[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
Mick28,
If a powerlifter trains to avoid injuries
Please show me where I stated that a powerlifter should train to avoid injuries.
[/quote]
Close enough here:
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
So, there are no safety standards that would have improved his chances of not getting hurt? Is that what you’re trying to say?
[/quote]
This thread is an awesome indicator of how many PL competitors there are in this group.
Very few.
For the uninitiated, yet surprisingly opinionated, posters who are blathering about safety pins and squat racks- the guy was training for a meet. A meet that REQUIRES you to walk out with the weight.
He was having a shitty day. His legs buckled with no warning, so fast that his spotters could not, barring super powers, stop the bar in time.
He wants to compete again.
As for the guy in the first page whining about the fact that someone posted this online- THE OWNER OF THE GYM POSTED THE VIDEO THE DAY IT HAPPENED. With the fucking injured guy’s consent.
[quote]redsox348984 wrote:
oh man i cant look at stuff like that you shoulda warned me[/quote]
The title of the thread is “800lbs crushes powerlifter” What did you expect?
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
That was feeble, try again.
[/quote]
How about you do us all a favour and very clearly state your question because it’s becoming apparent nobody but you has a clue what you’re talking about.
Thats what happens when you use anabolic steriods. The connective tissue structures surrounding the joints aren’t strong enough to handle the load. Especially when you use stupid “gear” all the time.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
I don’t think he meant help limited to just safety. But also training wise. Such as does he have lack of calf training or flexibility, or flexibilty strength. Or if at that point his achilles tendon might have been overtrained in his workout cycle.
As far as training and nutrition goes there is definitely some way he could’ve trained to prevent that. What he could’ve done we will never know unless he describes what he did to work up to that point. I’ll tell you this much though the majority of achilles ruptures come from tears that come from over training or not letting the tendons heal.
People that come back stronger from injuries learn from them. Others just say Shit Happens, good thinking in trying to find a way to learn from it.
Yeah, and if he did that he might only be squatting 700lbs. You have to question people priorities, lifting big weights. Or attempting to be injury proof. Not saying these can’t both happen together. But all the strong guys I know, the REALY strong ones are focused on getting stronger. Not on working their achilles flexability or other things.
Also, we live in the real world so he might not have time to devote to it. I know alot of people who are lucky to get workouts in 3/4x a week and spend the rest of their time working or with their families. Do you suggest they take 2+ hours a week away from to spend in the gym working on a minor issue? (plus travelling time etc)
I know the retort will be; “yeah but if Seb did that he’d be more healthy and more capable of spending time with his family”.
But think about this, how many successful lifters pick up this injury? And it is really neccessary for each and everyone of them to spend hours trying to prevent a freak occurance that probably won’t happen anywaY?
[/quote]
Actually no, My retort is how much was he lifting the day after the accident? what about 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? The kind of damage he got might take about 2 - 4 years just to recover from physically (if ever).
Then another few months for the mental aspect. He broke a bone in 2 places, plus tore an achilles tendon. So If he would’ve backed off for a 2 months and made sure his body was properly handling 800 lbs that might not have happened. I’m not saying he should become a Yoga master. Some things even get fixed in a few days of lightweight proper training.
You don’t have to stand and do achilles stretches all day to increase flexibility. A 2 minute warm up of lunges instead of riding the bike can be enough. Or a few warmup sets of Overhead squats.
The people YOU know may only concentrate on lifting big weights. But people who compete and win concentrate on improving their weaknesses. As Ed Coan changed from his sumo like deadlifting style for a few years to improve.
[quote]MichaelJohnson wrote:
Thats what happens when you use anabolic steriods. The connective tissue structures surrounding the joints aren’t strong enough to handle the load. Especially when you use stupid “gear” all the time.
[/quote]
Maybe yes, maybe no- I’ve seen clean lifters get hurt and I know vitamin-fortified lifters that have never been hurt. Personally, I think the cause for his knee buckling lies in the fact that he had a lot of weight on his back. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
What do you know of the people I train with?
I train with a 90kg IPF lifter who totaled 830+ in the WPF last year (while having a quadruple hernia), he’s competing in the IPF nationals in Ireland next month and if he goes on to the worlds expect top 3 if he puts it together on the day.
I train with a lifetime drug free 46 year old who’s totalled 800+ at 100 in loose single ply gear, WDFPF world champ. Good enough to win the IPF masters at 100kg.
A 19 year old who pulls 3x bodyweight raw easily, second at the WDFPF world champs this year.
I could do on.
But what do I know… I don’t train with anyone world class.
Using Ed Coan was a TERRBILE example. He changed deadlifting styles because it was holding his total back, not because it was gong to make him less injury prone.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
Maybe yes, maybe no- I’ve seen clean lifters get hurt and I know vitamin-fortified lifters that have never been hurt. Personally, I think the cause for his knee buckling lies in the fact that he had a lot of weight on his back. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
[/quote]
Nah, that couldn’t be it. He spent too much time squatting heavy weights and not trying to strengthen his ligaments and tendons. Clearly. 
