A Large Man's Pullup Dilemma

Bigger Stronger Leaner
41

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]Goldie4545 wrote:
I thought your primary goal was weight loss, and secondary goal was getting better at the big 3?

Since you describe your current weight as 280, which was what it was a month ago, it appears you are not making progress on your primary goal. Have you considered how much easier pull-ups will be if you focus on your primary goal?

How are your big 3 coming? Not trying to bust your balls, but you may be suffering from the dreaded beginner’s boredom/fantasy disease, where once newbie gains slow down the trainee begins to seek out other arbitrary goals like getting good at pull ups for no particular reason at all.

If you are still committed to your goals, I can assure you there are many top tier powerlifters who never do pull-ups. There are no mandatory exercises. If you really want to get better at pull-ups, then go for it. There is nothing wrong with that. However, if you are doing it because you think you “have to” be good at pull-ups, then please reconsider.[/quote]

My goals have not changed, so this particular dilemma is being confronted in that context. The pullup dillema is, all things considered, a minor crossroad for me since being able to actually do a pullup is a new development for me.

My weight has held steady the last five weeks or so, but I have been making gains on the big 3 as well as my front squat, so I consider that progress. I also need to get better at dieting. And better at not going to the bar to watch playoff hockey and having weeknight beers. And better at a lot of other stuff too, but that is a whole other thread.

Thanks for the insight![/quote]

If you weigh 280 and weight loss is your #1 goal then you need to seriously address your diet. Saying your weight “held steady” is another way of saying you have failed at fat loss for the last 5 weeks. So what is holding you back? Diet takes takes more discipline than getting to the gym and working out. It sounds like your progress on the Big 3 is a way for you to pat yourself on the back and compensate for your failure on the diet.

This is not intended to be mean in any way, but just a kick in the butt to get serious with what you claim is your #1 goal.[/quote]

What’s holding me back?

A lifetime of bad eating habits, playoff hockey, beer during the week and not executing my diet plan. I certainly know what I need to be doing, so I can’t claim ignorance.

The last 5 months have been like this for me. I’ll go through periods of stagnation on weight loss, lose a pound here, lose a pound there, but strength continues to build the entire time and I have not been gaining weight. You’re right, however, in that I am not crushing my fat loss goals right now. In my defense, I am trending in a good direction and have been for over a year now, plus I am having lots of fun with the whole process.

If I was as consistent in the kitchen as I am in the weight room I’d be at sub 15% BF and on a serious bulk right now. I just need to improve. I suppose I should start with logging my bodyweight in addition to my workouts on my log.

I never mind a little kick in the ass. Thanks!
[/quote]

You know, after watching your videos, I wouldn’t be worried about losing strength while losing weight as you have the drive and intenity that so many lack. Even if you do lose strength you’ll gain it all back and more easily with this approach.

Btw, don’t bend your arms and jerk the weight up at the start of the deadlift, especially on maximal sets or you will very likely tear a bicep one day.

42

Thanks dt79.

I hope you are right. I suppose we’ll find out once I get my ass in gear and start executing what I know I need to do in the kitchen.

I also see what you mean about my deadlift. The front page article today also gave me some stuff to chew on. Two things I will work on next week are…

  1. Getting the slack out of the bar before exploding upward and not jerking it with my arms

  2. Do my little hyperventilating and psych-up routine while standing up to limit my time in a crouched position

Oh, and I’ll be doing some pullups throughout the week as well. I am going to see how many medium grip supinated pullups I can do tonight after my main work is done.

43

I love pull ups. Sometimes I do two or three sessions of pull ups in a day, and do them a minimum of four days per week. This is my advice:
Do them at least every other day.
Practice doing them perfectly, don’t go to failure.
Last set of a session hold at the top and do a slow negative.
Stop doing wide grip pull ups, at most have your hands just outside the shoulders. Wide grip really doesn’y have any advantage, but it does decrease range of motion and play havoc on the joints.
If you have monkey bars nearby, do parallel grip pull ups.
Chin ups (palms facing you) can really do some tendon andjoint damage.
Try to pull your elbows back instead of pulling with the arms.
Start from a dead hang. It doesn’t matter at first if your chin doesn’t go over the bar, as long as the movement is smooth and you don’t strain too much.
A LITTLE cheating is ok to get the rep going, but don’t do those kipping things.

