Adding Cardio After Weights Workout

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Professor X wrote:
truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.[/quote]

what’s your reason for putting shrugs on shoulder day? I’ve never done it, but seems like a good idea, since I could include another back exercise on back day

22

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

what’s your reason for putting shrugs on shoulder day? I’ve never done it, but seems like a good idea, since I could include another back exercise on back day[/quote]

I just consider that a part of the shoulder complex. I would not train shrugs on back day. My back day is filled enough as it is.

Either way, it works. Give it a try.

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
I mostly agree on the push/pull/legs point.

I think that if one is seriously limiting volume, then there is little wrong with push/pull (as per DC training - some of those guys are monsters).

However, even with the limited volume (one rest/pause set per muscle group) I have found that my performance drops off so much by the last bodypart that I have no option but to split things up further - my split is now:

  1. Chest/Triceps
  2. Shoulders
  3. Back width
  4. Back thickness/Biceps
  5. Quads/Hams/Calves

Even with just a single rest/pause set per bodypart (3 minisets) it is simply useless for me to hit shoulders AFTER chest AND triceps.

As for cardio, I don’t see the point in it other than maintaining fitness levels. For fatloss diet by far outweighs any amount of cardio.

Still, everyone’s different I suppose, so if you need it, do it. During a separate session would be my recommendation though.

I trained up to three body parts a training session when I first started. That ended when I truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.[/quote]

I’ve always been one to listen to the words of those more experienced than myself. I suppose this is just one of those things that you have to experience for yourself to truly grasp. Do you think I could be making even better progress if I trained differently? I know initially I had the same thoughts when I was deciding on whether to implement this style of training but just decided to try it and see for myself instead of speculating and it worked very well. Now I’m wondering if it was specifically because of the training or the fact that in these past few months my nutrition has been more spot on than ever.

24

Shelby Starnes and Chris Fox at elitefts train using a push/pull/legs split and seem to do just fine.

25

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
I mostly agree on the push/pull/legs point.

I think that if one is seriously limiting volume, then there is little wrong with push/pull (as per DC training - some of those guys are monsters).

However, even with the limited volume (one rest/pause set per muscle group) I have found that my performance drops off so much by the last bodypart that I have no option but to split things up further - my split is now:

  1. Chest/Triceps
  2. Shoulders
  3. Back width
  4. Back thickness/Biceps
  5. Quads/Hams/Calves

Even with just a single rest/pause set per bodypart (3 minisets) it is simply useless for me to hit shoulders AFTER chest AND triceps.

As for cardio, I don’t see the point in it other than maintaining fitness levels. For fatloss diet by far outweighs any amount of cardio.

Still, everyone’s different I suppose, so if you need it, do it. During a separate session would be my recommendation though.

I trained up to three body parts a training session when I first started. That ended when I truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

I’ve always been one to listen to the words of those more experienced than myself. I suppose this is just one of those things that you have to experience for yourself to truly grasp. Do you think I could be making even better progress if I trained differently? I know initially I had the same thoughts when I was deciding on whether to implement this style of training but just decided to try it and see for myself instead of speculating and it worked very well. Now I’m wondering if it was specifically because of the training or the fact that in these past few months my nutrition has been more spot on than ever.

[/quote]

I think you are at that point where you are moving from a beginner to a very well informed intermediate lifter. Your genetics are better than most and now may be the time to start asking yourself whether changes need to be made.

Again, I trained like that as a beginner. I didn’t train like that once I got near 200lbs.

Your strength levels and how you feel at the end of the workout are what will determine what you do. If what you are doing is still working for you, keep it up.

26

on the cardio issue… I had the idea that a little light cardio PWO helps with soreness and recovery. Is that incorrect?

Isn’t there some kind of issue about blood pooling also?

27

[quote]Professor X wrote:
kingbeef323 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
I mostly agree on the push/pull/legs point.

I think that if one is seriously limiting volume, then there is little wrong with push/pull (as per DC training - some of those guys are monsters).

