AFC Guide to Women

Off Topic
61

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So glad I’m married!

That women stuff seems so very, very complicated…

I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]

I don’t know, because that “simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect” thing seems to be working a charm for me, even in modern days. I have someone well able to provide, who makes my toes curl and who is proving to be a very good friend indeed. I’d rather spend time with him than anyone else, though I enjoy my girlfriends and workmates too.

62

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So glad I’m married!

That women stuff seems so very, very complicated…

I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]

I don’t know, because that “simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect” thing seems to be working a charm for me, even in modern days. I have someone well able to provide, who makes my toes curl and who is proving to be a very good friend indeed. I’d rather spend time with him than anyone else, though I enjoy my girlfriends and workmates too.

[/quote]

Do you think in this day and age, that a man in his 20’s would be able to exhibit the same traits? I highly doubt it. PEOPLE evolve (assuming a positive trajectory is established early enough). A man in his 20’s is LITERALLY “half” the man he will become in his 40’s - in personality, experience, assets, etc… His market value goes up exponentially.

A woman’s reproductive/market value goes DOWN as she gets older. Not saying there aren’t ANY “MILF’s” out there, but often times a woman who is in “decline” is at odds with how to deal with it and is often a bitter, castrating bitch. There are of course exceptions to this.

Integrity and self respect are important, but it’s not something that many people have at a younger age these days. Again, there are exceptions! But the pickings are slim.

64

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Something I’ve wondered about: Why would a guy want to spend time with a woman who does these alleged “shit tests?”

That just doesn’t sound like someone worth investing anything in.[/quote]

I’ve never met a woman (at least one that I would fuck) who did NOT do some kind of shit test…

65

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So glad I’m married!

That women stuff seems so very, very complicated…

I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]

I don’t know, because that “simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect” thing seems to be working a charm for me, even in modern days. I have someone well able to provide, who makes my toes curl and who is proving to be a very good friend indeed. I’d rather spend time with him than anyone else, though I enjoy my girlfriends and workmates too.

[/quote]

Do you think in this day and age, that a man in his 20’s would be able to exhibit the same traits? I highly doubt it. PEOPLE evolve (assuming a positive trajectory is established early enough). A man in his 20’s is LITERALLY “half” the man he will become in his 40’s - in personality, experience, assets, etc… His market value goes up exponentially.

A woman’s reproductive/market value goes DOWN as she gets older. Not saying there aren’t ANY “MILF’s” out there, but often times a woman who is in “decline” is at odds with how to deal with it and is often a bitter, castrating bitch. There are of course exceptions to this.

Integrity and self respect are important, but it’s not something that many people have at a younger age these days. Again, there are exceptions! But the pickings are slim.[/quote]

I don’t know what to say, AC, except that my experience has been very different from what you describe. I only date high earning men relative to my location. The only exception was the creepy hunter guy - a rebound from Tim, who was in local government here and who’d previously been on faculty at a US News top 25 college.

I only date fit men. Not buff, though the creepy hunter guy was that, but in decent shape and athletically inclined. Men who have a sport and practice it. Doesn’t matter what it is. Hockey could lose some weight, but he’s middle aged and can and does lead an active recreational life.

All the men I went out with were at the height of their earning power, age wise. I had at least two dates with a geologist, a financier (the smart guy I didn’t like kissing), a software designer, doctor, an architect, and Hockey, who is an engineer - all men who were in decent - very good shape.

I’m still bewildered by the crazy good luck I had. I’m certainly on the decline and am not beautiful. But here I am. I can only make of it that men don’t all want what you want. Well, clearly the ones who want me don’t.

Chushin reports that back in the olden days he had the same experience I had last year, and from the other side of the aisle (he’s a boy and was in his youth, presumably).

What do you make of that? I’m asking honestly. My experience has been so far removed from my expectation given all I’d read about women my age on these pages.

