About Islam

[quote]dyskee wrote:
lixy iam thankful that you are trying to guide me but why don’t u try to guide me in a nice way , i don’t know why u seem to offensive to me every time u give me advice . thank you i will look it up in the koran.[/quote]

I have little tolerance for people who relay hearsay and disinformation. It’s tantamount to bida’a in my book, and I have little tolerance for it.

I could be nicer if you had started the sentence with “I personally think…” or a similar expression (as opposed to having the arrogance to speak for Muslims). Get it?

[quote]pat wrote:
Why is imperative to “kill the Jews” btw? Is that what you lot are trying to do, fulfill the prophecy?[/quote]

for the first part i don’t know and iam not going to fulfill the prophecy not any of the muslims of today you can be assured the msulims who will do that will be real muslims who love and obey god and the prophet (pbuh) they will pray in the mosque and memorise the koran they will be better men than we are.

edited for lixie

[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
lixy iam thankful that you are trying to guide me but why don’t u try to guide me in a nice way , i don’t know why u seem to offensive to me every time u give me advice . thank you i will look it up in the koran.

I have little tolerance for people who relay hearsay and disinformation. It’s tantamount to bida’a in my book, and I have little tolerance for it.

I could be nicer if you had started the sentence with “I personally think…” or a similar expression (as opposed to having the arrogance to speak for Muslims). Get it?[/quote]

thnx i got your point but i don’t have arrogance to speak for the muslims , on the other hand i really missed saying that i was talking from my little knowledge. but iam sure u know how immature and rush 18 yo can be . once again thank you very much and i promise you that i will start changing my way.

[quote]dyskee wrote:
lixy wrote:
And while we’re on the subject of Mohammed:

"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.�??

– George Bernard Shaw in The Genuine Islam, 1936.

nice quote is " the genuine islam" a book by george bernard shaw if it is can u tell me where to buy it from??[/quote]

It’s a journal where Shaw is quoted from his meetings with Islamic scholars in Ceylon.

I have no idea where you can fetch a copy, but try your library. The journal was published by an association called All-Malaya, which still operates if I’m not mistaken.

[quote]dyskee wrote:
iam not really sure but basically we won’t be the ones to start a war unless we are attacked threatned , killed , u get my point right?[/quote]

Or spin everything so it appears you are “attacked, threatened, killed” ect, like Muslims are doing today to justify terrorism against anyone and everyone.

[quote]dyskee wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
If Muslims believe that Christ was a Prophet, why did they forsake his teaching?

we didn’t forsake his teachings we only acknowledge those that confirm what the koran says.

[/quote]

Then why would the Koran say it is ok to stone someone to death when Jesus forbid it?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
dyskee wrote:
iam not really sure but basically we won’t be the ones to start a war unless we are attacked threatned , killed , u get my point right?

Or spin everything so it appears you are “attacked, threatened, killed” ect, like Muslims are doing today to justify terrorism against anyone and everyone.[/quote]

Can’t you, for once in your life, build a sound argument instead of logical fallacies?

Dyskee isn’t speaking for Al-Qaeda.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
dyskee wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
If Muslims believe that Christ was a Prophet, why did they forsake his teaching?

we didn’t forsake his teachings we only acknowledge those that confirm what the koran says.

Then why would the Koran say it is ok to stone someone to death when Jesus forbid it? [/quote]

What are you? A moron?

The Quran does not, ANYWHERE, say that it’s ok to stone someone, much less stone him/her to death.

This blatant disinformation is really pissing me off. There’s only so much good faith I can spare. And you, have clearly sunk into the malicious. For the sake of my keeping my cortisol levels in check, you’re going right away in my ignore list. Congrats!

ignore me if you want. Explain the stoning videos I have seen on line.

-edit: and nice how talking about killing Jews does not piss you off, but questioning video I have seen on line of people being stoned to death does because it puts Muslims in a bad light. WTF? I did not make the video, nor did I make those people pick up the rocks and kill a person or two, and I would like their actions explained since we are talking about Muslims here. Is that too much to ask?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
dyskee wrote:
iam not really sure but basically we won’t be the ones to start a war unless we are attacked threatned , killed , u get my point right?

