[quote]rainjack wrote:
Everyone wants to make this about personal attacks - it’s not. It’s simply about someone stepping up and admitting his hypocisy.
I seriously doubt that will happen. But that is the only issue that I have presented in the last several posts.
[/quote]
You have no point. I called you no names. I didn’t label you as anything. If you were to quote me word for word you would see that instead of trying to makeup what you think I wrote.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Everyone wants to make this about personal attacks - it’s not. It’s simply about someone stepping up and admitting his hypocisy.
I seriously doubt that will happen. But that is the only issue that I have presented in the last several posts.
You have no point. I called you no names. I didn’t label you as anything. If you were to quote me word for word you would see that instead of trying to makeup what you think I wrote.[/quote]
Or is it quoting what you think you wrote?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You have no point. I called you no names. I didn’t label you as anything. If you were to quote me word for word you would see that instead of trying to makeup what you think I wrote.[/quote]
Just because you say I have no point does not make it so. This is not neverland. I showed you what I was referring to. I used your own words to explain the hypocrisy you are displaying.
Why do I need to quote you word for word when those very words are posted just a few spots above?
If you want to get into a semantics game, that’s fine. I have no desire to debate the meaning of “is”. I think you’ve more than made my point for me.
I agree with you RJ, it is not always about personal attacks. I didn’t mean to suggest that it is with you or anybody else. But once the tone gets confrontational, it does take on a more personal feeling than topic related.
Hell I agree with you alot more than not. I respect the strength with which you hold your convictions. Many on these sites just want to criticise others for their beliefs, while offering none of their own. Any time draw a line in the sand, someone’s on the other side. My statement was simply suggesting that Elk’s point was a valid one.
I again would state that these topics are very personal and emotional at times. This will be present in posts back and forth. I wouldn’t want to lose that because that is great that people have such strong emotions/opinions/beliefs wrt politics. In fact if more people would discuss rather than bury their heads in the sand, our country would be a better place.
Conflict isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but lacking the desire to find commonality and understanding is. If it is always gonna be “this is the only way it can be” not much will get accomplished.
Brother E. wrote:
“You don’t like, dare I say you despise him, because 1. he has a viewpoint that differs from yours and 2. He expresses that differing viewpoint intelligently which makes it harder for you to discredit.”
I don’t want to spend much time talking about pox. However, I think you are missing the point. Have you ever seen pox say something like, “point taken.” Or, “good post.”
The closest pox ever came to a true Conservative compliment would be acknowledging BB’s posting prowess.
Great!!!
It’s like saying the sun is bright.
No shit.
Have you ever heard the guy say “I hadn’t thought about it that way.” Or, “I disagree with you, but I value your opinion.”
Or, God help us, “I was wrong.”
Finally, take a peek at the nasty commentary that flows from this guy when people post their pics.
By the way, getting a name wrong one time doesn’t constitute an admission of fallibility.
Worse, this guy admits to not reading most of the posts he doesn’t agree with. Worse, if he reads any of them, he takes pieces and extrapolates.
“It’s frustrating for people that operate through intimidation when they have a person who isn’t scared of them and can rationally dismantle the bullies aggressive bellowing.”
Sorry, pal, most of us don’t think he is honorable or tough.
“I am not a blind sycophant of ProfX or Vroom. We just happen to be people that are like minded and I respect and admire the way they express their view points even if it differs from my own. I am not a religious person and the ProfX is, but I wholly respect how he can separate the two. He is firm in his beliefs, but doesn’t feel the need to preach them to me. That is the kind of thinking I can fully respect and the kind of person I would want to work with if the need arose.”
I don’t think they would return the compliment IF you disagreed with them.
Try it once in a while.
“Thats is what it’s about Rainjack trying to understand our differing viewpoints not screaming “you’re a fucking idiot, let me show you how fucking stupid you are,”. Try a different approach once in awhile and quit trying to slander ProfX just because he won’t tell you, you are right how could I have ever disagreed with you.”
You do know that much of Rainjack’s commentary is tongue in cheek? Right?
Most of his most outlandish commentary is him screwing around.
I certainly don’t think he is infalliable (no one is), but, honestly, there are times when he is just dicking around. Or he is using my tactic of pushing buttons to start discussions.
You have your right to an opinion, I hope you respect ours.
If not, do your own research. Look him up. Spend five minutes reading his posts. If you don’t agree with us, you may see where we are coming from.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m the last guy to accuse others of being an ass without acknowledging my own prick-dom. However, you will see me acknowledging and respecting other viewpoints (Makkun, Dean, you (once in a while).
pox does not.