Edit: “I only date high earning men” sounds avaricious. I select for intelligence and earnings tend to follow. Money isn’t something I select for, though debt-free became important to me after Tim because I decided debt speaks to impulsiveness and poor self-control and I was sick of men with those issues.

66

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I can only make of it that men don’t all want what you want. Well, clearly the ones who want me don’t.
[/quote]
Do you really not get it?

If there’s one thing men want in a woman it’s loyalty. You seem to have no earthly idea how rare your aversion to cheating is compared to young women these days.

67

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I can only make of it that men don’t all want what you want. Well, clearly the ones who want me don’t.
[/quote]
Do you really not get it?

If there’s one thing men want in a woman it’s loyalty. You seem to have no earthly idea how rare your aversion to cheating is compared to young women these days.[/quote]

Men seem to cheat a lot, too!

I don’t know that this is the answer - how does a stranger know I won’t cheat? As I recall, Tim mentioned not cheating both before and after he got caught the first time.

He messaged me the other day to say that he thinks of me often. Wtf. Jerk.

68

Come to think of it, I have some feelings to process when I get a chance. Hockey saw me fall apart for the first time last week. I cried. He was horrified. I’ve never seen anyone clutch flashlights so tightly, lol.

69

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So glad I’m married!

That women stuff seems so very, very complicated…

I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]

I don’t know, because that “simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect” thing seems to be working a charm for me, even in modern days. I have someone well able to provide, who makes my toes curl and who is proving to be a very good friend indeed. I’d rather spend time with him than anyone else, though I enjoy my girlfriends and workmates too.

[/quote]

Do you think in this day and age, that a man in his 20’s would be able to exhibit the same traits? I highly doubt it. PEOPLE evolve (assuming a positive trajectory is established early enough). A man in his 20’s is LITERALLY “half” the man he will become in his 40’s - in personality, experience, assets, etc… His market value goes up exponentially.

A woman’s reproductive/market value goes DOWN as she gets older. Not saying there aren’t ANY “MILF’s” out there, but often times a woman who is in “decline” is at odds with how to deal with it and is often a bitter, castrating bitch. There are of course exceptions to this.

Integrity and self respect are important, but it’s not something that many people have at a younger age these days. Again, there are exceptions! But the pickings are slim.[/quote]

I don’t know what to say, AC, except that my experience has been very different from what you describe. I only date high earning men relative to my location. The only exception was the creepy hunter guy - a rebound from Tim, who was in local government here and who’d previously been on faculty at a US News top 25 college.

I only date fit men. Not buff, though the creepy hunter guy was that, but in decent shape and athletically inclined. Men who have a sport and practice it. Doesn’t matter what it is. Hockey could lose some weight, but he’s middle aged and can and does lead an active recreational life.

All the men I went out with were at the height of their earning power, age wise. I had at least two dates with a geologist, a financier (the smart guy I didn’t like kissing), a software designer, doctor, an architect, and Hockey, who is an engineer - all men who were in decent - very good shape.

I’m still bewildered by the crazy good luck I had. I’m certainly on the decline and am not beautiful. But here I am. I can only make of it that men don’t all want what you want. Well, clearly the ones who want me don’t.

Chushin reports that back in the olden days he had the same experience I had last year, and from the other side of the aisle (he’s a boy and was in his youth, presumably).

What do you make of that? I’m asking honestly. My experience has been so far removed from my expectation given all I’d read about women my age on these pages.

Edit: “I only date high earning men” sounds avaricious. I select for intelligence and earnings tend to follow. Money isn’t something I select for, though debt-free became important to me after Tim because I decided debt speaks to impulsiveness and poor self-control and I was sick of men with those issues.[/quote]

Your ability to date but not lock down high quality men proves nothing. Either you dumped them (which means their quality is questionable), or they dumped you which fails to prove your point that an 8.5 aught to be able to lock down a high quality man.

70

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So glad I’m married!

That women stuff seems so very, very complicated…

I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]

I don’t know, because that “simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect” thing seems to be working a charm for me, even in modern days. I have someone well able to provide, who makes my toes curl and who is proving to be a very good friend indeed. I’d rather spend time with him than anyone else, though I enjoy my girlfriends and workmates too.

