You’re goddamn right I don’t understand. Please enlighten us about the morality of killing women because of real or imagined sexual misdeeds.
See, here in the corrupt secular West, we believe (falsely, I know) that women deserve to be treated equally under the law.
So please explain the justification of “honor” killings.[/quote]
first of all honour killings is a tribal tradition it’s more of an arab’s issue than an islamic issue.
why i said its hard for u to understand? because -i don’t know if u have a sister or not- if i asked u if u’d accept ur sister having sex with a man who is not her husband? u’d say she’s free to do what she wants.
and it’s not just you ,nearly all the west thinks this way on the other hand if i knew someone was having sex with my sister i’d kill them BOTH i can’t take it my manhood just can’t take it .
John 17:1-2 - When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you,
Luke 22:70 - They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied to them, “You say that I am.”
Mark 16:61-62 -But he was silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him and said to him, “Are you the Messiah, the son of the Blessed One?”
Then Jesus answered, “I am; and ‘you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.’”
Yup, looks like he claimed it to me. [/quote]
i told you that the bible was infiltrated, well i must go into politics to explain this .
the church wanted absolute power back then to rule and to do so it had to do something to prove that it’s following the way of god -who is according to some christians i know is jesus !!!- anyway so the church messed up the bible to gain absolute power over it’s followers by installing a devine nature on jesus christ as the son of god.
now to prove that you are wrong also , how come that some christians say that jesus is the son of god and some say that he is god ??!!!
[quote]dyskee wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
dyskee wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
seems to me that people are forgetting that faith is divine, is personal, and that ALL religions are man made.
u have to start reading this thread from the beginning.
I have. lathered in rhetoric.
My question about any religion, is why praise a prophet? He was a messenger OF GOD? If he was, worship God. I find it analogous to driving to a lovely vacation site and worshiping the car.
What is the pbuh?
we don’t praise the prophet but our point is that he demands respect whether you like it or not because he was chosen by god to carry his word and i think that god chooses wisely. why didn’t god choose me or u or lixy and chose mohamed (pbuh)? i think because he has something better than us that we don’t have[/quote]
[quote]dyskee wrote:
if i knew someone was having sex with my sister i’d kill them BOTH i can’t take it my manhood just can’t take it .[/quote]
Very interesting dyskee. Just two things to clarify some confusion on my part.
So you believe the two of them should die because “your manhood just can’t take it”? Is that the only reason? The main reason? Do any justifications exist beyond your own feelings on the matter? Anything based in your holy texts?
Clearly you believe your sister/lover should face violent consequences. Now let me ask you, should you face any consequences for killing them? If not, why not? If so, why?
yes i do because iam jealous and very over protective when it comes to my family and friends.
that’s the reason , i have lady friends but i never cross the border with them we hang out together go to the gym together swim together eat together do everything but i do respect them and i never try to offend them in anyway and i don’t mind my sister having guy friends as long as they respect her and draw the same border i drew.
and because its adulterey , as for the quran the quran says that the adulterers -both of them- should be whipped 100 times or the man 100times and the woman 80 times -am not sure which of them- if there are 4 witnesses who saw them.
i should stand a murder trial because i commited a murder but i shouldn’t face execution because the constitution here says that if u catch for instance ur wife cheating with u and u killed her and her lover them u face nothing.
but that’s man’s justice on the other hand god’s justice says in the quran: bism ilah alrahman alraheem “man quatal yuqtal walaw baa’d heen” which means “those who kill shall be killed even after a long time” i translated it so sorry if the english isn’t that good.
[quote]dyskee wrote:
and because its adulterey [/quote]
It’s only adultery if one of them is married.
Human life is sacred in Islam.
“If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people” – Quran 5:32
And killing your sister and her potential lover is many many (MANY!!!) times worse than fornication. Penises and vaginae aren’t nearly as sacred as Human life.
Your attitude is outrageous and highly hypocritical. Instead of telling others “about Islam”, I suggest you start applying its principles to your own life.
[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
and because its adulterey
It’s only adultery if one of them is married.
but that’s man’s justice on the other hand god’s justice says in the quran: bism ilah alrahman alraheem “man quatal yuqtal walaw baa’d heen” which means “those who kill shall be killed even after a long time” i translated it so sorry if the english isn’t that good.
Human life is sacred in Islam.
“If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people” – Quran 5:32
And killing your sister and her potential lover is many many (MANY!!!) times worse than fornication. Penises and vaginae aren’t nearly as sacred as Human life.
Your attitude is outrageous and highly hypocritical. Instead of telling others “about Islam”, I suggest you start applying its principles to your own life.[/quote]
[quote]lixy wrote: “If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people” – Quran 5:32
And killing your sister and her potential lover is many many (MANY!!!) times worse than fornication. Penises and vaginae aren’t nearly as sacred as Human life.
