About Islam

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]Makavali wrote:
dyskee wrote:
and it’s not just you ,nearly all the west thinks this way on the other hand if i knew someone was having sex with my sister i’d kill them BOTH i can’t take it my manhood just can’t take it .

And that is why nobody respects Islam. You’d kill them both? For fucks sake, you’re talking about your sister. I don’t give a toss what you say - that’s murder and you’d deserve to be hanged for such an atrocity.

Your ‘manhood’ can’t take it? I think your ‘manhood’ is a non-issue now.[/quote]

Haha, so true.

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[quote]dyskee wrote:
…if i knew someone was having sex with my sister… my manhood just can’t take it .[/quote]

What creeps me out is the incestuous undertone there. Intended or not.

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guys here u go again i told u honor killings are a tribal thing not islamic and here u go ignoring this and focusing on my own private point of view.

lixy i know that human life is sacred in islam.

pat iam not going to kill her i was answering a question i don’t know what i’d do if my sister was screwed i’d have to think about it but i just can’t put myself in that position i can’t picture what would happen then. i’d have to do one of 2 things i’d either die of heart stroke because i couldn’t take it or die of brain explosion because i can’t take it. and i told u this is not islamic its TRIBAL , culture call it what u want but it’s not an islamic tradition.

red bull i agree with u

makavali read my reply to pat please will you

makavali and pat u gave me tons of lessons about one’s freedom in his own way of thinking and yet when i was giving an example of a cultural situation u left the the whole culture thing and u quickly blamed islam. doesn’t that tell u something?? like maybe u just want to blame islam on everything .

makavali well i still do respect you because i have seen nothing from u but a fruitful debate, that i rather enjoy daily id it wasn’t just for your long posts.

maybe iam not that experienced with females??

in saudi arabia it’s once again tribal and cultural issues.

for the gays yes no gay sex and spoke about their punishment alot, and why don’t u read the verses i read everything u post to me.

do u have any ideas why gays can’t quit? personally i don’t know but i think it’s a point of weakness and should be treated either the cold turkey way by stopping it once and for all or slowly undergoing maybe phsycological therapy?

and why can’t u accept the idea that god is perfect ,devine and can’t make any mistakes?

and u contradict urself here once again u say that islam is worth it if we remove the cultural crap and i agree with that and once again say i made islam look bad because i was asnwering a question on a cultural issue??!!!

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
And that is why nobody respects Islam. [/quote]

???

He wants to kill his sister because of his manhood (or lack thereof), not Islam.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
dyskee wrote:
…if i knew someone was having sex with my sister… my manhood just can’t take it .

What creeps me out is the incestuous undertone there. Intended or not.[/quote]

what do u mean i can’t understand that?

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[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
And that is why nobody respects Islam.

???

He wants to kill his sister because of his manhood (or lack thereof), not Islam.[/quote]

Yes, but he is on this forum claiming to represent Islam as at should be. People will come on here and associate his words with Islam.

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lixy and makavali i don’t want to kill my sister i love her i was setting an example!!!

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[quote]dyskee wrote:
guys here u go again i told u honor killings are a tribal thing not islamic and here u go ignoring this and focusing on my own private point of view.[/quote]

Then why on earth would you speak of killing your sister? You keep telling us Islam is perfect, why not follow it’s rules?

Hell, not killing others isn’t a unique trait of Islam, most people have that one written down.

[quote]lixy i know that human life is sacred in islam.

pat iam not going to kill her i was answering a question i don’t know what i’d do if my sister was screwed i’d have to think about it but i just can’t put myself in that position i can’t picture what would happen then. i’d have to do one of 2 things i’d either die of heart stroke because i couldn’t take it or die of brain explosion because i can’t take it. and i told u this is not islamic its TRIBAL , culture call it what u want but it’s not an islamic tradition.[/quote]

Then don’t associate your tribal habits with Islam.

Because it seems like Islam has let itself slide into decay. Like I’ve said, no man-made religion is perfect, and until you can prove that God gave us the Qura’n, then Islam is just another man-made religion.

I enjoy debate. That’s probably why the posts are so long.

Irrelevant. You show a lack of respect toward them, but they are human and should be treated as such.

[quote]in saudi arabia it’s once again tribal and cultural issues.

for the gays yes no gay sex and spoke about their punishment alot, and why don’t u read the verses i read everything u post to me.[/quote]

Can’t find the strict wording saying it. There is some stuff that could be interpreted that way, but nothing set in stone.

