I agree with Court re: Sumo, I think women are just built with the hips to do it.
I also know I’ve always had trouble getting the form for conventional DLs down, my knees get beat to hell. Sumo just feels more natural to me.
Court and PMPM are right-
its about mechanics I have decent sized legs
but very narrow and tight hips box squats and sumo kill me I need to ice that night and the next day where as front squats , and olympic style ATG feel awesome
and really it lets women or other lifters
tap into some of the biggest movers/levers in the body- hips glutes and hams- which are stronger then quads low back ect.
I am pulling withen small pounds, about 20 ,snatch grip vs conventional, which tells me I am able to use more upper back and long arms to an advantage.
But is also leaves my lower back fatigued
do to the longer ROM…
I guess this is the vestiges of attempting
school for kineseology
OBS I do think you would benifit from turning your feet out- like a ballet dancer , feet almost parrallel to the bar
middle aged puppet type guy
kmc
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Court and PMPM are right-
its about mechanics I have decent sized legs
but very narrow and tight hips box squats and sumo kill me I need to ice that night and the next day where as front squats , and olympic style ATG feel awesome
and really it lets women or other lifters
tap into some of the biggest movers/levers in the body- hips glutes and hams- which are stronger then quads low back ect.
I am pulling withen small pounds, about 20 ,snatch grip vs conventional, which tells me I am able to use more upper back and long arms to an advantage.
But is also leaves my lower back fatigued
do to the longer ROM…
I guess this is the vestiges of attempting
school for kineseology
OBS I do think you would benifit from turning your feet out- like a ballet dancer , feet almost parrallel to the bar
middle aged puppet type guy
kmc
[/quote]
I will try turning my feet out on Sunday and see how it feels. The drawback is that it puts you in a disadvantaged position at lock out in that it increases the possibility of pulling a PMPM (going ass over tea kettle backwards)
However, I think we’d all like to hear more about the narrow, tight hips 
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
I will try turning my feet out on Sunday and see how it feels. The drawback is that it puts you in a disadvantaged position at lock out in that it increases the possibility of pulling a PMPM (going ass over tea kettle backwards)
However, I think we’d all like to hear more about the narrow, tight hips :)[/quote]
sigh
It is uncomfortable , I see all the bun heads- read dancers- who walk with duck feet, when they jump their feet are at almost 180 degrees
“opening up the hips” verses feet straight-
hips turned in on themselves- it lets you push out much harder with your knees.
hard to explalin easy to “feel” and its like edevloping an arch for bench the posture comeswith practice.
My legs are off something in length like 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch - and its starts at the hip-
that knee and ankle turn in- or cave in-
and they made my chior a ton of cash.
if you must know-
kmc
[quote]pushmepullme wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
I will try turning my feet out on Sunday and see how it feels. The drawback is that it puts you in a disadvantaged position at lock out in that it increases the possibility of pulling a PMPM (going ass over tea kettle backwards)
However, I think we’d all like to hear more about the narrow, tight hips
sigh[/quote]
I think we should coin the term 'pulling a pmpm" and submit it to Wikipedia.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
It is uncomfortable , I see all the bun heads- read dancers- who walk with duck feet, when they jump their feet are at almost 180 degrees
“opening up the hips” verses feet straight-
hips turned in on themselves- it lets you push out much harder with your knees.
hard to explalin easy to “feel” and its like edevloping an arch for bench the posture comeswith practice.
My legs are off something in length like 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch - and its starts at the hip-
that knee and ankle turn in- or cave in-
and they made my chior a ton of cash.
if you must know-
kmc[/quote]
It isn’t that I ‘need’ to know. I just want to know. I’m the queen of intrusive personal questions. That would be a nice cash source for your chiro.
I can see how you could push harder with your knees. I have actually tried it before and can’t quite remember whether my body liked it. I have no problem turning my feet out so they are in a straight line. I have flexible hips; probably from years of gymnastics when I was much younger.
ok
I wear a 30" inseam on jeans/slacks etc
and a 32" waist I can fit a 30" or 31"waist
but they would not fit over my thighs or ass.
where my hips, obliques and lower abs meet
I have veins-
there sigh no more
kmc
Okay, so a mini vent.
I;m having computer issues and the very effeminate computer guy is here trying to fix it. He keeps asking me questions about my meets and whatnot which is friendly enough.
He then goes off on a tangent about these two female body builders at his rotary club and how unnatural it looks on a woman. That made me laugh coming from such an effeminate man.
