the worst pieces of excercise equipment ever.
It’s nice to be recovering my bench slowly (I did over 400 in college), but with my shoulders I’ll be lucky to do 315 again. I’m afraid I think benches are the hardest exercise on shoulders there is. Something about the mechanics of it combined with the ability to use more weight on benching than anything else we do with our shoulders really kills rotators and other parts.
I really am still focused on OL, Duke, but I have to recover my upper body strength or I’ll never jerk what I clean again. Plus, I’m trying to add some muscular weight right now (I got so sick of four months of calorie restriction/clean diet that I’m allowing myself to eat like a man again. Fuck Yeah. See how I rationalized a “bulking phase?” Sorry…I guess I love to eat a little too much. lol Doc