Or spin everything so it appears you are “attacked, threatened, killed” ect, like Muslims are doing today to justify terrorism against anyone and everyone.

Can’t you, for once in your life, build a sound argument instead of logical fallacies?

Dyskee isn’t speaking for Al-Qaeda.[/quote]

I did not say that he was speaking for Al-Qaeda. You did.

-edit, I have built my statement, not my life, on what you have been saying in many, many posts, which justifies war once Muslims have percieved that they are attacked or threatened.

So what exactly is the fallacy here?

[quote]dyskee wrote:
can u explain all this since we are discussing religion??[/quote]

I would like to know from a Muslim where it says the Christian and Jewish text have been tampered with or changed. Is it in the Koran? Because if it is not, it is just hearsay as far as I’m concerned. So if it is, how about a quote saying so.

I would also like to know when exactly the texts were changed, who changed them, why they were changed and what was changed exactly.

If the key to Christianity is to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and he died and rose again to wash away the sins of the world, and this was all “added” afterwards, what, exactly did Christianity teach before this was allegedly “added” and what proof do you have that this was changed other than the Koran or hearsay?

Can you quote early Christian teachers who did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God, ect, or were those texts changed as well?

And lastly, if the texts of even the early church leaders were allegedly changed, how could anyone have altered ALL of the documents of the church prior to the 7th Century and no one noticed?

Oh yeah, one more thing…Pat, who says Jesus will return and convert the Jews?

Probably Baptists, tho I am not up on it.

Read the Left Behind series. The people who believe those books believe in a set series of events which they see unfolding in current history. That is why certain Christians support the Jews in Israel, not because they like Jews, but according to their beliefs, when the end times come, the Jews have to be in possession of Jerusalem, so to hasten the end of the world, these people support the State of Israel.

Anyone have any more or better insight into this than I?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Oh yeah, one more thing…Pat, who says Jesus will return and convert the Jews?

Probably Baptists, tho I am not up on it.

Read the Left Behind series. The people who believe those books believe in a set series of events which they see unfolding in current history. That is why certain Christians support the Jews in Israel, not because they like Jews, but according to their beliefs, when the end times come, the Jews have to be in possession of Jerusalem, so to hasten the end of the world, these people support the State of Israel.

Anyone have any more or better insight into this than I?[/quote]

Oh boy. Let me try.

The “Left Behind” series is a laughable fiction based on a premillenial, pretribulational, dispensationalist understanding of Scripture. It’s too confusing to try to explain here, but these types take all of the figurative language used in the book of Revelation literally. They think there is some sort of separate redemptive plan for the Jews in which the actual nation-state of Israel will be re-instated, along with the temple being rebuilt and the system of sacrifices re-instituted. They likewise believe Jesus will come back to reign on the earth in a literal thousand years of perfect harmony after which Satan will be released and vanquished.

In the Reformed tradition, certain scholars such as Geerhardus Vos believe that Romans 9-11 deals with the Jews being converted en masse immediately prior to the second coming of Christ. Theologians such as Kim Riddlebarger believe that the nation state of Israel might possibly have something to do with facilitating this, but that it has no other significance beyond that. The actual country of Israel is not otherwise more important than any other, even though it was once the place where God chose to implement part of his plan, but that plan is now fulfilled in Jesus.

And, shouldn’t you be trying to spread the gospel, as opposed to being a donkeyfucking asshole? You really make me want to sign right up for Islam. No wonder there is unrest in the ME, hell you can’t even get along with a fellow muslim.

[quote]lixy wrote:
As for the Anti-Christ, HeadHunter believes it’s Obama, so it must true. I mean, he’s not black, nor white, he’s devilishly handsome, smooth talker, a commie and he refuses to wear patriotic pins. It has to be him.[/quote]

Lixy give it up. You make these strange statements all the time. We are not Socialist as your country, He is only a smooth talker when he is on “script”. He bumbles when he speaks for him self. He doesn’t believe in America and that is why he his campaign is now crashing around him. We do not need or want another W. Wilson running our country thank you!