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Okay, so a mini vent.
I;m having computer issues and the very effeminate computer guy is here trying to fix it. He keeps asking me questions about my meets and whatnot which is friendly enough.
He then goes off on a tangent about these two female body builders at his rotary club and how unnatural it looks on a woman. That made me laugh coming from such an effeminate man.[/quote]
So girly men are a turn on? 
Tell him you are here to Pump him up! Listen to me now, here me later, understand me next week, yeah.
[quote]Free2Be wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
Okay, so a mini vent.
I;m having computer issues and the very effeminate computer guy is here trying to fix it. He keeps asking me questions about my meets and whatnot which is friendly enough.
He then goes off on a tangent about these two female body builders at his rotary club and how unnatural it looks on a woman. That made me laugh coming from such an effeminate man.
So girly men are a turn on?
Tell him you are here to Pump him up! Listen to me now, here me later, understand me next week, yeah.[/quote]
Effeminate men don’t do it for me at all. In fact, I have to resist the urge to punch him in the face. He wears these leather outfits that squeak when he moves. He’s so soft spoken, I can’t hear him speak over the squeaking leather suit. I actually made him cry once. It was quite awkward. I couldn’t hear it over the suit but I could see the tears.
Rotary club and leather pants-
is he stuck in the 70’s?
in the big city we call that small town fag.
sometimes they are just working too hard.
listen play nice with the queen-
get him a gift card to a coffee place
ask him kindly to fix your shit and not talk to you.
kmc
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Effeminate men don’t do it for me at all. In fact, I have to resist the urge to punch him in the face. He wears these leather outfits that squeak when he moves. He’s so soft spoken, I can’t hear him speak over the squeaking leather suit. I actually made him cry once. It was quite awkward. I couldn’t hear it over the suit but I could see the tears.[/quote]
Fine. I’ll go post somewhere where my monstrous ass in tight leather can be appreciated. Like Meatwinkle’s thread…
[quote]mjnewland wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
Effeminate men don’t do it for me at all. In fact, I have to resist the urge to punch him in the face. He wears these leather outfits that squeak when he moves. He’s so soft spoken, I can’t hear him speak over the squeaking leather suit. I actually made him cry once. It was quite awkward. I couldn’t hear it over the suit but I could see the tears.
Fine. I’ll go post somewhere where my monstrous ass in tight leather can be appreciated. Like Meatwinkle’s thread…[/quote]
Somehow it wouldn’t be bad if he were big. He’s as thin as a toothpick. He needs a sandwich. The funny thing is that he’s married. I’ve actually met his wife. I guess he never got the memo “Dude, you’re gay”.
Mr. Mjnewland, can you build a squat rack? I’d appreciate that like you wouldn’t believe.
I think I have tribulus/creatine rage.
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
mjnewland wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
Effeminate men don’t do it for me at all. In fact, I have to resist the urge to punch him in the face. He wears these leather outfits that squeak when he moves. He’s so soft spoken, I can’t hear him speak over the squeaking leather suit. I actually made him cry once. It was quite awkward. I couldn’t hear it over the suit but I could see the tears.
Fine. I’ll go post somewhere where my monstrous ass in tight leather can be appreciated. Like Meatwinkle’s thread…
Somehow it wouldn’t be bad if he were big. He’s as thin as a toothpick. He needs a sandwich. The funny thing is that he’s married. I’ve actually met his wife. I guess he never got the memo “Dude, you’re gay”.
Mr. Mjnewland, can you build a squat rack? I’d appreciate that like you wouldn’t believe.
I think I have tribulus/creatine rage.[/quote]
Better than Beta-Alanione rage, I was in such a foul mood today I told a guy in the squat rack “You know they have an entire section over there for weak guys to curl in”
Yeah, yeah what a bastard but you don’t need to be in the rack to curl 60 freaking pounds.
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Here is DL. I can’t remember what set it was. It felt good but I"m surprised to see how much rounding I’m getting in my mid/lower back as I get more tired. I guess I know one more thing I need to focus on.
I was focusing on spreading the floor with my feet and driving through with my hips. My attempt to fuck the bar looks more like a gentle romance. I’m surprised Barry White isn’t playing in the background.[/quote]
oh man, your a riot…LOL!!