Your attitude is outrageous and highly hypocritical. Instead of telling others “about Islam”, I suggest you start applying its principles to your own life.[/quote]
Lixy, I just wanted to say that altough I consider you to be obnoxious and a besserwisser - aka knowitall - I have never had a doubt about where you stand on important issues.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
What is your take on honor killing?[/quote]
Oxymoron.
It’s a crime reminiscent of an age where women were under the boots of men. Come to think of it, a pregnant sister without a husband would have meant trouble as the father/brother would have had to fork some of his hard-earned money to feed the bastard. There was probably also the shame it would bring to the family. But I’m no anthropologist, so I may be wrong.
Either way, the way it’s rationalized by this Dyskee shows how much thought went into the decision to murder his sister if she was to screw around: “my manhood just can’t take it”. How insecure do you have to be to spout such rubbish?
Also, remember that a decade ago, there was a law that allowed a rapist to walk free if he married his victim. That should give you an idea of where this dude’s coming from.
John 17:1-2 - When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you,
Luke 22:70 - They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied to them, “You say that I am.”
Mark 16:61-62 -But he was silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him and said to him, “Are you the Messiah, the son of the Blessed One?”
Then Jesus answered, “I am; and ‘you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.’”
Yup, looks like he claimed it to me.
i told you that the bible was infiltrated, well i must go into politics to explain this .
the church wanted absolute power back then to rule and to do so it had to do something to prove that it’s following the way of god -who is according to some christians i know is jesus !!!- anyway so the church messed up the bible to gain absolute power over it’s followers by installing a devine nature on jesus christ as the son of god.
[/quote]
Oh! So it must be true, because you said it! LOL!!! Generally one who makes such a bold claim would like to back it up with like actual facts. You need references, your word is not good enough when your saying the bible is false or infiltrated and hence not to be trusted.
Reference accurately and tread carefully.
You’re killing me!
Where do you get this stuff? See Theophilus in 180 AD and the Counsel of Nicea 325 AD. That will answer your questions. There is no conflict.
yes i do because iam jealous and very over protective when it comes to my family and friends.
that’s the reason , i have lady friends but i never cross the border with them we hang out together go to the gym together swim together eat together do everything but i do respect them and i never try to offend them in anyway and i don’t mind my sister having guy friends as long as they respect her and draw the same border i drew.
and because its adulterey , as for the quran the quran says that the adulterers -both of them- should be whipped 100 times or the man 100times and the woman 80 times -am not sure which of them- if there are 4 witnesses who saw them.
i should stand a murder trial because i commited a murder but i shouldn’t face execution because the constitution here says that if u catch for instance ur wife cheating with u and u killed her and her lover them u face nothing.
but that’s man’s justice on the other hand god’s justice says in the quran: bism ilah alrahman alraheem “man quatal yuqtal walaw baa’d heen” which means “those who kill shall be killed even after a long time” i translated it so sorry if the english isn’t that good. [/quote]
H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T! You’d kill you own sister because she fucked around? I am speechless.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
lixy wrote: “If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people” – Quran 5:32
And killing your sister and her potential lover is many many (MANY!!!) times worse than fornication. Penises and vaginae aren’t nearly as sacred as Human life.
Your attitude is outrageous and highly hypocritical. Instead of telling others “about Islam”, I suggest you start applying its principles to your own life.
Lixy, I just wanted to say that altough I consider you to be obnoxious and a besserwisser - aka knowitall - I have never had a doubt about where you stand on important issues.[/quote]
Lixy and I disagree on just about everything, that’s ok. I want you to know that I do not lump you in with this kind of thinking, I do believe you are above that.
Further, I sincerely hope that his way of thinking is not pervasive in greater islam. I hope that you are right and I am wrong and that most muslims are peaceful well reasoned folk. His absurdity only serves to confirm the worst stereo types non-muslims have, and that is truly sad.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
dyskee wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
seems to me that people are forgetting that faith is divine, is personal, and that ALL religions are man made.
u have to start reading this thread from the beginning.
I have. lathered in rhetoric.
My question about any religion, is why praise a prophet? He was a messenger OF GOD? If he was, worship God. I find it analogous to driving to a lovely vacation site and worshiping the car.
What is the pbuh?
It gets even better. Apparently Muslims see Jesus as a sinless being, perhaps the son of God. And yet, they choose to constantly focus on “the prophet”… Peace Be Upon Him.
[/quote]
Muslims definitely do not regard Jesus as either the son of God, or a son of God.
Also, I think you could just as well turn that last sentence around. I mean, muslims having Muhammad as their final messenger, the last word on prophecy - and yet still giving a (genuinely) special and affectionate distinction for Jesus…sounds like something to celebrate rather than query…
“If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people” – Quran 5:32
And killing your sister and her potential lover is many many (MANY!!!) times worse than fornication. Penises and vaginae aren’t nearly as sacred as Human life.[/quote]
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
dyskee wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
dyskee wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
seems to me that people are forgetting that faith is divine, is personal, and that ALL religions are man made.
u have to start reading this thread from the beginning.
