ABBH II Problem

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

T-men,

I like ABBH I - I have trained very similar to that before I heard about it.

My beef is that the relatively heavy loading on Day 1 of the ABBH II program, but only 1 min rest between sets of the same body part, using your 7RM??!! Then, not only doing 3 sets of your 7RM nearly back to back, but then moving to another pressing movement for 3 more sets with nearly no rest??!!

I now CW knows his shit, but I didn’t think ATP could be replenished fast enough to optimally stress the white fast twitch fibers, while using the effort it takes to put up your 7RM for several sets with only 1 minute rest periods?!

Further, it would seem that the target muscle would soon develope an intense fluid pump. This means the cell walls will be impermeable or close to it, which hampers oxygen, nutrient transport, and waste removal - all essential to targetting white fast twitch fibers. In contrast to ABBH I where there was nearly 3 minutes between same-part movements, allowing 80-90% recovery.

[Has anyone actually seen solid hypertrophy/strength from the ABBH II, not just a ridiculously huge pump???]

2

Maybe you’re overestimating your 7RM. You only do three sets of five, so you should have a few in reserve. If anything, you would come close to failure on the last set and last rep. Only three sets of each exercise shouldn’t cause you to fail. The one-minute rest breaks are what help induce hypertrophy. If you take too long, it’ll be a strength routine with little gain in hypertrophy.

3

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Maybe you’re overestimating your 7RM. You only do three sets of five, so you should have a few in reserve. If anything, you would come close to failure on the last set and last rep. Only three sets of each exercise shouldn’t cause you to fail. The one-minute rest breaks are what help induce hypertrophy. If you take too long, it’ll be a strength routine with little gain in hypertrophy.
[/quote]

I’m not so sure about your muscle biology there Nate… I appreciate your general training knowledge, as evident in other threads. But, while I’m by NO means an expert, from both my studies in exercise physiology and from personal experience, I have to disagree quite strongly.

Hypertrophy can be initialized by many different set, rep, TUT schemes. Longer rest periods allow for more ATP to be synthesized so the next bout can be more productive. Since white fast twitch fibers have the greatest potential for growth and they also require the most readily available energy (stored as ATP energy), decent rest periods will greatly enhance their stimulation. Why are powerlifters so big if the best way to reach hypertrophy is with short rest periods??? I doubt you could find a big and strong powerlifter than takes anything less than a 3 min rest between working sets, regardless of program. Further, have you ever heard of/used rest pauses??? Rest pauses are some of the best hypertrophy/strength movements that Charles Poloquin prescibes! The whole point is to allow a mini recovery between reps, and an even longer rest period between sets to keep ATP at peak levels and prevent pumps (both of which mean more power per rep = better white twitch stimulation!).

Further, lifting schemes with short rest periods tend to make the muscle cell walls increasingly more impermeable. This is anti-productive for strength/mass training, since this means nutrients, oxygen, and wastes cannot be transfered. If you are in the 20-25 rep range, training for a triatholon, this is helpful.

Not to mention, the energy used in resistance exercises is intracellular (internal), since the cell walls are impermeable during contraction. As the ATP stores are quickly burned by white fast twitch fiber, the cell walls tend to stay impermeable until sufficient ATP has been synthesized, as a natural safety valve in case prolonged contraction occured. Eeventually this would cause anaerobic contractive failure (besides the free phosphate and lactic acid). To combat this, sufficient recovery is needed. If you “rush” the recovery, the cell perceives that as a prolonged contraction and the cell wall will again quickly become immpermeable leading to pre-mature failure.

If this program is designed to work red fast twitch fibers, than it would probably be set up in the 10-12 rep range, where lesser rest periods might be okay and one could get decent hupertrophy.

You also didn’t address that fact that as I read the ABBH II it prescribed to hit ALL chest movements in successive sets (6 total)! So, maybe 3 would be borderline, but 6 sets with only 60 seconds rest using your 7RM is not productive in my book!

Thoughts/comments/experiences everyone?!?!

TopSirloin

4

TopSirlion,

You make some valid points, and your queries are justified. In fact, that’s precisely why the programs are given the respective title.

Performing 6 x 5 with a 7RM and 60s rest periods is a viable option for ~70% of the individuals I encounter. One of the downfalls to prescribing set/rep/rest parameters for all of the T-Nation readers is just that - there’s a lot of different levels of conditioning I must cater to within a single set of parameters. In other words, no matter how great a program is, certain individuals will need to adjust based on their current state of conditioning.

As I mentioned, I chose 60s rest periods b/c the majority of trainees can accomplish the task. For others, an increase in rest of 15-30s per set is mandated. Others need to simply reduce the load to a 8RM. The ABBH program is based on 10 sets of given exercise with only 60s rest periods and a 5RM, and tons of trainees have had great success with the program.

ATP and nervous system recovery is highly individualized. I have clients who can easily perform 10 x 3 with 60s rest periods and a 5RM. They are very neuro-efficient. Other less neurologically efficient and substrate depleted individuals (e.g. low carb dieters), need longer rest or a decrease in loading.

The aim of the program is to not only tax the Type IIB motor units (white fibers you mentioned) but also the Type IIA motor units which also have a high potential for growth (that’s what GVT is based on). Therefore, full recovery between sets is not needed or desired on the ABBH I and II programs. And that’s precisely the reason why I recommend leaving a few reps in the hole, initially.

Bottom line: adjust the load so you can keep the parameters precisely as prescribed.

5

What Chad said, and he said it much better than I could have explained.

Like you said: [quote]Hypertrophy can be initialized by many different set, rep, TUT schemes.[/quote]

As Chad noted, this is another approach for the same result (hypertrophy). Also, as noted, you may need to adjust the program based on your individual genetic makeup/abilities.

6

I appreciate the feedback fellas.

C-dub,

I suppose I have a more “elite” background than that 70% of the trainees you mention. I say that not as if I’m better than anyone, I just take on a “higher performance” attitude… lot’s of go, and some show. I’m a former collegiate D-line starter and national level hammer thrower… so that’s why I challenged this program so much. It’s completely different from what I have found to produce strength and size, and I have done a lot of programs. But, different is good when it comes to keeping the body from stagnating. Plus, I know there are certainly more advanced paths to hypertrophy that I have used.

I’m working on more of a body builders (or should I say fitness for CW) attitude to allow me to experiment well outside of the elite athletics box. Shit… I’m still doing heavy clean singles in a fancy Powerhouse Gym! Talk about getting some weird looks! [And they wonder why I have a scale model of the rocky mountains on either side of my neck!].

I digress… I guess it wouldn’t hurt me try it, since it’s not like I made the 2004 Oly team. I will give the ABBH II a shot, after I get off the first phase and hit an a dynamic/plyometric week. I’ll let you know what I think of it.

Thanks again - this site is the best training tool a trainee or coach could hope for.

TopSirloin

7

TopSirlion,

Sounds good.

One point of clarification, the ABBH I and II programs are not for maximal strength. They’re hypertrophy programs that don’t decrease maximal strength levels. If you’re looking for pure maximal strength, my Strength Focused Mesocycle or Single’s Club is a better option.

Anyway, give it a try when you get a chance and let me know what you think.