JeffR
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Have you ever heard the guy say “I hadn’t thought about it that way.” Or, “I disagree with you, but I value your opinion.”
Or, God help us, “I was wrong.”
[/quote]
The last time I was challenged on this by Zeb, I posted the address of the last post in which I did this and acknowledged I was wrong. He had no response. Do I have to do the same with you just so you can stop making things up? When was the last time you posted that you were wrong? Please, let me know.
Jeff, come on of all people you talking about disrespecting others. I never posted, but I peeked in on your totally disrespectful taunting on the Greek Orthodox threads. You lost what little credibility you may have had with that. It really showed your true colors wrt to having respect for others beliefs.
I have actually begun to have a little (very little) liking for you and see that you express yourself with extreme sarcasm sprinkled with a dabbling (a very small dabbling) of reason at times. But, again a poster boy for understanding you are not.
I know rainman tempers a lot of his comments with sarcasm as well and it’s pretty easy to distinguish when that is happening and when he is showing his true emotions.
If we are going to psycho analyze everyone here let’s in all fairness open ourselves up to it as well and in the spirit of understanding each other be as honest as we can with our own faults instead of pointing fingers.
To open up this dialogue I will say I am much like rainman and can be pretty unpleasant at times. I also if I feel like I am being attacked will unload with both barrels, but this has a tendency of blowing back up in my face and making me look like an ass.
Some of the people that refrain from this type of emotional behavior on both sides that I can think of are ProfX, Hedo, Jack Zep, Sasquatch, Vroom, BB, this is a hard one for me to say but Thunder at times.
In my view the liberals or left thinking people make an attempt to see the whole picture but still remain true to their beliefs while those on the right don’t make much of an attempt (not all I guess the extremists of both sides) to see the other point of view while remaining fanatically true to their beliefs.
I meant Zap Branigan, not Jack Zep, my mistake. I just wanted to make that clear. I respect Zap’s effort to look at all sides rationally.
Brother E.,
Thanks for the response.
I did state that I admit to my prickdom. I am also wrong on occassion, and have said things that I shouldn’t.
However, to be fair to me, please go read stellar-hor’s posts. That guy gives you liberals ammunition. The whole “religious nutcases” running the Republican party comes directly from him.
“Only one Truth” my ASS!!!
You’ll find that I attracted plenty of different allies from all over the spectrum who were offended by that guy’s preaching. I don’t apologize for one second for using extreme sarcasm on that guy.
You will also find that he followed me around making nasty commentary afterward. I’ve shown him to be the exact opposite of the “turn the other cheek” that he professes. The hypocrisy is what drives many of us from organized religion.
Let’s analyze pox’s response to my post to prove some of my contentions:
“The last time I was challenged on this by Zeb, I posted the address of the last post in which I did this and acknowledged I was wrong. He had no response. Do I have to do the same with you just so you can stop making things up?”
Pox didn’t do more than skim my post or he would not have written this paragraph.
Please read my post above where I said this:
“By the way, getting a name wrong one time doesn’t constitute an admission of fallibility.”
He knows that the only error he has ever acknowledged is when he got the name of a bodybuilder wrong.
That is an obvious objective error that took exactly zero sack to admit to. It didn’t show respect to the efforts of people who disagree with him.
Pox went on to say this:
“When was the last time you posted that you were wrong? Please, let me know.”
Now this is just laziness. He knows full well that I acknowledged not knowing all the ins and outs of the Patriot Act. He had an absolute orgasm when I stated I wasn’t sure about every detail.
If he had read my posts, he would have also noticed that I have admitted several errors since then.
In summary, I don’t really care if Mr. Chip on his shoulder wants to throw his considerable weight around.
I do care that you would feel comfortable allying yourself with him.
JeffR
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
I meant Zap Branigan, not Jack Zep, my mistake. I just wanted to make that clear. I respect Zap’s effort to look at all sides rationally. [/quote]
Thanks, I try. I have been called a liberal and conservative on this board.
How does that old Indian saying go, you can tell the greatness of a warrior by how much energy is spent by his adversaries trying to take him down.
I think that applies to Vroom and ProfX, I see a lot of people expending a lot of energy trying to discredit those two.
Hey, Jeff, you know what I don’t care for Bush, I didn’t agree with going into Iraq, and I don’t care for the hard core evangalical right or neocons.
I do like to fish, hunt, lift, hot looking women, laughing at a good joke, hanging out with good friends and listening to good music.