[/quote]

Do you think in this day and age, that a man in his 20’s would be able to exhibit the same traits? I highly doubt it. PEOPLE evolve (assuming a positive trajectory is established early enough). A man in his 20’s is LITERALLY “half” the man he will become in his 40’s - in personality, experience, assets, etc… His market value goes up exponentially.

A woman’s reproductive/market value goes DOWN as she gets older. Not saying there aren’t ANY “MILF’s” out there, but often times a woman who is in “decline” is at odds with how to deal with it and is often a bitter, castrating bitch. There are of course exceptions to this.

Integrity and self respect are important, but it’s not something that many people have at a younger age these days. Again, there are exceptions! But the pickings are slim.[/quote]

I don’t know what to say, AC, except that my experience has been very different from what you describe. I only date high earning men relative to my location. The only exception was the creepy hunter guy - a rebound from Tim, who was in local government here and who’d previously been on faculty at a US News top 25 college.

I only date fit men. Not buff, though the creepy hunter guy was that, but in decent shape and athletically inclined. Men who have a sport and practice it. Doesn’t matter what it is. Hockey could lose some weight, but he’s middle aged and can and does lead an active recreational life.

All the men I went out with were at the height of their earning power, age wise. I had at least two dates with a geologist, a financier (the smart guy I didn’t like kissing), a software designer, doctor, an architect, and Hockey, who is an engineer - all men who were in decent - very good shape.

I’m still bewildered by the crazy good luck I had. I’m certainly on the decline and am not beautiful. But here I am. I can only make of it that men don’t all want what you want. Well, clearly the ones who want me don’t.

Chushin reports that back in the olden days he had the same experience I had last year, and from the other side of the aisle (he’s a boy and was in his youth, presumably).

What do you make of that? I’m asking honestly. My experience has been so far removed from my expectation given all I’d read about women my age on these pages.

Edit: “I only date high earning men” sounds avaricious. I select for intelligence and earnings tend to follow. Money isn’t something I select for, though debt-free became important to me after Tim because I decided debt speaks to impulsiveness and poor self-control and I was sick of men with those issues.[/quote]

Your ability to date but not lock down high quality men proves nothing. Either you dumped them (which means their quality is questionable), or they dumped you which fails to prove your point that an 8.5 aught to be able to lock down a high quality man.
[/quote]

Maybe they were quality people, but just not compatible?

71

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
He messaged me the other day to say that he thinks of me often. Wtf. Jerk. [/quote]

Tell him you think of him everyday when you go outside. And see garbage bins and dog shit.

(Not my joke, I got emailed it the other day.)

72

[quote]Chushin wrote:
I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]
It still is.

73

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

Why on earth would she not choose someone who can give her all three elements - provider, intimacy/friendship, and passion? She would have to be broken not to want all three in one package.

[/quote]

I would chose a Citation X with two pilots, but I can only reasonably afford a King Air with one.

Same quandary, really.

74

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Something I’ve wondered about: Why would a guy want to spend time with a woman who does these alleged “shit tests?”

That just doesn’t sound like someone worth investing anything in.[/quote]

I’ve never met a woman (at least one that I would fuck) who did NOT do some kind of shit test…[/quote]

Right. “Shit test” makes it sound calculated, perhaps devious but its often done unconsciously and is really just a “maleness” test.

Unless she’s coming out of a bad relationship, being a pushover (or incongruency in this regard) tends to make a man less attractive and this can tend to accumulate.

-edited-

75

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So glad I’m married!

That women stuff seems so very, very complicated…

I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]

I don’t know, because that “simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect” thing seems to be working a charm for me, even in modern days.
[/quote]

Of course it’s still a good thing and the best (only?) way to attract/keep a mate with similar qualities.

However, dating (and casual sex) nowadays do not strictly require these qualities and they can even hinder one’s efforts if they’re not eyes wide open about it.