However, even with the limited volume (one rest/pause set per muscle group) I have found that my performance drops off so much by the last bodypart that I have no option but to split things up further - my split is now:

  1. Chest/Triceps
  2. Shoulders
  3. Back width
  4. Back thickness/Biceps
  5. Quads/Hams/Calves

Even with just a single rest/pause set per bodypart (3 minisets) it is simply useless for me to hit shoulders AFTER chest AND triceps.

As for cardio, I don’t see the point in it other than maintaining fitness levels. For fatloss diet by far outweighs any amount of cardio.

Still, everyone’s different I suppose, so if you need it, do it. During a separate session would be my recommendation though.

I trained up to three body parts a training session when I first started. That ended when I truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

I’ve always been one to listen to the words of those more experienced than myself. I suppose this is just one of those things that you have to experience for yourself to truly grasp. Do you think I could be making even better progress if I trained differently? I know initially I had the same thoughts when I was deciding on whether to implement this style of training but just decided to try it and see for myself instead of speculating and it worked very well. Now I’m wondering if it was specifically because of the training or the fact that in these past few months my nutrition has been more spot on than ever.

I think you are at that point where you are moving from a beginner to a very well informed intermediate lifter. Your genetics are better than most and now may be the time to start asking yourself whether changes need to be made.

Again, I trained like that as a beginner. I didn’t train like that once I got near 200lbs.

Your strength levels and how you feel at the end of the workout are what will determine what you do. If what you are doing is still working for you, keep it up.[/quote]

Purely speculating but age can play a big effect on how much he can handle. Even though with age and time spend in the gym come hand in hand, youthful hormones and connective tissues that have not been overloaded can play a huge part in how much a person could handle.

Even using the same weights I don’t htink can handle the volume I would do in the summer 10 years ago.

28

Just lift more weight.

:slight_smile:

29

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

what’s your reason for putting shrugs on shoulder day? I’ve never done it, but seems like a good idea, since I could include another back exercise on back day

I just consider that a part of the shoulder complex. I would not train shrugs on back day. My back day is filled enough as it is.

Either way, it works. Give it a try.[/quote]

Would you also do farmer’s walks on shoulder day? Or keep those on back day? I want to incorporate them into my workout but I’m not sure if I want to sacrifice other back movements for them.

30

[quote]JLu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

what’s your reason for putting shrugs on shoulder day? I’ve never done it, but seems like a good idea, since I could include another back exercise on back day

I just consider that a part of the shoulder complex. I would not train shrugs on back day. My back day is filled enough as it is.

Either way, it works. Give it a try.

Would you also do farmer’s walks on shoulder day? Or keep those on back day? I want to incorporate them into my workout but I’m not sure if I want to sacrifice other back movements for them.[/quote]

Outside of training for a strong man contest, why do them? For shoulders? There are better exercises. For back? They get most of the work just from getting them off the ground, not by walking with them. What is your reason for doing them?

31

Kevin Levrone does chest/shoulders/tri’s, back/bi’s, legs twice a week.

I highly doubt he did this when he was training for the Olympia, but it’s worked well for him during his recent transformation.

32

[quote]Professor X wrote:
JLu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

what’s your reason for putting shrugs on shoulder day? I’ve never done it, but seems like a good idea, since I could include another back exercise on back day

I just consider that a part of the shoulder complex. I would not train shrugs on back day. My back day is filled enough as it is.

Either way, it works. Give it a try.

Would you also do farmer’s walks on shoulder day? Or keep those on back day? I want to incorporate them into my workout but I’m not sure if I want to sacrifice other back movements for them.

Outside of training for a strong man contest, why do them? For shoulders? There are better exercises. For back? They get most of the work just from getting them off the ground, not by walking with them. What is your reason for doing them?[/quote]

I mainly want to do them for the grip strength/forearm development, but the fact that they hit other areas makes them that much more attractive.

