About Islam

[dyskee]

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
If Muslims believe that Christ was a Prophet, why did they forsake his teaching?[/quote]

we didn’t forsake his teachings we only acknowledge those that confirm what the koran says.

here is an answer for a similar question , the question was why don’t muslims use the bible or the torah and use the quran?

Because of a lack of textual authentication of both the Old and New Testaments (= the inability to trace them back to Moses or Jesus (pbuh) in continuous and perfect transmission), Muslims only acknowledge those parts of the texts which confirm what the Qur’an says, and nothing more.

The people of the Book (Jews) used to recite the Torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that, the Messenger of God said: ‘Do not believe the people of the Book or disbelieve them, but say: “We believe in God and what is revealed to us” (Qur’an 2:136)’.

In short,

Muslims use the Qur’an because it is the Final Testament, revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the last of the Messengers in the line of Prophets that began with Adam (pbuh).

While Muslims know that Prophets such as Moses and Jesus (pbuh) received revelations from God, they do not directly quote the current texts because Muslims say things about God and the Prophets only when they can be proven to have been spoken by Prophets in an unbroken chain of narration.

If there is any chance that forgery or doctrinal corruption has occurred, Muslims do not even quote an alleged saying of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or his companions let alone Prophets Moses or Jesus (pbut). This is because God has forbidden that people allege things about Him or His Prophets without knowledge or complete proof. This guards against the innovations that have led previous religions astray in the past.

So because God has revealed in the Qur’an that the revelations of Moses and Jesus (pbuh) have not been perfectly preserved, and because God clearly outlines examples of some serous doctrinal corruptions that have occurred, and because we find in historical reality that the same rigours of textual preservation that maintained the Qur’anic revelation were not used for the revelations of Moses and Jesus, Muslims abstain from directly using either text except in what the Qur’an already confirms to be true in them.

Moses and Jesus (pbut) are Prophets of Islam, and it is imperative (a pillar of faith) that Muslims believe in their Prophecy and in the books that God revealed to them, despite the fact that these texts were not handled with the utmost care by men that followed them.

[dyskee]

yup no prob with civillians nor soldiers also unless his pointing a loaded weapon in ur face and is about to say " fire in the hole " lol

[dyskee]

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
pat wrote:
I can’t wait to see Jesus come down and slaughter all the Jews. That has got to be the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

Christians think Christ will come back and convert the Jews to Christianity.

Hey, if Christ is supposed to come back to “kill the anti-Christ” why’d the Turks brick up the walls of Jerusalem where Christ is supposed to enter when he makes his return?[/quote]

i actually have no idea of what ur talking about but i think if god wants this wall to be torn down in a blink of the eye it will.

[Makavali]

[quote]dyskee wrote:
In short,

Muslims use the Qur’an because it is the Final Testament, revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the last of the Messengers in the line of Prophets that began with Adam (pbuh).[/quote]

Um, is there any proof that the Qura’n is the Final Testament, or is that blind faith again?

While Muslims know that Prophets such as Moses and Jesus (pbuh) received revelations from God, they do not directly quote the current texts because Muslims say things about God and the Prophets only when they can be proven to have been spoken by Prophets in an unbroken chain of narration.

I agree with that. You don’t really know what anyone has said in the past without having heard them for yourself.

If there is any chance that forgery or doctrinal corruption has occurred, Muslims do not even quote an alleged saying of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or his companions let alone Prophets Moses or Jesus (pbut). This is because God has forbidden that people allege things about Him or His Prophets without knowledge or complete proof. This guards against the innovations that have led previous religions astray in the past.

Again, very understandable, but how do you really know that the Qura’n has not become corrupted? And please don’t call up blind faith again.

This in part justifies my belief that a persons chosen religion should be studied and they should live by the essence of it.

So because God has revealed in the Qur’an that the revelations of Moses and Jesus (pbuh) have not been perfectly preserved, and because God clearly outlines examples of some serous doctrinal corruptions that have occurred, and because we find in historical reality that the same rigours of textual preservation that maintained the Qur’anic revelation were not used for the revelations of Moses and Jesus, Muslims abstain from directly using either text except in what the Qur’an already confirms to be true in them.

A little hypocritical. The Qura’n is right, but the Bible is wrong? You can’t really know that. It’s likely, but the same could be said for the Qura’n too.