I guess my point is that one’s ‘integrity’ shows up over time, as a function of their actions and decisions blah blah. Meanwhile, one’s self-respect can be sussed out in any number of “shit tests.”

-edited-

76

Game changes as the quality of the guy/girl goes up. Why would the 8-9 go for the guy with self-respect/integrity instead of the guy with those qualities+a high paying job and a big dick?

If you settle for a girl in your league(currently) then what is the point. Adapt and build on yourself until you can get that girl that you considered out of your league before. You may not be able to control every aspect of it but given the personality, skills, fitness etc. you can open up more options for yourself.

78

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Something I’ve wondered about: Why would a guy want to spend time with a woman who does these alleged “shit tests?”

That just doesn’t sound like someone worth investing anything in.[/quote]

I’ve never met a woman (at least one that I would fuck) who did NOT do some kind of shit test…[/quote]

A question and some thoughts:

Question: Does that include the African and South American and Asian women you have known?

Some thoughts:

  1. I find that hard to believe. Perhaps I am clueless.
    [/quote]No disrespect, but when’s the last time you were on the market IN AMERICA?[quote]
  2. I find that hard to believe. Perhaps AC self-selects that kind of woman to want to bed, or the shit-test is in the eye of the testee (no pun intended!).
    [/quote]My “selection” process is not so constrained that it would select only one type - I have an international penis. This is something that I have experienced here from EVERY attractive woman I’ve ever approached. It’s like breathing to them.[/quote]
  3. That’s not been my experience. Perhaps this is a culture-bound thing, as my most recent experiences have been with Middle-Eastern and Japanese women.
    [/quote]Different culture, different places and ways of meeting, etc…[quote]
  4. Don’t men “test” women all the time, too, to see how far they can go / what they can get from them (and then frequently devalue the ones who oblige)?
    [/quote]Smart men test women. And aggressive men push boundaries (not ALL men, by any means!). And ASSHOLE men devalue women who “oblige”… You sound like a fucking feminist with the last statement, buddy! :slight_smile: [quote]
  5. I’ve known some women who fell all over themselves to please and try to “get” the man they were interested in. How do they fit the “Shit Test Axiom?”[/quote]
    I’ve seen this too. AFTER a woman has “picked” a man she wants. Then she can become a little obsessed (again, not ALL women do this and those that do, tend to be a wee bit on the CRAZY side). I don’t think you understand the context of a shit test. It is something a woman does to a man WHO APPROACHES her COLD. She doesn’t know him, her girlfriend didn’t introduce them, she hasn’t worked with him for months, didn’t go the same school, etc… SHE DOESN’T KNOW HIM. So she TESTS him. That’s what we are discussing here: the blatant, obvious tests that women do. Sure women will test men in other ways if they’ve been warmly introduced or if they have a social history, but that’s usually more subtle and after attraction has already set in. That’s not a shit test per se… A shit test is what a woman does when a handsome stranger approaches her and he body is telling her to fuck him, but her mind is getting in the way so she needs to quickly determine his “worth”.

See the difference? Most other tests are very manageable and can be “passed” simply by having integrity and not being an asshole - she already likes you, and if you “fail” you have a shot a making it up. A shit test comes BEFORE she decides if she “likes” you or not and failure will usually blow you out of the water with her (and her group, generally).

79

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So glad I’m married!

That women stuff seems so very, very complicated…

I can still remember way back when simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect was a pretty good way to find a woman of similar caliber. [/quote]

I don’t know, because that “simply being a person who acted with integrity and self-respect” thing seems to be working a charm for me, even in modern days. I have someone well able to provide, who makes my toes curl and who is proving to be a very good friend indeed. I’d rather spend time with him than anyone else, though I enjoy my girlfriends and workmates too.

[/quote]

Do you think in this day and age, that a man in his 20’s would be able to exhibit the same traits? I highly doubt it. PEOPLE evolve (assuming a positive trajectory is established early enough). A man in his 20’s is LITERALLY “half” the man he will become in his 40’s - in personality, experience, assets, etc… His market value goes up exponentially.