This is just from years of personal experience down in the park and doing bar stuff to help with weightlifting. Bottom line is if the movement is good and you practice them without trying to destroy yoursel, pretty much anything will help.

44

[quote]joeloly wrote:
… don’t go to failure… [/quote]

Priceless. He said can do ONE pullup.

45

[quote]Goldie4545 wrote:

[quote]joeloly wrote:
… don’t go to failure… [/quote]

Priceless. He said can do ONE pullup.[/quote]

Sometimes people get excited when they see a thread topic and, eager to give THEIR OPINION, they start typing without reading OP’s question. It happens.

46

2448×3264 1.82 MB

This should help

47

2448×3264 1.59 MB

Or

48

Are those orifices?

49

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
Are those orifices?[/quote]

There bands 1st pic has 2 smaller ones, the second has one large one either ways works.

50

Bands are terrible. They offer the most assistance when it is needed least.
Check your form on pulldowns. If you are doing them the way that most people do them it is going to be hard to transition to BW chins.
Negatives should help. I wouldn’t go too slow, but rather do more. 5 second negatives starting every 20 seconds perhaps 5 seconds down, 15 second rest. Too easy, go to starting every 15 seconds, 5 neg 10sec rest.
If you are doing splits, do that one chin that you can currently do every workout, at least 10 times.

On pulldowns, raise the thigh pad and have it touch your upper belly. Make sure your reps are done so that you don’t break that contact. Can you hold top of the rep for a solid 3 seconds?

Does your gym have gravity assist machine? If so find what it takes to do 10 reps and start increasing the density of the work for 20 reps. 2 reps every minute for 10 minutes, should be easy, then 7 sets of 3 starting on every minute. Success? sets of 4 at the top of the minute for 5 minutes, then 5 reps for 4 minutes…Success? retest and find your new 10 rep max. If you want to start with a different rep max find your 8 rep max and do the work for 16…I’m sure you can figure out the progression. As this is not a heavy volume day you could do this pretty damn often.

I’m with you on this. I can’t do them well and I am doing the gravity assist progression myself.
I remember someone telling me…“barring injury, if you can’t do a lot of pullups you’re either too fat or too weak or both”

51

[quote]Goldie4545 wrote:

[quote]joeloly wrote:
… don’t go to failure… [/quote]

Priceless. He said can do ONE pullup.[/quote]
Just general advice on improving. I also said use a bit of cheating to help out the pull up. You could get another one maybe two if you do this, as it has the effect of making your body “lighter” because of momentum. but doing it until your arms and back feel like they’ll rip can still happen. Plus is doesn’t just mean in one set. If you do five, six, ten sets of singles, you can stop when you feel you’re using too much strain to complete the reps and maybe do four singles.

52

[quote]Goldie4545 wrote:

[quote]joeloly wrote:
… don’t go to failure… [/quote]

Priceless. He said can do ONE pullup.[/quote]
Just general advice on improving. I also said use a bit of cheating to help out the pull up. You could get another one maybe two if you do this, as it has the effect of making your body “lighter” because of momentum. but doing it until your arms and back feel like they’ll rip can still happen. Plus is doesn’t just mean in one set. If you do five, six, ten sets of singles, you can stop when you feel you’re using too much strain to complete the reps and maybe do four singles.

53

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Bands are terrible. They offer the most assistance when it is needed least.
Check your form on pulldowns. If you are doing them the way that most people do them it is going to be hard to transition to BW chins.
Negatives should help. I wouldn’t go too slow, but rather do more. 5 second negatives starting every 20 seconds perhaps 5 seconds down, 15 second rest. Too easy, go to starting every 15 seconds, 5 neg 10sec rest.
If you are doing splits, do that one chin that you can currently do every workout, at least 10 times.