Back on Topic: dyskee I am doubtful of you but I am welling to have open conversation. I dislike close minded people and thus I myself refuse to be one.

dyskee, when a follower of the Koran comes upon a non-believer and has given them three chances to convert (awaken) to Islam but they refuse what does Mohamed say should be done to that non-believer?

Why is the Sword used in the carrying out of this scripture?

[quote]MainelyTrucks wrote:
lixy wrote:
As for the Anti-Christ, HeadHunter believes it’s Obama, so it must true. I mean, he’s not black, nor white, he’s devilishly handsome, smooth talker, a commie and he refuses to wear patriotic pins. It has to be him.

Lixy give it up. You make these strange statements all the time. We are not Socialist as your country, He is only a smooth talker when he is on “script”. He bumbles when he speaks for him self. He doesn’t believe in America and that is why he his campaign is now crashing around him. We do not need or want another W. Wilson running our country thank you! [/quote]

First of all, I am not a Swede. And I am not a socialist. Finally, I have no sympathy for Obama whatsoever.

What is bugging me, isn’t the fact that Obama is attacked. I couldn’t care less. It’s the silly “Is he black?”, “Is he black enough?”, “Is he white?”, “Is he a white supremacist?”, “Is he anti-American?”, “Is he too smart?”, “Is he too pretty?”, “Is his third-cousin’s college buddy’s girlfriend a communist?” that riles me up. If you want to attack the man, do so as a man and deconstruct his arguments. But all this “Hillary can’t operate a coffee-machine” and “McCain was not born in the US” is absolutely and utterly ridiculous. It has got to stop!

[quote]MainelyTrucks wrote:
Back on Topic: dyskee I am doubtful of you but I am welling to have open conversation. I dislike close minded people and thus I myself refuse to be one.

dyskee, when a follower of the Koran comes upon a non-believer and has given them three chances to convert (awaken) to Islam but they refuse what does Mohamed say should be done to that non-believer?

Why is the Sword used in the carrying out of this scripture?[/quote]

Can this question be any more loaded, Mr. OpenMinded?

Do you know anyone who has been converted by force? Anyone that was killed because he/she refused to convert?

[quote]dyskee wrote:

The Islamic economic system can be described as a mixture of the pros of capitalism and socialism without their cons.

There are 3 cornerstones to the Islamic economic system:

  1. Zakkat �??charity�??: the “taxing of certain goods, such as harvest, with an eye to allocating these taxes to expenditures that are also explicitly defined, such as aid to the needy.” It is an obligation on Muslims to pay 2.5% of their income to specified categories in society when their annual wealth exceeds a minimum level (nisab)

Who fair is it that the Farmer is taxed on their Harvest and on their “income” but the Banker is only taxed on his income minus out standing Ribba (which of course Ribba is forbidden)

  1. Gharar - “the interdiction of chance … that is, of the presence of any element of uncertainty, in a contract (which excludes not only insurance but also the lending of money without participation in the risks)”

  2. Ribba �??interest and usury�??: and is forbidden
    Quran about ribba
    �??Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil’s influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, God permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with God. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever�?? (Qur’an 2:275)

  3. jizia: I don�??t know the word in English but the jizia was paid by non muslims who wanted to be protected by the muslims, back then they were given the choice to convert to islam or pay jizia to be under muslims protection.

Whom was the “protection” money protecting against?
doesn’t he Quran say (loose translation) that non believers shall be offered three chances to convert or the Muslim must take his sword and separate the non believers head from his body so that others will convert. Also that the non-believer shall give up their wealth to the believers when confronted. Is that what is meant by protection money?

These money were collected and sent to �??beit al mal�?? ie: the treasury. Where they were to be devided to build the state and the army and so , also to help the poor and needy.
It was once said that their shall be no poor muslim if all the muslims payed their zakkat and that�??s how it was in the days of the prophet �??pbuh�?? but now not all mislims pay which is why we are poor.