A woman’s reproductive/market value goes DOWN as she gets older. Not saying there aren’t ANY “MILF’s” out there, but often times a woman who is in “decline” is at odds with how to deal with it and is often a bitter, castrating bitch. There are of course exceptions to this.

Integrity and self respect are important, but it’s not something that many people have at a younger age these days. Again, there are exceptions! But the pickings are slim.[/quote]

I don’t know what to say, AC, except that my experience has been very different from what you describe. I only date high earning men relative to my location. The only exception was the creepy hunter guy - a rebound from Tim, who was in local government here and who’d previously been on faculty at a US News top 25 college.

I only date fit men. Not buff, though the creepy hunter guy was that, but in decent shape and athletically inclined. Men who have a sport and practice it. Doesn’t matter what it is. Hockey could lose some weight, but he’s middle aged and can and does lead an active recreational life.

All the men I went out with were at the height of their earning power, age wise. I had at least two dates with a geologist, a financier (the smart guy I didn’t like kissing), a software designer, doctor, an architect, and Hockey, who is an engineer - all men who were in decent - very good shape.

I’m still bewildered by the crazy good luck I had. I’m certainly on the decline and am not beautiful. But here I am. I can only make of it that men don’t all want what you want. Well, clearly the ones who want me don’t.

Chushin reports that back in the olden days he had the same experience I had last year, and from the other side of the aisle (he’s a boy and was in his youth, presumably).

What do you make of that? I’m asking honestly. My experience has been so far removed from my expectation given all I’d read about women my age on these pages.

Edit: “I only date high earning men” sounds avaricious. I select for intelligence and earnings tend to follow. Money isn’t something I select for, though debt-free became important to me after Tim because I decided debt speaks to impulsiveness and poor self-control and I was sick of men with those issues.[/quote]

Your ability to date but not lock down high quality men proves nothing. Either you dumped them (which means their quality is questionable), or they dumped you which fails to prove your point that an 8.5 aught to be able to lock down a high quality man.
[/quote]

I’m not sure how to answer this. It’s so removed from anything I’ve said, it’s hard to organize a defense. I’ll make a list, like Chushin, since he’s a man and as such probably clearer in his communications, since I am by-God-determined that my point [sic] be proved.

  1. Lock-down is complete, as far as I can tell. I’m in a relationship with the last of the listed guys I went out with: a bio-engineer who plays hockey, snowboards, etc, and with whom I enjoy the very best minutes of my every week. Apparently he feels the same way. We’re buying a house together.

  2. “Dumped” is a very strong word for going out with someone a couple of times and not entering into a relationship, sexual or otherwise. At a certain level surface quality is assumed and the question becomes whether being with him brings me joy. He is presumably answering the same question for himself. I seemed to have been the one to pull out, but that is probably only because men are more willing to have a casual sexual relationship than I am. I’m sure I would have been dumped more often if I hadn’t eliminated men I didn’t like enough to have sex with.

  3. I have not claimed to be an 8.5, and in fact claimed otherwise I believe (“not beautiful”).

  4. I also recall the bit about an 8.5 being that she can get a powerful, wealthy man. Personally, those attributes do not constitute “quality” to me. Integrity, self-control, kindness, and intelligence do. (These attributes are associated with success in life, which may lead to confusion.)

At any rate, here was my exact point: quality men as I define them do not universally seek 8.5s in my experience. Some of them seem surprisingly interested in becoming “locked down” with someone like me instead.

Which is the opposite of the point you accused me of not proving.

80

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

Why on earth would she not choose someone who can give her all three elements - provider, intimacy/friendship, and passion? She would have to be broken not to want all three in one package.

[/quote]

I would chose a Citation X with two pilots, but I can only reasonably afford a King Air with one.

Same quandary, really.[/quote]

Your analogy is confusing me. Are you saying two pilots is better = two men/women are better?

Are you with me or against me? lol