Squats and deads looked good…but you already know what you need work on…I noticed the caving of the knees too…
I’m learning a lot from all the cool tips and advice people are giving you…
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Here is DL. I can’t remember what set it was. It felt good but I"m surprised to see how much rounding I’m getting in my mid/lower back as I get more tired. I guess I know one more thing I need to focus on.
I was focusing on spreading the floor with my feet and driving through with my hips. My attempt to fuck the bar looks more like a gentle romance. I’m surprised Barry White isn’t playing in the background.[/quote]
it’s good to see that you are analyzing your form as well.
your lower back is rounding because you are initiating the lift by lifting up on the bar. next time you deadlift i want you to set up like you normally do but lift your toes up and keep them up the entire time. this will put you back on your heels. you need to start the lift with your weight on your heels. another thing that i want you to experiment with is start with the bar about 6 inches away from you shins. i want you to set your grip and pull the bar back to your shins. as it reaches your shins, spread the floor by pushing your knees out hard and continue with the lift.
here’s another technique to experiment with- drop the weight to about 505 of your max. set up like normal, set your grip but i want you to perform the first half of the lift to the knees only using the hips, quads and groin. in other words, don’t use the lower back at all. i want you to squat the weight up to the knees, then back down. get it on video so i can see how you do with this.
don’t worry about the lockout yet. i would like to see you get the initial breaking it off the floor down first.
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Squat video. Shorts are longer. I cut of a set of capris.
This is set 4 of 5, doing 4 doubles (clusters) 165 lbs. I did the same thing getting under the bar again 7-8 seconds after racking it. I took my time setting up and went a bit slower. My knees didn’t cave as much as before but my elbows could be farther forward. I caught myself most times extending my neck. It felt better today.[/quote]
you know what you need to work on. i would like to see you concentrate your full attention on getting those elbows under the bar. i can see you forcing them forward when you get into trouble with the weight in front of you. it’s gonna be hard and uncomfortable but those elbows need to be pointed straight down to the floor the entire time. then as you drive out of the hole they need to come forward. until that happens the weight is going to keep getting in front of you.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
Squat video. Shorts are longer. I cut of a set of capris.
This is set 4 of 5, doing 4 doubles (clusters) 165 lbs. I did the same thing getting under the bar again 7-8 seconds after racking it. I took my time setting up and went a bit slower. My knees didn’t cave as much as before but my elbows could be farther forward. I caught myself most times extending my neck. It felt better today.
you know what you need to work on. i would like to see you concentrate your full attention on getting those elbows under the bar. i can see you forcing them forward when you get into trouble with the weight in front of you. it’s gonna be hard and uncomfortable but those elbows need to be pointed straight down to the floor the entire time. then as you drive out of the hole they need to come forward. until that happens the weight is going to keep getting in front of you.
[/quote]
Thanks very much. I’m going to try the light deadlift to knees tomorrow night and tape it.
You are right about the elbows. It’s going to be about retraining my automatic set up. I think I’ve had 4 days now with forcing my elbows forward. It’s better but as I get tired, my body starts reverting to old habits. It’s almost more mental than physical.
You should see the state of my back. I have scabs in three or four spots from having the bar on it. Clearly this is going to take a bit of work.
Tuesday May 5, GL Burlington
5 minutes elliptical
10 minutes mobility
A Squat
1x10x45
1x5x95
1x5x135
1x3x165
(1x5) x5 - 10 seconds 185 (25 reps)
1x11x135
My non-boyfriend showed up today during squats and spotted me and cheered me on. He started squatting as well but ended up doing something bad to his quad. I asked him to video and got a few reps of the last set. I could really see my form break down as I got more tired. It wasn’t hideous but my elbows were drifting back again.
B Bench
1x10x45
1x5x65
1x3x95
(1x5) x3 - 10 seconds 100(15 reps)
I had to drop the weight for the last two sets. I was really struggling with 100. I don’t like doing these short clusters on bench. The set up really wears me out.
(1x5) x2 - 10 seconds 95(10 reps)
I had a spotter who spent most of the time with his bag on my forehead. It was like a Rehband forehead sleeve.
C DB set ups
3x8x40
I went up on a bench which was must more difficult than the box I used last week. Higher and less stability.
D1 GHR
3x10
D2 Bar rollout
3x10
I skipped the one legged squat to box. I was tapped out. I was only supposed to do 6/side on the db step ups and two sets of GHRs and bar rollouts. My attention to detail sucks ass.
On the bright side, Mr. teabag emailed me some good information on flights to Prague.