[quote]Hanley wrote:
[quote=“Airtruth”]
The people YOU know may only concentrate on lifting big weights. But people who compete and win concentrate on improving their weaknesses. As Ed Coan changed from his sumo like deadlifting style for a few years to improve.
What do you know of the people I train with?
I train with a 90kg IPF lifter who totaled 830+ in the WPF last year (while having a quadruple hernia), he’s competing in the IPF nationals in Ireland next month and if he goes on to the worlds expect top 3 if he puts it together on the day.
I train with a lifetime drug free 46 year old who’s totalled 800+ at 100 in loose single ply gear, WDFPF world champ. Good enough to win the IPF masters at 100kg.
A 19 year old who pulls 3x bodyweight raw easily, second at the WDFPF world champs this year.
I could do on.
But what do I know… I don’t train with anyone world class.
Using Ed Coan was a TERRBILE example. He changed deadlifting styles because it was holding his total back, not because it was gong to make him less injury prone.[/quote]
Get your facts right, Ed Coan switched from sumo because of a thigh injury that continued to get worse. He had pulled 900 before switching and was only getting 830- 870 right after so it wasn’t just hey I want to improve. He actually went through a thought process in deciding how to “Continue” training. which I suggest you go through. As well as your friend Mr. 830 totaler with quadruple hernia. I assure you if he doesn’t let that heal he won’t be pulling that for much longer.
And I feel sorry for your 19 year old if he continues to let you train him with a F’ck it, who cares if you aren’t ready for your next lift" attitude. Who knows he might not get hurt right?
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
I asked one simple question:
“Are there any safety standards that would have improved his chances of not getting hurt?”
[/quote]
That’s what I thought your question was and I thought I gave my opinion. Here it is again:
Somebody mentioned this guy was training for a meet, I’m going to guess that the federation requires a walkout, otherwise he should be training with a monolift. Therefore you can consider this part of his sport specific training.
As for specific safety precautions, you would need to know him and his training program. was this a new weight he never lifted or was he still working up to a 900lbs squat? I don’t know.
Some people mentioned he should be doing more prehab, do they know what he has been doing? Others mentioned steroids, do they know his cycle? How long he’s used? Or if he’s used?
Based on the video we know very little. maybe he could have had an extra spotter behind him (although it wouldn’t have done anything here except maybe injure the spotter), squat inside a power rack? OK, but the way he fell, it looks like the main injury occurred prior to falling.
His ankle gave out. He likely had no idea or reason to believe that it would. If this is true, then I would say there were no reasonable means he could have taken to avoid the injury.
Back to my previous post, if he was in fact training for a competition and did not have reason to believe his ankle would give out, then he should not train to avoid injury. It should be a part of his program sure, but competition preparation (in any sport) requires you to push your limits if you want to succeed.
[quote]shogunassassin wrote:
This thread is an awesome indicator of how many PL competitors there are in this group.
Very few.
For the uninitiated, yet surprisingly opinionated, posters who are blathering about safety pins and squat racks- the guy was training for a meet. A meet that REQUIRES you to walk out with the weight.
[/quote]
Welcome to T-Nation. The new home of 135 pound twinks who are experts in training.
I am not a PLer - it just doesn’t do anything for me.
BUT - the Plers that train hard and the BBers that train hard are not all that different. I respect balls out effort. Period.
It is the twinks like Mick-boy and airtruth that just have to yammer to make sure they get their 15 minutes of fame.
And just to throw my 2 cents in - why all the worry about preventing the accident? Do you honestly think that someone capable of squatting 800 would do so without proper warm up and stretching? It’s called an accident for a reason. That’s a far cry from Mick-boy getting trapped under a 135lb ME bench press because he was distracted by his PT’s rock hard abs.
Let those that can, do. Let those twink boys affraid of injury remain small and jealous.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
He actually went through a thought process in deciding how to “Continue” training. which I suggest you go through. As well as your friend Mr. 830 totaler with quadruple hernia. I assure you if he doesn’t let that heal he won’t be pulling that for much longer.
And I feel sorry for your 19 year old if he continues to let you train him with a F’ck it, who cares if you aren’t ready for your next lift" attitude. Who knows he might not get hurt right?[/quote]
Ok, lets go then if that’s gonna be your attitude.
Fair enough on the Coan point. I’ll read up and see if it’s true.
I never said the 830+ guy was my friend. I train with him, in the same gym. That does not make a friendship. FYI he had an operation about 2 weeks after the WPF world championships in November.
The 19 year old is now 20.
Explain to me where this is coming from “And I feel sorry for your 19 year old if he continues to let you train him with a F’ck it, who cares if you aren’t ready ready for your next lift” attitude. Who knows he might not get hurt right? ".
Who said I train him? I train WITH him. At 20 years old I don’t think I’ve anywhere near enough experience to start training someone of his standard.
Also, where did I say anything about attempting a lift if you’re not ready for it?
Where did I say I don’t take steps to avoid injuries? Just today I switched my squatting style because my hips was bothering me, I’m icing it as I type, does that sound like the actions of someone who has a cavalier attitude towards injuries?
