Advice to a Thai Boxer

Off Topic
21

Lets get something straight Sonny Any fighting art where the objective is to take the other guy out by delivering a crushing blow to their head is not something where you might get hurt, it is something where you most definately do get hurt each and every time you get hit. Getting hurt is just one side of the coin. The other side is you can hurt someone yourself. I personally know a Kronk boxer who killed a man in the ring and one of my teachers stopped a mans heart and left him comatose for two months and the guy was never the same. Both of them were affected by it. I myself have left at least one person minus a testicle. So I know what it is like to hurt someone bad and kind of enjoy doing it.

There are arts where you don’t concentrate on the head but do work the body hard. It’s harder to drop someone with a body shot than a head shot.

Unlike you Sonny I don’t like grappling, because getting half naked and rolling around on a mat with my legs wrapped around another mans back is not the least bit exciting.

22

“It’s harder to drop someone with a body shot than a head shot.”

Actually Sifu, I am not sure if I whole-heartedly agree with you on that statement. While I don’t know the statistics, but I do know that a well planted body-shot can stop a man cold, no matter how big you are. I can’t remember who it was fighting between the Beast (I think that’s his name, the 300 something pounder who fights “defensive-end” style in K1) and who was it, Cro-cop? The guy stopped the Beast with a nicely planted kick (or was it a punch) to the midsection. The Beast has a damn dense head and rarely gets knocked out…

In short, body shots, if executed correctly, is killer. But yeah, the bottom line is, body shots have a less chance of resulting in permanent injuries as head shots. A broken rib is better than a concussion… or is it?

23

Sifu- You first admit that both men were affected by causing death and a coma. Then you say:

“I myself have left at least one person minus a testicle. So I know what it is like to hurt someone bad and kind of enjoy doing it.”

Are you bragging? You enjoyed it? That’s a pretty horrible thing to brag about. But I don’t think you are, you’re probably talking about the joy one recieves in carrying out an attack beautifully and seeing it work just as you practiced it.

Besides, wasn’t he WEARING A CUP???

“There are arts where you don’t concentrate on the head but do work the body hard.”

-I am GENUINELY curious about these. Is it the arnis you mentioned?

“Unlike you Sonny I don’t like grappling, because getting half naked and rolling around on a mat with my legs wrapped around another mans back is not the least bit exciting.”

-Are you afraid of your sexuality? Because that is both an arrogant and sexually insecure statement. Insecure about your own capabilities as well. Are you paranoid about ending up on your back? You can’t handle it?
Its OK, I know guys who can’t handLe the fact that if they end up on the ground, they are going to be easy pickings.

I assure you that once you are grappling, it is just as ferocious as standing and you won’t be thinking about the other man’s body!

24

I don’t like the direction our last posts are heading Sifu, so I’d like to agree to disagree. Especially because you seem as if someone I can learn from.

You have experience and the best way to learn is from someone who has that experience. Perhaps you are telling IH to not do it because you are older and wiser and know what its going to be like further on down the road for him if things go awry. You are protective and don’t want him to get hurt since he isn’t going to be competing as seriously as others thanks to his good job.

I don’t think its wise to live life with regrets (and he is torn between what and what not to do which prob. will lead to regret) since it is the most painful thing I have encountered.

I truly feel that one will always regret the things one did NOT do than the ones one did. Within certain Darwinian limits of course!

Example: I broke an ankle and went broke attempting to become a professional wrestler. Everybody was against the idea. Many thought it was foolish.

But you know what? I TRIED. They didn’t.

I grew as a person and added dimension and texture and experience to my life. I didn’t stay in my comfortable job and keep going out twice a week to clubs getting sloshed and treading water in all areas of my life.

I carried out a drastic turn in my life and lived to tell about it.

Nothing feels as good as when some cousin or acquaintance or loser says they’re glad I stopped because it wasn’t a smart idea or they didn’t know what the hell I was thinking. And I stand there with a huge smile on my face and a glowing confidence knowing that every time somebody says that, it makes me even more secure in the knowledge I made the right decision. I took a risk and they didn’t. I made Teddy Roosevelt proud and they didn’t.