33

[quote]JLu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
JLu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

what’s your reason for putting shrugs on shoulder day? I’ve never done it, but seems like a good idea, since I could include another back exercise on back day

I just consider that a part of the shoulder complex. I would not train shrugs on back day. My back day is filled enough as it is.

Either way, it works. Give it a try.

Would you also do farmer’s walks on shoulder day? Or keep those on back day? I want to incorporate them into my workout but I’m not sure if I want to sacrifice other back movements for them.

Outside of training for a strong man contest, why do them? For shoulders? There are better exercises. For back? They get most of the work just from getting them off the ground, not by walking with them. What is your reason for doing them?

I mainly want to do them for the grip strength/forearm development, but the fact that they hit other areas makes them that much more attractive.[/quote]

You want grip strength and THIS is the first thing that pops into mind? Stop using straps unless absolutely needed and I can tell you that alone will increase grip strength. I can do shrugs now with 6 plates on each side with no straps…something I could not have done years back when I first hit that weight.

As far as it hitting more muscle groups, while this can be a benefit in some movements, if you guys are simply doing shit that randomly hits as many muscle groups indirectly as possible, then you will end up missing out on actually training individual muscle groups with enough attention to stress their true strength capacity.

My shoulders or biceps may be “activated” during a squat but that doesn’t mean that is all I need to do for shoulders and biceps (I know you know this already I am just spelling it out).

In the end, if you want to do them, fine, but those are some weak reasons. If nothing more, it will likely take away from more effective exercises as far as your long term physique goals…which you have not gone into detail about.

What exactly are your long term goals?

34

[quote]Professor X wrote:
JLu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
JLu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Professor X wrote:
truly started feeling my workouts suffer towards the end due to the increased weight used.

My training now is usually so draining that attempting to train anything else on shoulder day would be a waste of time. Between overhead presses, shrugs, lateral raises and some variant of front raises (or high incline press), I am fried.

what’s your reason for putting shrugs on shoulder day? I’ve never done it, but seems like a good idea, since I could include another back exercise on back day

I just consider that a part of the shoulder complex. I would not train shrugs on back day. My back day is filled enough as it is.

Either way, it works. Give it a try.

Would you also do farmer’s walks on shoulder day? Or keep those on back day? I want to incorporate them into my workout but I’m not sure if I want to sacrifice other back movements for them.

Outside of training for a strong man contest, why do them? For shoulders? There are better exercises. For back? They get most of the work just from getting them off the ground, not by walking with them. What is your reason for doing them?

I mainly want to do them for the grip strength/forearm development, but the fact that they hit other areas makes them that much more attractive.

You want grip strength and THIS is the first thing that pops into mind? Stop using straps unless absolutely needed and I can tell you that alone will increase grip strength. I can do shrugs now with 6 plates on each side with no straps…something I could not have done years back when I first hit that weight.

As far as it hitting more muscle groups, while this can be a benefit in some movements, if you guys are simply doing shit that randomly hits as many muscle groups indirectly as possible, then you will end up missing out on actually training individual muscle groups with enough attention to stress their true strength capacity.

My shoulders or biceps may be “activated” during a squat but that doesn’t mean that is all I need to do for shoulders and biceps (I know you know this already I am just spelling it out).

In the end, if you want to do them, fine, but those are some weak reasons. If nothing more, it will likely take away from more effective exercises as far as your long term physique goals…which you have not gone into detail about.

What exactly are your long term goals?[/quote]

I already don’t use straps on any movements, however my grip strength is still shameful and sometimes even limits my deadlift or rowing movements as my grip will fail before anything else forcing me on to the next exercise.

It might sound like I have weak reasons for wanting to do them but I figured it was better to choose a “bang for your buck” exercise. If not farmers walks for grip strength what do you suggest? Wrist roller? Captains of Crush grippers?

My long term goals are to strong as fuck and look half decent at the same time, but for now my priority is getting to the point where I can move respectable weight in order to work up to those goals.

