I agree with what you are saying regarding no single approach is best and that an 8 x 8 program should not be used by a beginner. A beginner could do an 8 x 8 program; however, the beginner might be served better by doing more frequency with less volume per workout:ie: total body workout with 3 sets per body part every other day or an alternating lower/upper body program twice a week. As you said though, for a beginner any craps work.
For the advanced lifter, an 8 x 8 program might work as a change up but even then its not something one should follow long term. Periodization becomes more and more critical as one gets more advanced; and this means changing things up constantly.
I agree that there is no single best system. As you progress and become more advanced I find the following starts to hold true:
Whatever program you are currently following is probably the one you should not be following (meaning its time to change it up…ie: if your doing mass; its time to go to strengh or vica versa).
I agree with what you are saying regarding no single approach is best and that an 8 x 8 program should not be used by a beginner. A beginner could do an 8 x 8 program; however, the beginner might be served better by doing more frequency with less volume per workout:ie: total body workout with 3 sets per body part every other day or an alternating lower/upper body program twice a week. As you said though, for a beginner any craps work.
For the advanced lifter, an 8 x 8 program might work as a change up but even then its not something one should follow long term. Periodization becomes more and more critical as one gets more advanced; and this means changing things up constantly.
I agree that there is no single best system. As you progress and become more advanced I find the following starts to hold true:
Whatever program you are currently following is probably the one you should not be following (meaning its time to change it up…ie: if your doing mass; its time to go to strengh or vica versa).
[/quote]
Why do you guys seperate mass and strength in regards to BBing?
What do you personally think makes you bigger? (not trying to get into an argument here, just asking)
2 Hypertrophy Plans
1 Strength Plan
1 Compound Lift Assistance Excercise Plan
I dont necessararily (?) seperate the 2 but if i stop adding pounds to the bar or stop any other progression then i will switch to a strength plan and any compound lift totally stalls i will switch it to the cl assistance program.
Why do you guys seperate mass and strength in regards to BBing?
What do you personally think makes you bigger? (not trying to get into an argument here, just asking)[/quote]
They are not seperate - you cannot get bigger without getting stronger, you cannot get stronger without getting bigger - there is one exception - if you are already strong and stop your strength focus for a size focus, if you continue that for awhile, you can detrain your strength.
And vice versa. There is no getting around this - you use it, or lose it, and if you are straining your body in another focus, your body will shift resources away from maintaining strength to recovering from high volume.
That generally shouldn’t matter though you can get it back again fast enough, but it isn’t good if you are competing in a strength event (or if you lose size before a BB show).
Also, it is not a 1:1 relationship. You can build size, and increase strength, but with bigger size than strength gains. Or vice versa.
Better size gains usually with higher volume and reps say 8-15 … better strength focus with lower volume and reps 1-7. That is a rough guide.
If you focus on size for 2 weeks and then strength for 2 weeks you will probably get better results in both, than if you focus on one or the other for the entire 4 weeks. Again, that is just a rough guide. Depends on what level you are at etc…
You see, the two approaches tax your body in different ways. So you can recover from one whilst working the other.
It is much easier to work on strength once you have built some size up. Size is not an indicator of strength, but an indicator of potential for strength - which may or may not have been realised.
Note that whenever I say “strength” I am talking about strength in a rep range of 1-3 … that’s not particularly fair to restrict it like that, obviously if you are doing reps of 8-15 you are increasing your strength in that rep range.
Personally I call that stamina, and anything above it, endurance. These are just words though … they cause a lot of arguments.
Oh yeah - and I don’t seperate them, I’m using my own westside style template and working everything at once. I like it lots. When it stops working I will do something else.
[quote]300andabove wrote:
In regards to myself i have :
2 Hypertrophy Plans
1 Strength Plan
1 Compound Lift Assistance Excercise Plan
I dont necessararily (?) seperate the 2 but if i stop adding pounds to the bar or stop any other progression then i will switch to a strength plan and any compound lift totally stalls i will switch it to the cl assistance program.[/quote]
So did you pick those 5 programs out from day one?
How long did it take you to amass these programs? Obviously I’m asking because you find it so hard to believe that I’m figuring my shit out slowly…in accordance to you and your beliefs.
Granted we’ve been training the same amount of time; but looking at your weight I assume we (I might be wrong here) didnt’ start from the same starting point.