On pulldowns, raise the thigh pad and have it touch your upper belly. Make sure your reps are done so that you don’t break that contact. Can you hold top of the rep for a solid 3 seconds?

Does your gym have gravity assist machine? If so find what it takes to do 10 reps and start increasing the density of the work for 20 reps. 2 reps every minute for 10 minutes, should be easy, then 7 sets of 3 starting on every minute. Success? sets of 4 at the top of the minute for 5 minutes, then 5 reps for 4 minutes…Success? retest and find your new 10 rep max. If you want to start with a different rep max find your 8 rep max and do the work for 16…I’m sure you can figure out the progression. As this is not a heavy volume day you could do this pretty damn often.

I’m with you on this. I can’t do them well and I am doing the gravity assist progression myself.
I remember someone telling me…“barring injury, if you can’t do a lot of pullups you’re either too fat or too weak or both” [/quote]

I would disagree about the bands. The shit ain’t rocket science . If you can only do one pull up use a band to where you can do like 2-5 pullups take enough time in between sets so that you can do another 2-5. 3 sets or more is prob good starting out. I would say this in general; wait 2 days before your next pull up session since your begining but how ever you feel on the bar should be a pretty good indicator of you next session

54

[quote]krpv wrote:

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Bands are terrible. They offer the most assistance when it is needed least.
Check your form on pulldowns. If you are doing them the way that most people do them it is going to be hard to transition to BW chins.
Negatives should help. I wouldn’t go too slow, but rather do more. 5 second negatives starting every 20 seconds perhaps 5 seconds down, 15 second rest. Too easy, go to starting every 15 seconds, 5 neg 10sec rest.
If you are doing splits, do that one chin that you can currently do every workout, at least 10 times.

On pulldowns, raise the thigh pad and have it touch your upper belly. Make sure your reps are done so that you don’t break that contact. Can you hold top of the rep for a solid 3 seconds?

Does your gym have gravity assist machine? If so find what it takes to do 10 reps and start increasing the density of the work for 20 reps. 2 reps every minute for 10 minutes, should be easy, then 7 sets of 3 starting on every minute. Success? sets of 4 at the top of the minute for 5 minutes, then 5 reps for 4 minutes…Success? retest and find your new 10 rep max. If you want to start with a different rep max find your 8 rep max and do the work for 16…I’m sure you can figure out the progression. As this is not a heavy volume day you could do this pretty damn often.

I’m with you on this. I can’t do them well and I am doing the gravity assist progression myself.
I remember someone telling me…“barring injury, if you can’t do a lot of pullups you’re either too fat or too weak or both” [/quote]

I would disagree about the bands. The shit ain’t rocket science . If you can only do one pull up use a band to where you can do like 2-5 pullups take enough time in between sets so that you can do another 2-5. 3 sets or more is prob good starting out. I would say this in general; wait 2 days before your next pull up session since your begining but how ever you feel on the bar should be a pretty good indicator of you next session
[/quote]
That’s cool to disagree. OP can try and see what works for himself

55

I read somewhere that pull ups aren’t typically a good assistance exercise for guys over 250. Not sure where I read it but it was a reputable source. Ill search around

56

Thanks again to everyone for all of the great ideas. I’d like to follow up and let everyone know what I’ve been up to.

  1. I’ve kept lat pulldowns where they were slotted before with no change in volume.

  2. I am trying to remember to do a few pullups at least every time I lift. Sometimes I forget, as I am a creature of habit. They are hard, and I can really feel them the next day. My best right now is 3 medium-grip pronated pullups (starting from a dead hang - no cheat).

  3. I am still just as large as when I started this thread. I’ve been kicking that can down the road during hockey playoffs. Fat loss will be re-prioritized after the Bruins run is over. I’m sure I will miraculously get better at pullups as I get back to shedding fat.

57

Use negatives. I do them at the end of sets when I physically can’t do another pullup. Use or a bench or stool. Or if you’re doing them in a power rack move the safety so it’s at a good height then put your foot on it and boost yourself to the top, then lower yourself down in the pullup position as slowly as possible.