About Islam

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
321

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
This thread is entertaining, but also kinda sad (not unusual for pious threads).

Dyskee, if you really think there will be a positive, islam-benefitting outcome of your “work” here, you must be mighty ignorant.

What do you expect, honestly?

If your aim was to sharpen your debating skills, kill some time, troll for fun and cyber-jihad, then OK, suit yourself.

Otherwise, grow up, as in, stop wasting time browsing the web and read some books - especially about science, politics and history.

also,

Crack open the Quran one of these days. You may end up learning something.
Lixy, from which source do you think, does he parrot his ideas?
If anything, he, his peers and the guys he looks up to should try out just about any book BUT the airy-fairy tales of muhammed.
[/quote]

Schwarzfahrer,

Although you and I don’t often agree. This spot was spot on!

322

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Lixy, from which source do you think, does he parrot his ideas? [/quote]

Which ones?

323

And while we’re on the subject of Mohammed:

"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.�??

– George Bernard Shaw in The Genuine Islam, 1936.

324

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
pat wrote:
I can’t wait to see Jesus come down and slaughter all the Jews. That has got to be the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

Christians think Christ will come back and convert the Jews to Christianity.

Hey, if Christ is supposed to come back to “kill the anti-Christ” why’d the Turks brick up the walls of Jerusalem where Christ is supposed to enter when he makes his return?[/quote]

No they don’t…Where did you get that shit from? Anybody who professes to know whats going to happen in the “end times” has got to be dumber than a bag of shit.

325

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I wonder if it would be alright with the Muslims here if we Christians be allowed to define our own faith - the faith “delivered to the saint?”

I hear ya. If in the 3rd Century, let’s say, the Christians decided to “change” their religion and make Christ rise from the dead and become the Son of God, what were their beliefs prior to this “change”?

Why would there be a religion called Christianity if the key and core beliefs were added centuries after the religion was originally founded?

[/quote]

Nothing “chaged” in the Counsel of Nicea, Read the letter’s of Peter and Paul. All they did was come to an understand as to what was gong to be taught uniformly so that folks couldn’t go around with there own interpretations. The early church had a lot of issues with heresy and they wanted to put a stop to it.

326

[quote]dyskee wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
If Muslims believe that Christ was a Prophet, why did they forsake his teaching?

we didn’t forsake his teachings we only acknowledge those that confirm what the koran says.

here is an answer for a similar question , the question was why don’t muslims use the bible or the torah and use the quran?

Because of a lack of textual authentication of both the Old and New Testaments (= the inability to trace them back to Moses or Jesus (pbuh) in continuous and perfect transmission), Muslims only acknowledge those parts of the texts which confirm what the Qur’an says, and nothing more.

The people of the Book (Jews) used to recite the Torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that, the Messenger of God said: ‘Do not believe the people of the Book or disbelieve them, but say: “We believe in God and what is revealed to us” (Qur’an 2:136)’.

In short,

Muslims use the Qur’an because it is the Final Testament, revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the last of the Messengers in the line of Prophets that began with Adam (pbuh).

While Muslims know that Prophets such as Moses and Jesus (pbuh) received revelations from God, they do not directly quote the current texts because Muslims say things about God and the Prophets only when they can be proven to have been spoken by Prophets in an unbroken chain of narration.

If there is any chance that forgery or doctrinal corruption has occurred, Muslims do not even quote an alleged saying of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or his companions let alone Prophets Moses or Jesus (pbut). This is because God has forbidden that people allege things about Him or His Prophets without knowledge or complete proof. This guards against the innovations that have led previous religions astray in the past.

So because God has revealed in the Qur’an that the revelations of Moses and Jesus (pbuh) have not been perfectly preserved, and because God clearly outlines examples of some serous doctrinal corruptions that have occurred, and because we find in historical reality that the same rigours of textual preservation that maintained the Qur’anic revelation were not used for the revelations of Moses and Jesus, Muslims abstain from directly using either text except in what the Qur’an already confirms to be true in them.

Moses and Jesus (pbut) are Prophets of Islam, and it is imperative (a pillar of faith) that Muslims believe in their Prophecy and in the books that God revealed to them, despite the fact that these texts were not handled with the utmost care by men that followed them.[/quote]

How do you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Qur’an has not been tampered with? I(pbum) mean heck, people use it as a proof to do vile and atrocious things to each other, are they reading the same book you are?

Second, the notion that one should accept only what the Qur’an teaches and disregard other texts looks like censorship to me. Censorship begets ignorance.

327

Why is imperative to “kill the Jews” btw? Is that what you lot are trying to do, fulfill the prophecy?

328

[quote]pat wrote:
How do you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Qur’an has not been tampered with? I(pbum) mean heck, people use it as a proof to do vile and atrocious things to each other, are they reading the same book you are? [/quote]

It’s no wonder you’re confused. I mean, you don’t even believe in relativism.

Where did you see anything about “disregard”?

329

Pat, one more question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad do you think God would consider the act of worshiping somebody other than Him?

330

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Again, very understandable, but how do you really know that the Qura’n has not become corrupted? And please don’t call up blind faith again.

Short answer: he doesn’t.

There is a Quranic verse which states that God protects the Quran from being corrupted. A self fulfilling prophecy if you will.