I also think that he is a young man and should do manly things and not be a “pussy” - I, along with some on this board, loathe the situation men in many countries are mired in. Neutered, timid, somwehat androgynous.
A world where someone is considered a badass if they make a lot of money.

Having said that : I AM interested in kickboxing as well, in fact I want to do it AMAP while still doing MMA. We only train for about 4 hrs a week anyway, leaving plenty of time for other arts.

25

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Lets get something straight Sonny Any fighting art where the objective is to take the other guy out by delivering a crushing blow to their head is not something where you might get hurt, it is something where you most definately do get hurt each and every time you get hit. Getting hurt is just one side of the coin. The other side is you can hurt someone yourself. I personally know a Kronk boxer who killed a man in the ring and one of my teachers stopped a mans heart and left him comatose for two months and the guy was never the same. Both of them were affected by it. I myself have left at least one person minus a testicle. So I know what it is like to hurt someone bad and kind of enjoy doing it.

There are arts where you don’t concentrate on the head but do work the body hard. It’s harder to drop someone with a body shot than a head shot.

Unlike you Sonny I don’t like grappling, because getting half naked and rolling around on a mat with my legs wrapped around another mans back is not the least bit exciting.[/quote]

Stopped a man’s heart and left him comatose for two months? How exactly does that work? See the thing is, its pretty hard to stop a heart–the right blow in the right place can cause an arythmia and lead to a heart attack, but there is no Pai Mei Five Finger Exploding Heart Technique. No one had their heart stopped unless they were choked into unconciousness, kept without air for several minutes, and then resuscitated. Not buying it. And then laying in a coma for two months? Whatever man…

I won’t even go into your homoeroticism issues wherein you think its cool to grab a guys nuts, but its gay to roll on the mat with him–half naked at that. I don’t suppose you’ve heard of gi’s? Too busy thinking of oiled up naked Turkish wrestlers huh Sifu?

Then, what is this nonsense about some art focus on body shots and not head shots? That is nonsense–all arts focus on body shots. So far as I am aware only one professional boxer was ever a successful headhunter–Tyson in his prime. Most boxers work the body over and over again to tire their opponent and open him up for a good head shot. You never come out swinging for the head. Same with Muay Thai–repeated leg shots, kicks to the body, wear him down. If you go out swinging for the head only you’d better be amazing or you’re going down. But there is simply no martial art or fighting sport that emphasizes going for head shots. Yeah I know some of these Karateka who think they are Mas Oyama believe that they are going to go around reverse punching guys in the temple and dropping them with one punch. Whatever. Even if you bring weapons arts into it, no one focuses on the head exclusively.

Oh yeah, as for your earlier assertion about “Yin” and “Yang” arts–please, spare me the cheesy New Ageisms. Tai Chi done right is wicked, nasty stuff–ain’t nothing soft about it. That a bunch of old farts do forms in the parks that are ostensibly Tai Chi doesn’t make it soft. Power is delivered in a different manner (no, its not chi), but the objective is still the same–to beat down the other person. Oh, Aikido you say–ummm, for one, derived from kenjitsu, the sole aim of which was to slice the other guy up. Ueshiba, before his post-WWII conversion to being a hippy, was a rough and tumble bad ass who went around looking for fights. Not so soft. Judo–please, soft my ass. Jujitsu? All your so called “Yin” arts are actually really wicked arts designed to injure someone in the most efficient manner possible. That some pussies decide to soften their image up and teach them in a sensitive, palatable fashion is another thing altogether.

One last thing Sifu–why is it that you imagine yourself on your back in the guard when you imagine grappling? I guess you like to be on the receiving end huh?

26

Take up Tai Bo. It’s really a good workout and provides real good street fighting practice:}

To all of those who say you should be safe, I say, life is a series of calculated risks. You can get killed walking out your front door and falling down the stairs. That’s why I wear a helmet all day, every day - you just never know. On the other hand, you need to calculate the risks and benefits of continuing MT or stopping and pursuing something else to fill your competitive combativeness (see Tai Bo comment - just kidding). Only you can make the decision based on careful consideration of what’s ultimately most important to you. By the sound of it, you are concerned about your safety. I don’t think this is the right mindset to have when entering the ring, because that is when you get hurt. Make your decision and move on with your life with no regrets no matter which way you go.