Do you think we could still be friends even if the first three dislikes don’t change?
Hey, I’ll borrow one from the good book… instead of looking at the spec in your neighbors eye take out the log in your own.
I have no problem throwing my chips in with the good ProfX and if you would show a little more reason and maturity instead of a childish need to be right all the time, I would feel comfortable throwing my chips in your corner as well.
Jeff
Why do you care who others ally themselves with? You have no trouble allying yourself with others who think like yourself, so why not afford others the same.
This whole us against them is not furthering discussion on these topics. It is, in fact, lowering the bar in most of these threads. No longer can someone state their opinion because there is always someone waiting to challenge it merely because of who he is and what leanings he has shown.
I agree with what many have said here and that is that you can be conservative, as I believe myself to be, yet fall in line with a liberal stance on certain subjects.
I like President Bush, but feel stem cell research could be a valuable medical tool. I would never be in favor of repealing W v.R wrt abortion.
To discount someone because of their perceived political bias with no further investigation into their claims or opinions is shorting that individual and yourself as well. And each claim or opinion or post should be viewed as seperate and distinct. I’m willing to step up and say I’m guilty as hell on this crap, I’m not pointing fingers. What I’m trying to say is these discussions will soon come to a stand still–like the Senate–if we can’t all put aside our political agendas and truly opine on these issues.
We should all get a do-over
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
How does that old Indian saying go, you can tell the greatness of a warrior by how much energy is spent by his adversaries trying to take him down.
[/quote]
It’s not my mission to take down my adversaries. I think I am right - until I am proven wrong. There is little in the way of proof offered from any of the partisans on here - even you, Elk.
“In my view the liberals or left thinking people make an attempt to see the whole picture but still remain true to their beliefs while those on the right don’t make much of an attempt (not all I guess the extremists of both sides) to see the other point of view while remaining fanatically true to their beliefs.”
Blaming the right for all the ills of the political thread is hardly openminded and free thinking. In fact it’s little more than partisan hackery. But it is fine for you to say such things because you are liberal. Bullshit.
ProfessorX has been challenged numerous times to admit his hypocrisy, or evben admit he’s made a bigger mistake than getting a BBer’s name wrong. That does not make the valiant warrior you have him painted as.
This is a political forum. It is partisan by its very nature. There will be fights. A lot of them.
Pick a thread on here longer than a page and I’ll show you a fight. If you don’t like the nature of the forum, find somewhere else to post.
The thing that the left is in dire need of is a sense of humor. You guys aren’t funny. And you get your panties wadded up over nothing more than a sarcastic post.
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Some of the people that refrain from this type of emotional behavior on both sides that I can think of are ProfX, Hedo, Jack Zep, Sasquatch, Vroom, BB, this is a hard one for me to say but Thunder at times.
In my view the liberals or left thinking people make an attempt to see the whole picture but still remain true to their beliefs while those on the right don’t make much of an attempt (not all I guess the extremists of both sides) to see the other point of view while remaining fanatically true to their beliefs. [/quote]
you’re joking, right?
Elkhntr1 wrote:
“How does that old Indian saying go, you can tell the greatness of a warrior by how much energy is spent by his adversaries trying to take him down.”
I like this one. It means I am one FANTASTIC SOB!!!
“I think that applies to Vroom and ProfX, I see a lot of people expending a lot of energy trying to discredit those two.”
I contend they do that on their own.
“Hey, Jeff, you know what I don’t care for Bush, I didn’t agree with going into Iraq, and I don’t care for the hard core evangalical right or neocons.”
True. Yet you’ve toned down the hatred and we’ve been able to have reasonable discussions.
“I do like to fish, hunt, lift, hot looking women, laughing at a good joke, hanging out with good friends and listening to good music.”
Do you think we could still be friends even if the first three dislikes don’t change?"
Yes. As long as you continue to read and acknowledge that other people may differ from you. Further, using a little deference and some humility helps things along.
“Hey, I’ll borrow one from the good book… instead of looking at the spec in your neighbors eye take out the log in your own.”
Ok. However, when I think of stellar-hor I like this quote better.
Oh, everything’s too damned expensive these days. This Bible cost 15 bucks! And talk about a preachy book! Everybody’s a sinner! Except this guy.
–Homer Simpson
“I have no problem throwing my chips in with the good ProfX and if you would show a little more reason and maturity instead of a childish need to be right all the time, I would feel comfortable throwing my chips in your corner as well.”
Hey now!!! Ok, I am right all the time. I admit it.