I’ve worked extensively on my hips over the last month in preperation for sumo pulling and a sheiko cycle. I’ve been working on scapular control post workout lately too. Guess I’m still out to get myself tho?
Bottom line is you despite all of this there is the very real probability (note, NOT possability) that some time in the future I will pick up a serious injury. I attempt the lifts I do now only too aware of that fact. I work towards competitions knowing that I might not walk away from this one. When it comes down to it tho, I put it out of my mind when it is time to step on the platform and trust that everything I’ve done this far I’ve done to the best of my ability and prepared as well as I possibly can.
Right now my total’s jsut about good enough to hit top 15 at 198 on the USAPL junior ranking page. I’d expect to move up maybe 2 more places by the year end. By the time I’m done with being a junior (in another 3 years) I’d at least like to have totalled 1,600+ at around 220. Just about good enough for top 3 this year.
What else can a person do but put an honest effort into everything they do? I’d like to see what what Seb Bach coulda done to prevent that injury. THe fact it was a one time freak occurance should be enough to indicate that it was not a long standing problem. If he had knee trouble on walkouts before I can only imagine he would have switched to a monolift or done extensive work to prvent what happened from happening, you don’t play about when you’re squatting that much.
Even if he was doign that, and a pre-existing problem was there, it stil occured. So basically we’re left with a situation where either he knew it was a possablity and took steps to prevent it, or it was a freak occurance no body could have predicted or prevented. So either he knew it could happen and took steps which ultimately failed to prevent or he had no idea it was gonna happen.
Whatever way you slice it, he couldn’t have done anything to prevent it.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
T-Nation is safe from an open minded fair exchange of ideas with you around rainjack. But when it comes to name calling there are few who can keep up. Keep it up, your a credit to…um…something I’m sure.
[/quote]
You? Open minded? Please tell me you are referring to someone else.
I have been around since before you blew your first wad (if indeed that has even occurred, yet) - and there is no shortage of “open minded discussion”.
There is no need for a discussion about this issue. You have been told countless times by people who have actually have actually squatted their body weight (a lofty goal for you - I am sure) that you take a risk every time you step under the bar. You have also been told by those same people that the only way to prevent accidents is not to try. I am sure you could write a book on that subject.
Stay on the sidelines and offer expertise on things you have only read about in books. That fits you.
Hey - I think Bosu balls are on sale at bb.com - maybe you should try and complete your collection before the sale ends.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
A bunch of soy-boy gay shit
[/quote]
Whatever kiddo. You have never offered anything on this site worth reading. ’
No one even knows who the fuck you are.
There is a reason for that. You are not relevant. Not in any discussion.
But keep trying.
I have to wonder if you would be as free with the “old man” insults were you in the gym with me. Something tells me that the only place you run your mouth is behind the safety of your mother’s keyboard.
But that’s okay.
The issue you here is not prevention of an injury. There is nothing you can do. You would know that were you to ever get under the bar with enough weight to crush your legs with one wrong move.
Exactly how many people need to tell you that before you just shut the fuck up?
The problem with this site is people like you. Your mouth is too big, and your legs too skinny, and your chest is…well…There are probably holocaust survivors with more mass upstairs than you can muster.
The point? You have no reason to be worried about crushing your leg because you haven’t the balls to get under a bar with enough weight to even be considered training, much less dangerous.
Which is leads to what has been said time and time again - if you are afraid of pain - don’t get under the bar.
You want me to understand whatever it is you are rambling about - but you have proven time and again, that you can’t grasp to very simple points. I’m pretty sure you are the walking definition of closed minded.
Either that, or you think you have a valid point which no one but your fellow twink-lovers gives a shit about.
So how many bosu balls did you get? I here the pink ones went fast.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Jesse Snadden wrote:
I think the difference people here aren’t getting is that when you are really training, and I mean pushing the body past what it should normally do, injuries will eventually happen no matter the technique or safety precautions taken. Anyone who disagree’s has not trained in that “Shit can happen at any second” zone.
I’ve squatted an easy 775 in a meet and I’ll be attempting over 800 for the next one. Injuries are part of the game. I’ve had my share of bad ones.
When I see a dumbass comment like “it wasn’t wise to walk that weight out”, well on behalf of that lifter, fuck you. You don’t have a fucking clue what the sacrifice and hard as nails training it takes to do that stuff. It’s an extreme thing to do but fate favors the bold and it takes passion to make a life worth something. Passion is what drives us no matter the chance of injury to score that next big PR.
All too easy for the critic to point the faults when they haven’t done it or anything close to it.
Post of the thread. We need more people with that mind-set around here posting regularly.
[/quote]
I agree. I am no where near that kind of weight, but I do know the first time I walked out with 405 it was a big deal! I was scarred and it could have happened to me just as easily. Hell it could happen with 225 given the right circumstances. I am thankful that nothing like that has happened to me. And knock on wood it will not!
Hope he is feeling better and back under the bar soon…