Good Luck,
DB

27

Another option for you bud is to get into a grappling art such as BJJ or Ninjitsu (grappling and striking). I find both arts above to be rewarding. The reason I choose those two arts is because my grappling is not up to par with my stand-up.
Good luck.

28

I knew I’d stir up some controversy, sorry if I offended anyone I guess the estrogen remark bugged me a little. First off I wasn’t there when my teacher stopped the guys heart so I only have his word and the word of two witnesses one of who is a doctor. My teacher wieghed over 250 and he hit the guy in the neck with a shuto. Knowing what my teacher is capable of I can believe what I was told.

Part of my motivation comes from spending many years with teachers whose attitude was one of if you are not getting bones broken on a regular basis you’re not trying hard enough. I have three bones that need surgery to put them back into their original position. Two I’m not too concerned about, but one is a rib that sticks two inches out of my chest and I am constantly aware of it. I should have stopped fighting when I broke it the first time, but my teachers would have taken that as a sign of weakness. A few months and it would have healed, still been in the right place and I wouldn’t have had to undure 15 years of problems from it. Some karate classes have fighting where they go full contact to the body with light contact to the head vs MT where you will work the body but when you get an opening you clean the guys clock or grappling where you try to clinch and drag the other guy to the ground. I’ve worked at no holds barred fights and I’ve watched a few on tv, I don’t see anyone wearing Gi’s.

As far as NHB or MT, If that’s your thing go do it. It takes fortitude to get into the ring like that. I’ve seen people who didn’t know enough to realize that they had no business getting into the ring do just that. I’ve watched a “street fighter” who should have submitted refuse to submit. Despite being in a hold that he couldn’t break and having recieved several individual elbows to the back of the neck, to give him the hint, finally recieve a volley of elbows that put him totally out. An experienced martial artist would have had enough respect for his opponent to have tapped out.

After suffering many injuries due to a onetime lack of certain skills and having to wonder what the future holds from the pounding I’ve taken. I’ve come to realize that a lot of it was unneccessary and the mentality of you’ve got to be a tough guy who throws caution to the wind and isn’t worried about getting injure is not going to give longevity as a martial artist and it sucks to train with people like that. I don’t want to be some busted up old man talking about my glory days when I was young. I want to get better as I get older not slowed by old age and injuries. Unless you are getting well paid for it, getting all busted up is a waste of your health. I wish someone older who I could look up to had given me some idea of this twenty years ago so I might have spared myself some severe damage. It only would have taken a few months of rest and some class mates who were a little less thick headed.

29

Wow, yeah, this thread kinda got a bit tense there.

I think it’s safe to say there are two school of thoughts on the issue on hand: 1) don’t be a pussy and stop Muay Thai because you are afraid of getting hurt 2) stop before you get hurt

To be honest, I was completely in the #1 boat up to the point of my second concussion, as I mentioned, I was completely gung-ho, no fear into the ring for the first time, no regards for future health or lack of. I didn’t care. I was a “badass”, I was trained to kill, I was ready to take on ANYBODY (at least I thought I was =] )

But then the second concussion came (now mind you I didn’t get my concussions from falling down the stairs… I got it from playing rugby which I did for four bloody years). At that time I was in my last year of college and gearing up for job/grad school. I started to understand the pressures of money, job, society, etc. I started to understand my responsibility NOT only to myself, but to my family and friends. I will not be the ONLY one to get hurt in the ring, what I do and what happens to me affect all those who care about me. This is where I started seeing the wisdom of #2 and started to mellow out.