They can’t quit because to them, it’s natural. It’s not a learned behavior. They’ve shown that even as children, you can tell if they are gay or straight.

I never said God is imperfect. I said RELIGION is.

Well… yeah. You started this thread to talk Islam but you talk about killing your sister etc. I don’t think I contradicted myself here, I’ve made the same arguments consistently. So have you, but you don’t back them up. You insist your word is right and we are wrong.

Give us impartial sources! That’s why I go to Wikipedia. It’s quick, easy and (for the most part) impartial.

189

[quote]dyskee wrote:
lixy and makavali i don’t want to kill my sister i love her i was setting an example!!![/quote]

It was a bad example then. Honor killings have no place in society. Tribal or otherwise.

190

Lixy or Dyskee, do you believe that the Koran God and the Bible God are the same?

Do you believe that women should be treated equally as men?

If you could snap your fingers, would you make Shiara Law the “law of the land” for the entire world?

Bunch of random questions, I know, but I wanted to hear you’re views on these.

191

  1. yes

  2. yes

  3. i’d say no because non muslim people will think that we are biased.

192

[quote]dyskee wrote:
guys here u go again i told u honor killings are a tribal thing not islamic and here u go ignoring this and focusing on my own private point of view. [/quote]

Of course we’re focusing on your “own private point of view”! You just advocated murder for Heaven’s sake. Are we supposed to let it slide just because it’s a “tribal thing”?

And honestly, between you and the clods who amalgamate Islam with your kind, I’ll take the latter anytime. Even with all their bigotry and libericides, they’re still less inhumane than you.

Yet, in your mind, human life doesn’t seem to be worth much.

You proselytize about something which you can’t be bothered to apply in your life. Islam isn’t just about worship and prayers. It’s a code of conduct, a philosophy and a lifestyle.

193

ok makavali sorry for the example and sorry for the misunderstanding that happened.

i proved it to you i gave you that link

just becaue i think that females are sentimental in their judgement doesn’t mean that i don’t respect them.

i gave u all the evidence i know that homosexuality is forbeidden and yet u don’t believe , it’s up to u then my friend.

“I’m sure. Because God made a mistake. He fucked up”

how can u say god is perfect and then again say this.

i started this thread to talk about religion not tribal habits and when someone asked about tribal habits i gave a stupid example now u couldn’t leave that behind and u insist on bringing it into every single debate. let it go and focus on the religion.

194

[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
guys here u go again i told u honor killings are a tribal thing not islamic and here u go ignoring this and focusing on my own private point of view.

Of course we’re focusing on your “own private point of view”! You just advocated murder for Heaven’s sake. Are we supposed to let it slide just because it’s a “tribal thing”?

And honestly, between you and the clods who amalgamate Islam with your kind, I’ll take the latter anytime. Even with all their bigotry and libericides, they’re still less inhumane than you.

lixy i know that human life is sacred in islam.

Yet, in your mind, human life doesn’t seem to be worth much.

You proselytize about something which you can’t be bothered to apply in your life. Islam isn’t just about worship and prayers. It’s a code of conduct, a philosophy and a lifestyle.[/quote]

lixy i know i gave a foolish example ok, i can’t kill my sister she’s like my little own child.

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and i know that religion isn’t just prayers “in aldeen al mo’amala”

" religion is the relationship between people"

And honestly, between you and the clods who amalgamate Islam with your kind, I’ll take the latter anytime. Even with all their bigotry and libericides, they’re still less inhumane than you.

i can’t understand this can u elaborate??

and human life means alot to me if i say i’d kill her i don’t mean it , haven’t u seen anyone say i’d kill u if u did that when they are angry and then it’s over???

196

[quote]dyskee wrote:
guys here u go again i told u honor killings are a tribal thing not islamic and here u go ignoring this and focusing on my own private point of view.

lixy i know that human life is sacred in islam.

pat iam not going to kill her i was answering a question i don’t know what i’d do if my sister was screwed i’d have to think about it but i just can’t put myself in that position i can’t picture what would happen then. i’d have to do one of 2 things i’d either die of heart stroke because i couldn’t take it or die of brain explosion because i can’t take it. and i told u this is not islamic its TRIBAL , culture call it what u want but it’s not an islamic tradition.[/quote]

It is good that you can see the absurdity, you are representative of your genereation, I hope. I have nothing against islam, it is basically as good as christianism in my eyes, but it does have serious problems that arise from the culture.

