Long story short, I’m a 26yo that discovered in 2021 I had low test (236-240ng/dl) and after 15 weeks of attempting to raise my levels naturally, i failed.
I believe I have secondary hypogonadism as my LH and FH were very low 1.2/ 2.2 respectively. I had a cranial MRI done but for some reason the soonest i can see a neurologist is in 6 months to go over the images #DecentralizeMedicine
I am currently taking 2 weekly injections 140mg Test Cyp and have been doing so for 4 weeks. No real changes as I had little-no symptoms of low-t except my sleep and recovery was terrible. Now I sleep extremely well and my recovery is much better. ED has never been an issue for me but I do wake up with raging morning wood now lol.
I need some guidance on the following:
I want to start supplementing HCG after 12 weeks of TRT. I don’t believe its a good idea to stop all testicular function as the HPTA is meant to be a complete loop and some hormones such as Anti-mullerian hormone (AMI) are only secreted from the tissue in the testes (there is another that starts with P but I forget). However, I am having a hard time legally sourcing HCG as the clinic I use for test cant/wont order it and I havent even found a MD that will even take me as a patient because of TRT. The clinic however, has offered enclomiphene as a substitute for HCG. I read up on it and it seems like an unsustainable protocol as it suppresses IGF-1. The only other option, outside of finding an actual MD to prescribe me HCG, is an UGL and having to order/test a sample every time, which i have too I wont care, but I’d much prefer a more legitimate route.
Thats because, for most, the real changes are just starting about THIS time. If you were truly low T you will start seeing the benefits real soon.
HCG does not fix that in any way.
Don’t use HCG. TRT is for life and the only real benefit of HCG is fuller testicles outside of its role in feritility. If you don’t need it for fertility protocols then IMO don’t use it.
I wonder whether this explains why my DHEA dropped from 200 to 80 after starting TRT. I don’t have a number for pre-TRT Pregnenolone but it’s now at the very bottom of the range also.
It is. What you wrote is only in theory with no real substantial data to back it up other than rats.
“The functional consequences of luteinizing hormone/human chorionic gonadotropin signaling via neuronal luteinizing hormone/human chorionic gonadotropin receptors expressed throughout the brain remain unclear.”
“remain unclear” doesn’t mean “all those LH receptors in the brain are just there as Christmas decorations”.
And I hope you completely discredit with the same enthusiasm any study done on rats. For example, I hope you also claim with absolute certainty that BPC-157 is completely useless since the studies were done on rats.
Saying that you know for a fact hCG is uselss outside of making your balls fuller shows you have zero understanding of science or even basic logic. It’s really shocking actually
Bro I have probably done more research on this topic than you have. I realize you are new here and that doesnt discredit you in any way. But I have not seen anything that substantially indicates HCG’s benefit as an LH mimic other than what I mentioned (while taking exogenous testosterone). If you have something to change my mind great. But if you want to call me out personally… try me.
BPC-157 is used to accelerate healing. This is quantifiable measurable in rats, hence a different story all together.
Everything I’ve read about HCG indicates that it replicates LH function and stimulates the testes to continue normal function. Pregnenolone was the hormone I forgot, but it is essential for thyroid health and the majority of it is produced in the testes. I’m probably creating a problem that’s not there but I feel it’s worth discussing. If pregnenolone is shut down wouldn’t a male body on trt eventually deal with suppressed levels? And I don’t care about testicle size (at least I don’t think I do) but the theory of supplementing HCG is to help the body maintain normal, natural function which would be optimal right?
Got a lot of new members with big mouths. They ask stupid questions in half their posts and then act like experts the next day. Its infuriating but all part of open discussion. Just have to deal with it.
Correct, but you no longer need your testes when you are taking TRT. They are now essentially ornamental.
Correct. Testes produce other hormones than just testosterone… but there is no study on men showing that HCG significantly and consistently increases anyof those hormones . However all we really have are anedcotal reports. Some feel good on it and others feel like crap and even get anxiety. You also have to make sure you are keeping this in the proper dosage like anything else as too much LH/LH Mimic has bad downstream effects. Poiint being there are theories that its neuroprotective but these are mostly theories at this point so without definitive data I remain resolved in what I stated above.
A while ago there was a bloodletting on the forum regarding HCG and the consensus was it only prevented testicular atrophy, that it came with many side effects that were undesirable, and was basically worthless.
There was overwhleming evidence cited.
Until there is new research, ya’ll are fighting an old fight that has already been decided.
If you want fuller balls, use it and deal with the complications, but don’t try to justify it other than having a desire to avoid atrophy - that’s all it does.
Idk know anyone to ask but is it normal to experience negative effects outside of possible ventricle hypertrophy, from prolonged TRT use associated with a suppression of these hormones. Or really do guys have any issues on long term use of exogenous test? It sucks there isn’t deep studies into hormone use, even for women on birth control the studies are not very in depth.
TRT has become wildly popular in recent years but its nothing new. I will let someone else take the deep dive into this as I’m tired and about to leave work. @highpull is practitioner and would probably be able to answer this well as I’m sure he’s asked that a lot.
There are actually quite a few studies being done and most of them point out that otherwise healthy males have improved health and quality of life on TRT compared to living with low Testosterone. The conclusion is that the minimal risks associated with TRT outweigh the long term consequences of living with Low T.
I got you, specifically I just meant more historical data and with a large variety of inquiry. I think that the massive amount of case studies even before clinical trials of exogenous hormones would be sufficient to say TRT is preferred to low T
I”ve heard this, but haven’t run across real-world examples. While taking HCG my prog & DHEA were low normal (while also on testosterone). Off HCG for years now and prog is still low, but DHEA is normal (still on test). I think your adrenal health has more impact on these hormones.
As usual with these TRT-and-HCG threads, I chime in because I used HCG with TRT for years for fertility and have two kids because of using it.
I have some thoughts on the topic, obviously.
As with TRT, I suggest not going to a clinic for HCG. I have a dim view on clinics considering the outrageous amount of or unnecessary medicine I’ve heard about some giving. Seek a doctor who knows what he’s doing with fertility.
It does not reverse testicular atrophy in all hypogonadal men. My doc and I once took a stab at HCG mono therapy with 9,000 IU per week and even with that dose, atrophy did not reverse.
Not all men have side effects from HCG. I did not have any from HCG and after 20 years of TRT I only had a side effect that lasted a couple of month back in the early 2000s.
Some men seriously underestimate how much HCG they need with TRT for fertility. That is, a paltry 250 IU a few times per week isn’t gonna do it. My doc prescribed 1000 IU thrice per week with TRT and that’s the dose that had my sperm count go up significantly.
Is that a total of 140 mg per week or 280 mg per week? If it’s 280 per week, you’re not on TRT.
Where did you find this out from? I knew a guy who used Clomid by itself for several years, prescribed by a doc, and didn’t have one problem from it.
I’ll see if I can find the study again. But for women taking sarms, IGF1 levels decreased considerably during 3 month chronic use. The study I read was the same for men over prolonged use