Seriously, it would be an interesting development if you and I agreed on a topic.
I’ll be watching!!!
JeffR
Oh, jeez, silly me, I didn’t realize you were just being sarcastic all this time rainman. How uptight of me to get bothered by anything you have said. I now realize that this forum belongs to you and I had better go find somewhere else to post.
I will be sure to tell anyone who wants to come here to do a search and pull up your posts. That way they can make sure they agree with with before having the audacity to present any thing that may not coincide with your vision. If they don’t fall in line with your beliefs, I will be sure to tell them to look elsewhere as this is your domain.
"It’s not my mission to take down my adversaries. I think I am right - until I am proven wrong. There is little in the way of proof offered from any of the partisans on here - even you, Elk. "
I forgot that you aren’t accountable for anything. It is our job to prove you wrong but alas you are never wrong, so we must now desist from this impossible chore.
(Joe, this is your queue to come in with a quick one or two liner showing your undying loyalty to rainman)
rainman, if I have have the grace of enlightenment bestowed upon me I will come back and visit you maybe we could talk then.
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
(Joe, this is your queue to come in with a quick one or two liner showing your undying loyalty to rainman)
[/quote]
Elk, I already told you I don’t want to argue with you any more…maybe you didn’t see it–but any fan of Jeremiah Johnson is a damn good bro–no matter who he votes for.
I do wonder why you’re carrying water for Professor X though, he’s big enough to answer for himself.
I guess that makes YOU more of a man, huh?
(I’m complimenting you…don’t ruin the mood 
)
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Oh, jeez, silly me, I didn’t realize you were just being sarcastic all this time rainman. How uptight of me to get bothered by anything you have said. I now realize that this forum belongs to you and I had better go find somewhere else to post. [/quote]
Whether you get upset over what I say is really out of my hands. I was referring to a specific post I made yesterday that started all this crap. If you take offense to something I’ve said - just like yesterday - I will apologize. Or do you not rmember that?
I know it must be hard to know what’s going on what with your nose shoved so far up Prof’s ass like it is.
When have I ever begged, or demanded anyone to agree with me? I believe I said if you are going to get upset over the bravado down here, maybe you should find somewhere else to post - but I’m sure someone will correct me if I misquoted myself.
The last I checked, that was the basic idea behind debate. Take a side and prove your side. I’m not giving up my positions/opinions/beliefs just because it might make you feel all warm and fuzzy. If you can prove me wrong I lose.
I never told you to desist from debate. You are the one that is seeming to tire of it - to the point that we should all just get along. That’s not the way things run down here. For the most part there is always a debate on every thread. By it’s very nature - there is conflict.
See my above reference to Prof’s ass and your nose, and exactly where is it that you find room to talk about other’s undying loyalty?
[quote]rainman, if I have have the grace of enlightenment bestowed upon me I will come back and visit you maybe we could talk then.
[/quote]
How about when you get your panties unwadded? We had a pretty good run of getting along. I hate to see that go by the wayside. But it’s really up to you.
Jesus, Joe, as someone who is apparently not to be named, I must tell you that you don’t really get what people are saying to you.
I wasn’t talking about your argument style at all, but your attempts to please everybody on both sides of the fence.
Look, I agreed with you. You are now my friend. Oh oh, that pissed off so and so. Look, I disagreed with him, are you my friend now? Oh oh, the first person is mad again, let me find a point of agreement so we’ll be friends.
Damnation. If you want to claim to have an opinion, then stake out your claim and defend it. Also, it would be nice if you learned the difference between real insults and casual good humor insults. You tend to throw out some pretty heavy stuff and then think a joke the next day erases it.
Personally, I do a lot of “investigation”, however, the threads rarely result in good discussion to the point that I feel it worth trying to state an opinion. People get “upset” because I won’t state an opinion? How often does anybody simply ask for it? Almost never! They’d rather assume my opinion because I’m busy prying apart poor logic or inconsistent principles.
This is really what I see in ProfX’s posts, consistent and relentless logic applied to posts that don’t follow this standard. You aren’t seeing the Prof push an agenda, you are seeing him rip apart poor thinking.
Don’t like it? Well, damn, sorry, but your thinking is crappy. Come up with good reasons and arguments and it will stop happening.
Grumble grumble.
so the current scorecard is:
Joe likes RainJack (not in a powda/foopa way either.)
Joe would very much like to like Elk.
Elk and RainJack did manage to get along.
Elk and Joe did too.
RJ and Joe would like to still get along with Elk.
That means…the next move is Elk’s, right?