I have. lathered in rhetoric.
My question about any religion, is why praise a prophet? He was a messenger OF GOD? If he was, worship God. I find it analogous to driving to a lovely vacation site and worshiping the car.
What is the pbuh?
we don’t praise the prophet but our point is that he demands respect whether you like it or not because he was chosen by god to carry his word and i think that god chooses wisely. why didn’t god choose me or u or lixy and chose mohamed (pbuh)? i think because he has something better than us that we don’t have
[quote]dyskee wrote:
and it’s not just you ,nearly all the west thinks this way on the other hand if i knew someone was having sex with my sister i’d kill them BOTH i can’t take it my manhood just can’t take it .[/quote]
And that is why nobody respects Islam. You’d kill them both? For fucks sake, you’re talking about your sister. I don’t give a toss what you say - that’s murder and you’d deserve to be hanged for such an atrocity.
Your ‘manhood’ can’t take it? I think your ‘manhood’ is a non-issue now.
[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
and because its adulterey
It’s only adultery if one of them is married.
but that’s man’s justice on the other hand god’s justice says in the quran: bism ilah alrahman alraheem “man quatal yuqtal walaw baa’d heen” which means “those who kill shall be killed even after a long time” i translated it so sorry if the english isn’t that good.
Human life is sacred in Islam.
“If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people” – Quran 5:32
And killing your sister and her potential lover is many many (MANY!!!) times worse than fornication. Penises and vaginae aren’t nearly as sacred as Human life.
Your attitude is outrageous and highly hypocritical. Instead of telling others “about Islam”, I suggest you start applying its principles to your own life.[/quote]
I am sorry about this guy Lixy, I don’t lump you in with this guy.
Perhaps a discussion of the Uthmanic recension would be germane at this point for the purposes of maintaining a single standard for both the Qur’an and the Bible.
As far as the unity of God is concerned, try to familiarize yourself with the doctrine of the Trinity so that you don’t misrepresent in the future.
God is one in nature, but three in personhood. These are different categories.
[quote]pat wrote:
kaaleppi wrote:
Lixy, I just wanted to say that altough I consider you to be obnoxious and a besserwisser - aka knowitall - I have never had a doubt about where you stand on important issues.
Lixy and I disagree on just about everything, that’s ok. I want you to know that I do not lump you in with this kind of thinking, I do believe you are above that.
Further, I sincerely hope that his way of thinking is not pervasive in greater islam. I hope that you are right and I am wrong and that most muslims are peaceful well reasoned folk. His absurdity only serves to confirm the worst stereo types non-muslims have, and that is truly sad.
My advice is that he quit while he’s behind.[/quote]
I don’t think that you disagree with what Lixy wrote above, you might doubt it’s sincerity, though. I’m a secular westerner with an affinity to christian thinking and just trying to realize the rules for political discussion that BostonBarrster set forth
What comes to the problems in the islamic world I undirectly expressed what I think is the basic cause in BostonBarrister’s thread “Political Economy of Hate”. He truly tries hard, BostonBarrister.
[quote]dyskee wrote:
makavali i mentioned earlier that The Quran teaches us to say,
(We hear and we obey.) (2:285) The ultimate aim of our religion is to arrive at a deep realization that we are slaves and Allah
“god” Most High is our master.
and as for your claim of blind faith somethings are supposed to be taken blindly without discussion and i think religion is one of them[/quote]
Rubbish. We’ve been given brains for the very purpose of thinking. Nothing is EVER meant to be taken blindly without discussion. I did respect you at one stage, but comments like these and the one about killing your sister just make you a walking stereotype. And a negative one at that.
Only uncooked pork is bad for you. Would you eat raw chicken?
Where did you get yours from? It sounds like you’re just spewing out what you’ve been told instead of researching it for yourself.
[quote]Honor killings, anyone?
well it’s something hard for you to understand[/quote]
Try me.
I think you are that trivial based on your comments. You overplay female emotions my friend. They are just as capable of making rational decisions.
[quote]I beg to differ. They were objectified only in some civilizations. In others, they were honored, and rightly so (childbirth).
atlast u agree on something. that they were objectified.[/quote]
You’re not reading the whole thing. You make it sound like Islam was the shining light for womens rights.
Saudi Arabia anyone?
Most of the Middle East anyone?
[quote]no homos was mentioned in the quran alot look up those verses:
6:86, 7:80-84, 11:77-83, 15:57-77, 21:74-75, 26:160-175, 27:54-58, 29:26, 28-35, 37:133-138, 51:31-37 and 54:33-39.[/quote]
Don’t give me verses, does it actually say clearly “NO GAY SEX”
[quote]I think they were born that way. If it’s socially conditioned behavior, then where did it originate?
i don’t know where it originated but no body is born that way.[/quote]