[quote]

for the gays yes no gay sex and spoke about their punishment alot, and why don’t u read the verses i read everything u post to me.

do u have any ideas why gays can’t quit? personally i don’t know but i think it’s a point of weakness and should be treated either the cold turkey way by stopping it once and for all or slowly undergoing maybe phsycological therapy?[/quote]

Why should you care? Why should you be bothered? Just take care of yourself and your morals, it’s a personal thing.

Many of here agree with you, I don’t. God is full of mistakes, successes are few and far apart. God’s success can mean your failure, can’t it?

197

[quote]pat wrote:
dyskee wrote:
pat wrote:

Which actually does not work. Jesus claimed to be the son of God, his entire ministry was based on that. You cannot claim that some of his teachings were ok, but that part is wrong. He either is the son of God or a charlatan, there is no in between. If he is not what he says he is, then everything he said and did is not worth the paper it is written on. The whole “prophet” compromise is a cop out, because if is not what he says he is, then nothing else about him or his life matters. His words and actions should be taken as intended or disregarded all together.

sorry to bust ur bubble but jesus never claimed to be the son of god.

and in the quran god says bism illah alrahman alrahim “Say: He is Allah, the One! (1) Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (2) He begetteth not nor was begotten. (3) And there is none comparable unto Him. (4)”

LOL!! You have got to be shitting me.

John 17:1-2 - When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you,

Luke 22:70 - They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied to them, “You say that I am.”

Mark 16:61-62 -But he was silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him and said to him, “Are you the Messiah, the son of the Blessed One?”
Then Jesus answered, “I am; and ‘you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.’”

Yup, looks like he claimed it to me. [/quote]

Pat, you have got to be kidding…

The idea that we only have two choices - to regard Jesus as the Son of God or demote him to the level of charlatan - does not, with all respect, make sense. The idea that a third option doesn’t work is simply not true - obviously it works perfectly well for millions of people!

Look, I am no Bible scholar and since I am not a practicing Christian or a practicing Muslim I don’t have a ‘personal’ angle in this - but surely you are aware that there are many (scholarly) objections which would highlight the precise differences between the titles of Son of Man on the one hand, and Son of God on the other. Or perhaps the abundance of both titles being applied to persons other than Jesus.

Similarly, my understanding is that the same might be said for the use of the term Messiah - in as much as it possesses a very different connotation to the idea of ‘Son of God’.

Also, I have read that in at least one instance, the use of the word ‘begotten’ has been expunged from at least one version of the Bible - the RSV I believe. Deleted, in other words, because although it certainly supported the concept of Jesus’ divinity, it was found to be inaccurate by at least one Bible scholar…

And while we are talking in general about interpolations and extrapolations, insertions and deletions etc, from my own experience I recall reading one version of the New Testament (I think it was Luke) where the actual verse describing Jesus read ‘Son of Man’ - but the footnote said 'some say ‘Son of God’!

My point is simply that this whole issue - of whether Jesus himself claimed divinity, as well as what status that leaves him with if one believes he did not - is far from unequivocal, as you suggest…

p.s.

And as much as they might not represent mainstream Christianity (or even Christianity full stop!), what about Unitarians - both those of the past and modern day??

198

Also, if you believe that our God is the same God, and that the Bible is corrupt so God called for the Koran, then you must think that the story of Jesus being God’s son is part of this corruption. Why would man make up Jesus being sent as the son of God? If you wanted to control a population wouldn’t a distant, cold God be more beneficial than a God that sends his son to die for our sins?

199

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
dyskee wrote:

It is good that you can see the absurdity, you are representative of your genereation, I hope. I have nothing against islam, it is basically as good as christianism in my eyes, but it does have serious problems that arise from the culture.[/quote]

finally a person who would understand me , thank u alot.

i don’t care everyone is free to do whatever he wants because he shall bear the consequences of his own acts and so will i.

{quote]
and why can’t u accept the idea that god is perfect ,devine and can’t make any mistakes?

Many of here agree with you, I don’t. God is full of mistakes, successes are few and far apart. God’s success can mean your failure, can’t it?[/quote]

i disagree with u on this one but to each his own.

200

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Also, if you believe that our God is the same God, and that the Bible is corrupt so God called for the Koran, then you must think that the story of Jesus being God’s son is part of this corruption. Why would man make up Jesus being sent as the son of God? If you wanted to control a population wouldn’t a distant, cold God be more beneficial than a God that sends his son to die for our sins? [/quote]

because i think that if the church gave jesus (pbuh) a devine image as the son of god , the church could promise people forgiveness and a place in heaven if they follow the son of god in exchange for being completely submissive to the church.

ps: before u attack me iam just making assumptions.