35

drop the weight on the dumbbell rows and really focus on keeping your grip tight throughout the movement. as you go up in weight you’ll feel yourself developing an iron grip. matt kroc talked about how they’re a cure-all back exercise and, in my experience, he’s right.

36

If the cardio is to elicit fat loss, wouldn’t it be beneficial to do it separately from the rest of your workout? As in upon waking or something like 4 hours before a workout?

37

[quote]snoopabu3 wrote:
drop the weight on the dumbbell rows and really focus on keeping your grip tight throughout the movement. as you go up in weight you’ll feel yourself developing an iron grip. matt kroc talked about how they’re a cure-all back exercise and, in my experience, he’s right.[/quote]

That’s a good idea…and the key is to simply think it out. I never did any specific movements for my grip. I just quit relying so much on wrist straps (whereas I used to use them a lot for shrugs mostly). Some of the problem, Jlu, may also be that you aren’t gaining enough body weight and muscle to see much of a difference. If your strength isn’t increasing without straps, then check your diet first and then possibly keep straps in ONLY for the heaviest portion of the set scheme (assuming you aren’t doing something retarded like keeping the weight the same for all sets).

38

When i try to cut fat, along with diet down pat, I do SS cardio post workout for 15-20 minutes on the stairmaster. Now I first started out slowly adding cardio in b/c I like to use it to keep pushing the fat loss along, so i don’t hit any walls (plus cardio sucks). I think its very beneficial, but you need to have something like BCAAs to sip on as your doing it.

When I did SS cardio, on non workout days or post workout, I would always have xtend and creatine to sip on throughout. I usually did SS cardio post workout on 2 (out of 4) workout days. Then I did about 30-40 minutes SS on the stairmaster in the morning on non-workout days. That’s what I finally had to work up to to keep the fat loss going. I started out doing something similar to you. All in all the plan worked well for me.

I think your protocol would work, but just keep an eye on how the body composition looks and adjust as needed.
Oh side note, just saw you want to do cardio after legs…good luck with that one, those were the days i happily avoided doing cardio as i would hobble out of the gym.

39

[quote]Professor X wrote:
snoopabu3 wrote:
drop the weight on the dumbbell rows and really focus on keeping your grip tight throughout the movement. as you go up in weight you’ll feel yourself developing an iron grip. matt kroc talked about how they’re a cure-all back exercise and, in my experience, he’s right.

That’s a good idea…and the key is to simply think it out. I never did any specific movements for my grip. I just quit relying so much on wrist straps (whereas I used to use them a lot for shrugs mostly). Some of the problem, Jlu, may also be that you aren’t gaining enough body weight and muscle to see much of a difference. If your strength isn’t increasing without straps, then check your diet first and then possibly keep straps in ONLY for the heaviest portion of the set scheme (assuming you aren’t doing something retarded like keeping the weight the same for all sets).[/quote]

Err…right…I guess I’ll stop doing that then :confused:

40

[quote]JLu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snoopabu3 wrote:
drop the weight on the dumbbell rows and really focus on keeping your grip tight throughout the movement. as you go up in weight you’ll feel yourself developing an iron grip. matt kroc talked about how they’re a cure-all back exercise and, in my experience, he’s right.

That’s a good idea…and the key is to simply think it out. I never did any specific movements for my grip. I just quit relying so much on wrist straps (whereas I used to use them a lot for shrugs mostly). Some of the problem, Jlu, may also be that you aren’t gaining enough body weight and muscle to see much of a difference. If your strength isn’t increasing without straps, then check your diet first and then possibly keep straps in ONLY for the heaviest portion of the set scheme (assuming you aren’t doing something retarded like keeping the weight the same for all sets).

Err…right…I guess I’ll stop doing that then :/[/quote]

Seriously, that may really be your problem since you would HAVE to use straps for all sets because you don’t ramp your weight up.

For the record, why do people think that is the best way to get really big and really strong?

If you attempt a 450lbs bench press with no ramp or very significant warm up, just get yourself ready for a weightlifting career ending injury.