Moses and Jesus (pbut) are Prophets of Islam, and it is imperative (a pillar of faith) that Muslims believe in their Prophecy and in the books that God revealed to them, despite the fact that these texts were not handled with the utmost care by men that followed them.

Faith is determined by following something that could be wrong? But then you aren’t following the will of God. Surely that must be wrong!

[lixy]

[quote]dyskee wrote:
iam not really sure but basically we won’t be the ones to start a war unless we are attacked threatned , killed , u get my point right?[/quote]

Start a war? With what? Kofta? Saddam’s WMDs? Dr. No’s death ray?

[Makavali]

[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
iam not really sure but basically we won’t be the ones to start a war unless we are attacked threatned , killed , u get my point right?

Start a war? With what? Kofta? Saddam’s WMDs? Dr. No’s death ray?[/quote]

Definitely the death ray ftw.

[lixy]

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Again, very understandable, but how do you really know that the Qura’n has not become corrupted? And please don’t call up blind faith again. [/quote]

Short answer: he doesn’t.

There is a Quranic verse which states that God protects the Quran from being corrupted. A self fulfilling prophecy if you will.

But as far as Abrahamic Books are concerned, the Quran is way ahead of the other two in terms of probability that it hasn’t been corrupted.

[orion]

[quote]dyskee wrote:
orion wrote:
dk44 wrote:
This thread just made me realize that there is no such thing as a “moderate” muslim. Moderate = I’m not really a muslim but I have a Koran somewhere in my bookshelf.

That is what I am saying all along.

Corrupt them with fast food, porn and daytime television.

And I am completely serious.

Fat welfare slobs do not start djihads.

do you even know what is jihad? or ur just thinking that jehad is just whacking somebody for no reason?
[/quote]

It is not really important what a jihad is, because fat welfare slops do not blow themselves up nor are they interested in spiritual struggles.

[lixy]

[quote]orion wrote:
dyskee wrote:
orion wrote:
dk44 wrote:
This thread just made me realize that there is no such thing as a “moderate” muslim. Moderate = I’m not really a muslim but I have a Koran somewhere in my bookshelf.

That is what I am saying all along.

Corrupt them with fast food, porn and daytime television.

And I am completely serious.

Fat welfare slobs do not start djihads.

do you even know what is jihad? or ur just thinking that jehad is just whacking somebody for no reason?

It is not really important what a jihad is, because fat welfare slops do not blow themselves up nor are they interested in spiritual struggles. [/quote]

Dead or imprisoned people “do not blow themselves up nor are they interested in spiritual struggles” either.

I hear Bush is in on the secret.

[dyskee]

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
So when I read in Al-Azhar’s publication “The Reliance of the TRaveler” that jihad is “warfare for the spread of religion,” I’m to believe that most Muslims don’t believe the same way and that they interpret the Qur’an for themselves?

When Mohammed attacked the harmless Jews of the Khaibar oasis or attacked a caravan, I’m expected to believe that most Muslims see this as an example of bad behavior, even though Mohammed is an “uswa hasana”?

Please. [/quote]

Muslims don’t see anything that the Prophet (pbuh) did as bad behavior. On the contrary they see it as the best behavior and divinely guided and that’s where Shariah is understood. The reliance of the traveller is 100% accurate in the laws and concepts it outlines.

And it is true that Jihad can be used to spread the boundaries of the Islamic state, which means “spreading the religion” in the sense that the Laws of God are implemented across the land. However it doesn’t mean that the conquered people are forced to convert to Islam.
or that we would just start warfare unless atacked or threatned to be attacked

http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/ez/isl/0-sbm/Wanton.Destruction.html

Thirdly, the Jews of Khaibar were not harmless or innocent. They supported the pagans and other Jews who were fighting Muslims or trying to assassinate the Prophet (pbuh). So they died by the sword

witness-pioneer.org

please read the links so that you would understand

[dyskee]

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Um, is there any proof that the Qura’n is the Final Testament, or is that blind faith again?[/quote]

ok seriously now is way past ur bed time AND STOP COMMENTING ON THE BIG POSTS.URGHHH

yes there is because there hasn’t been any other god laid texts since the quran and because it’s mentioned in the quran alot that mohamed (pbuh)is the seal of prophets and that the quran is the last of holy books.

I agree with that. You don’t really know what anyone has said in the past without having heard them for yourself.

when they can be proven to have been spoken by Prophets in an unbroken chain of narration.