But as far as Abrahamic Books are concerned, the Quran is way ahead of the other two in terms of probability that it hasn’t been corrupted.[/quote]

Oh really? What about the Uthmanic recension? If there was no disagreement amongst the Qurra and the versions of the Qur’an laying around, why did Uthman burn them when he finished?

331

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

Are you just going to regurgitate Ahmed Deedat on this thread?

What is the Ahmed Deedat?[/quote]

The late Ahmed Deedat was a Muslim apologist whose various criticisms of Christianity consisted of setting up straw men and then knocking them over. See his rant about the dual nature of Christ as an example. Most of the arguments I’ve seen here from the Muslims regarding our faith look strangely similar to those of Deedat and this other guy named Zakir Naik. You can see them on YouTube.

332

[quote]lixy wrote:
Pat, one more question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad do you think God would consider the act of worshiping somebody other than Him?[/quote]

Considering it’s the first commandment, I’d consider it a “1”.

333

[quote]pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
Pat, one more question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad do you think God would consider the act of worshiping somebody other than Him?

Considering it’s the first commandment, I’d consider it a “1”.[/quote]

If Jesus was to show up tomorrow, would you worship him? If so, don’t you think it could be abused by someone unscrupulous?

334

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
Pat, one more question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad do you think God would consider the act of worshiping somebody other than Him?

Considering it’s the first commandment, I’d consider it a “1”.

If Jesus was to show up tomorrow, would you worship him? If so, don’t you think it could be abused by someone unscrupulous?[/quote]

Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You bet I would.

335

[quote]pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
Pat, one more question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad do you think God would consider the act of worshiping somebody other than Him?

Considering it’s the first commandment, I’d consider it a “1”.

If Jesus was to show up tomorrow, would you worship him? If so, don’t you think it could be abused by someone unscrupulous?

Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You bet I would.[/quote]

But do you see the potential for abuse or not?

336

[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
Muslims don’t see anything that the Prophet (pbuh) did as bad behavior. On the contrary they see it as the best behavior and divinely guided and that’s where Shariah is understood.

I am very familiar with the idea that our dear Mohammed is highly regarded by Muslims, but the idea that he was perfect is absolute rubbish. Heck, the idea is in direct contradiction of Surat 'Abasa (80).

Many of the prophet’s actions were divinely inspired, and he was certainly a righteous and mutaqi. But to say that nothing he ever did can be seen as “bad behavior” is being severely misinformed.

Crack open the Quran one of these days. You may end up learning something.[/quote]

lixy iam thankful that you are trying to guide me but why don’t u try to guide me in a nice way , i don’t know why u seem to offensive to me every time u give me advice . thank you i will look it up in the koran.

337

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
This thread is entertaining, but also kinda sad (not unusual for pious threads).

Dyskee, if you really think there will be a positive, islam-benefitting outcome of your “work” here, you must be mighty ignorant.

What do you expect, honestly?

If your aim was to sharpen your debating skills, kill some time, troll for fun and cyber-jihad, then OK, suit yourself.

Otherwise, grow up, as in, stop wasting time browsing the web and read some books - especially about science, politics and history.

also,

Crack open the Quran one of these days. You may end up learning something.
Lixy, from which source do you think, does he parrot his ideas?
If anything, he, his peers and the guys he looks up to should try out just about any book BUT the airy-fairy tales of muhammed.
[/quote]

Schwarzfahrer the outcome that i wanted was to try and show people the beauty of islam because it’s severely misinterpreted.
also because islam is being abused by alot of people to reach their own needs.

iam reading books all the time iam a physics and maths head i always like to read science books and actually iam in the middle of my senior year’s final exams the ones that will qualify me to college.

i don’t parrot any ideas i try to read alot about religion these days - which is something i never did before- so that i could answer you. if this thread is causing you all any discomfort ask the mods to delete it when people were angry a few threads ago i asked the mods to delete the thread but they said it was open for discussion if u all don’t like it iam not going to force something on you if u want me to stop posting in this thread i will just tell me to.

338

[quote]lixy wrote:
And while we’re on the subject of Mohammed:

"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.�??

– George Bernard Shaw in The Genuine Islam, 1936.[/quote]

nice quote is " the genuine islam" a book by george bernard shaw if it is can u tell me where to buy it from??

339

[quote]pat wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
I hear ya. If in the 3rd Century, let’s say, the Christians decided to “change” their religion and make Christ rise from the dead and become the Son of God, what were their beliefs prior to this “change”?

Why would there be a religion called Christianity if the key and core beliefs were added centuries after the religion was originally founded?

Nothing “chaged” in the Counsel of Nicea, Read the letter’s of Peter and Paul. All they did was come to an understand as to what was gong to be taught uniformly so that folks couldn’t go around with there own interpretations. The early church had a lot of issues with heresy and they wanted to put a stop to it. [/quote]

can u explain all this since we are discussing religion??

340

[quote]pat wrote:

How do you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Qur’an has not been tampered with? I(pbum) mean heck, people use it as a proof to do vile and atrocious things to each other, are they reading the same book you are?

Second, the notion that one should accept only what the Qur’an teaches and disregard other texts looks like censorship to me. Censorship begets ignorance.[/quote]

i mentioned before how the koran was preserved read it a few pages back.

plus god mentioned that he will protect the koran till the day of judgement.

and yes we all read the same book but we don’t all have the same brain.

for your second question muslims must believe in the bible and the torah to complete their faith. iam assuming that you are christian would u accept anything else aside from the bible and try to be honest.