Within my training, I wasn’t always focusing on putting more weight on the bar at all times. Which sorta sucks for me now…but I had other training goals at the time.
7 years; in the grand scheme of things…isn’t that long to figure one’s body out.
But I guess some people just can’t think the same as others. Oh well; what are ya gonna do?
Don’t worry about it man, it’s the internet…I take everything said with a grain of salt.
At my beginning I suffered from training ADD; but in the last 4 years I’ve stuck with things for at least 5months; if not a year or longer.
I took some time away from putting weight on the bar to train for hockey and mma a while back; which had me running ragged with cardio and i lost weight both times.
But I think for anyone starting into weight training; it would be beneficial for them to read the training stuff on here…but know that they are JUST guidlines…and they have to see what works best for THEM.
By when I say “it took 7yrs for me…” I was mainly speaking of the set/rep/rest/intensity that worked for building muscle for MYSELF. I think I might have came off like I was saying “it took me 7yrs to figure out eating a lot and lifting a lot was good” lol…a bit more detailed then that.
but back to the thread topic; 8x8 seems like a bit too much work for someone that is just getting into it…but for the more experienced…it would be interesting to see someone go full board into it and report results in a few months. they’d have to eat like a fucking horse.
fuck off lol im frigging terrified of cutting !
im hoping with this DC business and me doing cardio for the 1st time in YEARS that i might blow torch off some bf while still putting on LBM.
[quote]300andabove wrote:
fuck off lol im frigging terrified of cutting !
im hoping with this DC business and me doing cardio for the 1st time in YEARS that i might blow torch off some bf while still putting on LBM.
fucking cutting lol[/quote]
With the carb-cutoffs and cardio alone you can go pretty far, cutting wise… But try putting on another 40 pounds first
[quote]300andabove wrote:
fuck off lol im frigging terrified of cutting !
im hoping with this DC business and me doing cardio for the 1st time in YEARS that i might blow torch off some bf while still putting on LBM.
fucking cutting lol
dat ist sheisse ![/quote] ← ah, try conquering DC first, the German language is probably a little too much to handle at your stage ;D
Edit: Though I hear that being able to speak German somehow increases your Delt-size
Ok…so as i started this thread and there’s been a few mixed views on the whole 8x8 thing…what do people think of this?
Its a Gironda system that was included on a link on page 1 of this thread:
The Gironda System
by Christian Thibaudeau
The exercises stay the same throughout, exercise lists are on the link
Phase I ? Density Habituation ( 2 weeks)
Number of exercises per muscle group: 3 for large groups, 2 for small groups
Number of sets per exercise: 4
Number of reps per set: 12
Rest between sets: 45 seconds for compound, 30 seconds for isolation work
Workout duration: workout must be completed in 50 minutes or less
Number of exercises per muscle group: 2
Number of sets per exercise: 6
Number of reps per set: 8
Rest between sets: 30 seconds
Workout duration: workout must be completed in 45 minutes or less
Number of exercises per muscle group: 2
Number of sets per exercise: 8
Number of reps per set: 6
Rest between sets: 20 seconds
Workout duration: workout must be completed in 40 minutes or less
Number of exercises per muscle group: 1
Number of sets per exercise: 12
Number of reps per set: 4
Rest between sets: 15 seconds
Workout duration: workout must be completed in 30 minutes or less
Number of exercises per muscle group: 2
Number of sets per exercise: 3
Number of reps per set: 10
Rest between sets: 45 seconds
Workout duration: workout must be completed in 45 minutes or less
Training Split
Monday: Chest, shoulders, triceps
Tuesday: OFF
Wednesday: Back, biceps, forearms
Thursday: OFF
Friday: Quads, hamstrings, calves
Saturday: OFF
Sunday: OFF
[quote]
Thanks for the reply, I have seen this 8x8 posted on other websites and claims to be good for muscle stimulation allowing for muscle size…if i’ve completely gotten this wrong, then yes I would consider a more appropriate rep/set scheme for an increase in size…ideas?[/quote]
This:
Seriously, why do people try to reinvent the wheel.
Vince Gironda said this method was for advanced bodybuilder. Are you an advanced bodybuilder?
I strongly believe that using different rep range is the way to go. Low rep (3-5) for money exercises and higher rep for isolation/assistance work.