I asked myself, when is an activity worth the risks and when does it STOP being worth the risks? When do the cons outweigh the pros? I asked myself, what is my motivation to fight? Why am I doing Muay Thai? I love the exercise, I love the training, I love how odds are, I can stand up to some bozo on the street if I ever get myself in a situation where I get jumped. But what motivation is it for me to fight in a ring? My answer prior to the second concussion was always “it’ll make me a better fighter” and I think that statement still stands true, one learns a great deal from competition. But now that leads me to the next question… how much “better” do I want/need to get? What are the costs in becoming better? What are the risks? Do the payoffs justify the risks? That’s where I start to waiver. And quite frankly, after reading the forums and doing some more thinking, I think the answer for me is “no”.

Like Sifu, I do not want to end up becoming an old man in a wheel chair at the age of 58 with brain damage who needs diapers because I have no bladder control reminiscing my good ol’ days. I want to be that badass 79 year old who can still do marathons and who can still train whatever. (Albeit I am not so sure I want to be 79… but you get my point.) In short, I think I have come to accept the fact that the risks of getting in more Muay Thai fights just ain’t worth the payoff. I think I’ll save my brains for my academic endeavors.

As a matter of fact, I think I’ll start focusing more on Muay Thai drills and do a little less sparring from here-on-out. I’ll of course continue my lifting, sprinting, basketball, whatever, along with my chasing girls just to keep my testosterone level up to par. Then someday once I get my MS I’ll look into other sports/martial arts. =]

Thanks again for all the advice and the recommendations. I think the road I’ll choose (and I know it’s a cop out…) is gonna be somewhere down the middle favoring a tad bit on the cautious side.

Live with passion but don’t be stupid.

30

Iron,
It appears that you have weighed the options fully and have made a mature decision. Making the decision that YOU feel is right for you in the face of all of those who consider you a coward for quitting fighting is NOT a cop-out. Get that notion out of your head. I may get flamed by the over-zealous ultra-men on this site, but I think you made the right choice. MT is extremely manly, no doubt about that, but there is nothing manly about a vegetative state. And as for keeping up your skills for the “bozo” on the street - just don’t go looking for trouble and it won’t be an issue. Again, there’s nothing manly about getting anally raped in a prison shower, which is where you’ll end up if you kill someone because they bumped into you and didn’t back down. I’m not saying that you should hand in your testicles, rather that there are a lot of other worthwhile pursuits in life that are ultimately more manly than kicking someone’s ass.

31

Ok, now that we’ve calmed down, I have some questions for all of you who do or have done kickboxing.

I want to start as well. How do I know what a good school or teacher is? How do I pick them out? I live in NYC so there has to be a good school somewhere. Any suggestions?

THen- what resources do you use for stretching? I’m looking to increase my flexiblity big time, for kicking awa grappling (I never realized how much flexibility was required for submissions!)

Do you guys follow what others guys in the gym do, what your teacher does, do you follow someone’s method, do you just follow the articles from t-mag?

Just so we’re clear, I don’t mean injury-preventions stretching, I know more than enough.

I mean REAL flexibility, martial arts flexibility.

For those of you w/ experience I would really appreciate your help.

32

Well, I would hardly consider myself a seasoned veteran… I have been training for about ~3 years.

First of all, make a distinction between kickboxing and Thai boxing because there is a discernable difference. Thai boxing you kick with your shins, are allowed to elbow and knee while kickboxing is kicking w/ feet and they don’t really leg check.

Thai Boxing >>>>> kickboxing ; )

To tell a great dojo from a so so dojo, go to a few classes and observe what the instructor is telling the class to do. If all they is work the bags day in day out and spar without much instructions from the instructor, then it’s no good. A good dojo would be structured, with a plan; the instructor would teach, i.e. do drills with pads, show you how to check, how to counter this and that, how to properly execute a high kick, how to roll etc. The instructor will KNOW WHY to do this and that and what makes it work.

Remember, a good fighter does not necessarily mean a good teacher. I’ve come across instructors who train you for a couple of months and then unleash you in a ring w/o having given you proper training/instructions (“but you’ve sparred a lot…” sure, you sparred with wrong technique but we won’t talk about that.)

Hmm, anything else, also look at those who are in the class and that will help to give you an idea of the mentality of the group.

As for stretching… can’t really help you there other than just saying, stretch stretch stretch. Flexibility comes with your training, every kick you do helps…