[quote]Again, very understandable, but how do you really know that the Qura’n has not become corrupted? And please don’t call up blind faith again.

This in part justifies my belief that a persons chosen religion should be studied and they should live by the essence of it.[/quote]

read lixy’s post to answer your first part, and for ur second part i somehow agree but i think that there are some rules that should be taken as they are and that some things should be lived by the essence.

A little hypocritical. The Qura’n is right, but the Bible is wrong? You can’t really know that. It’s likely, but the same could be said for the Qura’n too.

no not hypocritical a few pages ago i gave a reason why don’t muslims use the bible read it.

Faith is determined by following something that could be wrong? But then you aren’t following the will of God. Surely that must be wrong!

can’t get that one care to explain??

[dyskee]

[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
iam not really sure but basically we won’t be the ones to start a war unless we are attacked threatned , killed , u get my point right?

Start a war? With what? Kofta? Saddam’s WMDs? Dr. No’s death ray?[/quote]

start a war with faith and beleif in god i think this is enough.

ok kofta now iam sure ur not as civilized as u are trying to look lol.

ur from morroco , that’s cool. what are u studying in sweden and how old are you ? give me some status

[dyskee]

[quote]Chushin wrote:
dyskee wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Chushin wrote:
I’m starting to think we need to get as many Muslims from as many places as possible involved here.

I note that Lixy and dyskee don’t agree on everything. I think that is enough in itself. It’s good to have different views, but too many would just be confusing.

if u notice we argue about cultural differences i come from a 3rd world country he’s from europe so u get the idea.

Lixy is apparently content to let you believe something false.

Lixy is actually from Morocco, not Sweden. He’s in Sweden studying.[/quote]

he tricked me

[lixy]

[quote]dyskee wrote:
Muslims don’t see anything that the Prophet (pbuh) did as bad behavior. On the contrary they see it as the best behavior and divinely guided and that’s where Shariah is understood. [/quote]

I am very familiar with the idea that our dear Mohammed is highly regarded by Muslims, but the idea that he was perfect is absolute rubbish. Heck, the idea is in direct contradiction of Surat 'Abasa (80).

Many of the prophet’s actions were divinely inspired, and he was certainly a righteous and mutaqi. But to say that nothing he ever did can be seen as “bad behavior” is being severely misinformed.

Crack open the Quran one of these days. You may end up learning something.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Makavali wrote:
…
Only uncooked pork is bad for you. Would you eat raw chicken?
…[/quote]

Only at a wedding reception.

[lixy]

Here’s what an American Protestant Episcopal bishop (Rev. Bosworth Smith) wrote regarding the prophet Mohammed:

“Head of the State as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without the Pope’s pretensions, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. If ever a man ruled by a right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all the powers without their supports. He cared not for the dressings of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life.”

Excerpt from ‘Muhammad and Muhammadanism’, 1874.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]lixy wrote:
dyskee wrote:
iam not really sure but basically we won’t be the ones to start a war unless we are attacked threatned , killed , u get my point right?

Start a war? With what? Kofta? Saddam’s WMDs? Dr. No’s death ray?[/quote]

Saddam never started any wars. AQ never murdered thousands of civilians.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Again, very understandable, but how do you really know that the Qura’n has not become corrupted? And please don’t call up blind faith again.

Short answer: he doesn’t.

There is a Quranic verse which states that God protects the Quran from being corrupted. A self fulfilling prophecy if you will.

But as far as Abrahamic Books are concerned, the Quran is way ahead of the other two in terms of probability that it hasn’t been corrupted.[/quote]

lol

[Schwarzfahrer]

This thread is entertaining, but also kinda sad (not unusual for pious threads).

Dyskee, if you really think there will be a positive, islam-benefitting outcome of your “work” here, you must be mighty ignorant.

What do you expect, honestly?

If your aim was to sharpen your debating skills, kill some time, troll for fun and cyber-jihad, then OK, suit yourself.

Otherwise, grow up, as in, stop wasting time browsing the web and read some books - especially about science, politics and history.

also,

[quote]
Crack open the Quran one of these days. You may end up learning something.[/quote]
Lixy, from which source do you think, does he parrot his ideas?
If anything, he, his peers and the guys he looks up to should try out just about any book BUT the airy-fairy tales of muhammed.