(Break)

Such innovations included the earliest trading companies, big businesses, contracts, bills of exchange, long-distance international trade, the first forms of partnership (mufawada) such as limited partnerships (mudaraba), and the earliest forms of credit, debt, profit, loss, capital (al-mal), capital accumulation (nama al-mal), circulating capital, capital expenditure, revenue, cheques, promissory notes, trusts (see Waqf), startup companies, savings accounts, transactional accounts, pawning, loaning, exchange rates, bankers, money changers, ledgers, deposits, assignments, the double-entry bookkeeping system, and lawsuits.

How do you have loans if “Ribba” is forbidden? Can God’s words be danced around when it benefits a Lender?

Organizational enterprises similar to corporations independent from the state also existed in the medieval Islamic world, while the agency institution was also introduced. Many of these early capitalist concepts were adopted and further advanced in medieval Europe from the 13th century onwards.

the systems of contract relied upon by merchants was very effective. Merchants would buy and sell on commission, with money loaned to them by wealthy investors, or a joint investment of several merchants, who were often Muslim, Christian and Jewish. Recently, a collection of documents was found in an Egyptian synagogue shedding a very detailed and human light on the life of medieval Middle Eastern merchants.

Business partnerships would be made for many commercial ventures, and bonds of kinship enabled trade networks to form over huge distances.

Networks developed during this time enabled a world in which money could be promised by a bank in Baghdad and cashed in Spain, creating the cheque system of today.

I.E. World Banks . . . Interest and profit over the people

Each time items passed through the cities along this extraordinary network, the city imposed a tax, resulting in high prices once reaching the final destination.

So the people at the far end are in essence poorer then the people at the port of entry of any given product. That sounds fair to you?

These innovations made by Muslims and Jews laid the foundations for the modern economic system.

The three necessary conditions for an operational markets are said to be upheld in Islamic primary sources:
�?� Freedom of exchange: the Qur’an calls on believers to engage in trade, and rejects the contention that trade is forbidden.
�?� Private ownership
�?� Security of contract: the Qur’an calls for the fulfillment and observation of contracts. The longest verse of the Qur’an deals with commercial contracts involving immediate and future payments.

�??Islam said that 9/10 of profits are in trading �??

How to deal with interest:�??ribba�??

You mean how to get around “God’s” word. Don’t you?

Islamic economic institutions, not just the Islamic bank but all those connected with Islamic banking operates on the basis of “zero interest.”

For example, purchasing a vehicle from an Islamic bank under a “zero interest” loan.

The procedure, generally, is that the client tells the Islamic bank which vehicle he or she would like to own.

The Islamic bank then purchases that vehicle in its name, and sells it to the client at a marked-up price, under an agreement that the new marked-up price of the vehicle must be paid in a certain number of instalments of a certain time period.

Thus a $20,000 car might cost $35,000 if purchased from an Islamic bank at “zero interest,” 5 year loan. Of course, the bank charges the extra $15,000 on top of the $20,000 cost of the car because money has a time value (that is to say, a payment of $20,000 5 years from now is worth less than a payment of $20,000 today).

Isn’t this just a “loop hole” of Ribba? Does God allow twisting of his rules to line the pockets of one by another?

So it is the principle of sharing and the bank is a partner who obtains losses as profits.

When is a loss a Profit? Except when it is the borrower’s loss.

This is because of a law in the Islamic financial theory that you are not allowed to enjoy the profits if you did not take its risk based on the famous tradition, return is determined by exposure to risk/liability.

In 2004 the UK’s first stand alone Sharia’a compliant bank was launched, the Islamic Bank of Britain. They offer products and services to its UK customers that utilise the Islamic financial principles; such as Mudaraba, Murabaha, Musharaka and Qard.

The Islamic finance sector was worth between 300 and 500 billion dollars (237 and 394 billion euros) as of September 2006, compared with 200 billion dollars in 2004.

No profit off the backs of Muslims here huh. .

The number of Islamic retail banks and investment funds number in their hundreds and many Western financial institutions offer products that comply with Sharia law, including Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Lloyds TSB and UBS. quote]

I can’t even begin to show you the flaws in this system. I do not have enough time in my day. I placed information where I believe it was needed.