I keep reading about the 5’s progression, but don’t really know what it is or about. Which book do I need to get or is there an article I can be referred to? Who is it meant for?
Beyond 5/3/1 has it.
Seems to be useful for beginners and for restarting lifters after a layoff. Can be used in other ways as part of a planned block of cycles.
Anyways, the book will give you the gist of it.
Im having some thoughts about 5s progression if u ppl wanna bounce thoughts.
In week 3 for example, youre supposed to do 95% x 5, thats kinda much dont u think? I dont even know if i could do that ^^ assuming TM is correct.
If your TM is 90% then five should be quite doable, although I believe he advocates an 85% TM on a 5s Pro.
You should be able to get 5 reps. Especially with a 3 week build up.
If in doubt, lower the TM
If in doubt, you’re probably due for a deload anyway.
Furthermore,
like Jim says in the book, it’s also good for the first main assistance exercise - I use it for things like front squats, good mornings, etc…
I use 85%TM with 5’sPRO, as I do with the standard 531, and have tried it with a number of different programms.
TBH I have found it almost impossible to go “5 forward”, and still get 5reps on the last set/last week, before a “3 back” reset.
I was actually just thinking about posting about this when I seen this thread!
How do others find 5sPRO?
95% of your TM and it is advocating to use low weights. Not sure what your question is?!
If you can’t do it, you used the wrong PR, you are not pushing yourself or you are using the wrong template for your goals…
actually, I’m not asking a specific question.
it’s more a statement about how i find 5sPRO, and inviting input from others who might use it.
however, as you’re “not sure” let me recap.
i program using a 85%TM so last set of third week is 5reps x95% of TM.
I try to use the 5/3 system Jim recommends for resets. however I am finding that I cannot increase my TM 5 times (i.e. equivalent to adding 25lbs/50lbs respectively to upper/lower TMs) and still get 5 reps on the last set of week 3.
HOW DO OTHERS FIND 5S PRO?
[quote]tokon wrote:
actually, I’m not asking a specific question.
it’s more a statement about how i find 5sPRO, and inviting input from others who might use it.
however, as you’re “not sure” let me recap.
i program using a 85%TM so last set of third week is 5reps x95% of TM.
I try to use the 5/3 system Jim recommends for resets. however I am finding that I cannot increase my TM 5 times (i.e. equivalent to adding 25lbs/50lbs respectively to upper/lower TMs) and still get 5 reps on the last set of week 3.
HOW DO OTHERS FIND 5S PRO? [/quote]
It’s great. Makes everyone I train strong as hell. Not sure how you can’t do 5 cycles but since the program is pretty easy to follow and you are following it 100%, youll have to find another way.
[quote]tokon wrote:
actually, I’m not asking a specific question.
it’s more a statement about how i find 5sPRO, and inviting input from others who might use it.
however, as you’re “not sure” let me recap.
i program using a 85%TM so last set of third week is 5reps x95% of TM.
I try to use the 5/3 system Jim recommends for resets. however I am finding that I cannot increase my TM 5 times (i.e. equivalent to adding 25lbs/50lbs respectively to upper/lower TMs) and still get 5 reps on the last set of week 3.
HOW DO OTHERS FIND 5S PRO? [/quote]
how often are you deloading?
I asked a similar question to this a while back.
I started with a weight I ended up doing for 8-11 reps on week 3 (not sure if you’re supposed to do +sets but they’ve worked so far).
Fast forward a few cycles and I do either the same or more reps for higher TMs.
You need to hit that 5th week with some gas in the tank. If you’re really that tentative, treat it as if you just finished a 5 forward cycle. Go back 3, start from there.
Or pick a weight your are confident in hitting for 5 reps in 5 cycles time and work backwards.
Time will sort out the weight for you.
5’s Pro is just doing sets of 5 using the usual 5/3/1 percentages, I thought. So no + or PR sets, just gradually increasing the poundages over time.
E.g. 70% / 80% / 90% Week 1, 65/75/85 Week 2, 75/85/95 Week 3 (all 5’s), then deload, increase TM and repeat. Right??
Whenever I have to reset or start from scratch (injury - etc) I work up to a five rep max. Then I take that number minus the number of reps - as my max. Ex: Way back in 2008 when I first started 5-3-1, I benched 305 x 5 reps - and thus used 305 for my max. I then took 85% of that as my training max and began.
After trying many versions/ techniques, etc - I find that NOTHING works better with this program FOR ME than simply setting a record when I go in without compromise - even if it is only by percentage points.
The trick to doing this is calculating and writing down what you need before you go in and simply doing what you gotta to get it. Thus I take getting to the gym ready to compete (with myself) seriously.
So if I need 335 x 11 to beat my last workout record by .0001% - I am not stopping until I get it - but it involves planning and peaking weekly.
Of course this runs its course - but then you realize via experience that you got stronger using sub-max weight and thus the training max becomes just a tool to regulate. So then the 5-3 element makes perfect sense.
I know that Jim and many others who know far more than me say you don’t have to set a record every workout - and especially when doing BBB I agree - but compromising the PR aspect of this program has never served me well.
So In short, start light enough that you can get started setting some records, get some momentum…
Thanks. I’m not sure what the problem is either! It’s primarily the Press I am stalling out on. After 4 cycles I only hit 4 reps last set of third week. I put it down to just an “off” day but did not increase TM for Press next cycle. However next time through, same weight same reps!
Pre-“Beyond” I used to deload after the 531 week then I moved to the new method of deloading after every two completed cycles.
[quote]JFG wrote:
95% of your TM and it is advocating to use low weights. Not sure what your question is?!
If you can’t do it, you used the wrong PR, you are not pushing yourself or you are using the wrong template for your goals…[/quote]
Youre not making sense when you say “95% of your TM and use low weights”, the weight isnt low and its not high i guess, its 95% of your TM, its constant.
95% of TM for 5 reps is quite high if you use 90% of your 1RM as TM, im not questioning high and hard but you can barely do it and if you can its reaaaaly close to failure, which from what ive read isnt recommended on any of the 531 principals
[quote]box4m wrote:
[quote]JFG wrote:
95% of your TM and it is advocating to use low weights. Not sure what your question is?!
If you can’t do it, you used the wrong PR, you are not pushing yourself or you are using the wrong template for your goals…[/quote]
Youre not making sense when you say “95% of your TM and use low weights”, the weight isnt low and its not high i guess, its 95% of your TM, its constant.
95% of TM for 5 reps is quite high if you use 90% of your 1RM as TM, im not questioning high and hard but you can barely do it and if you can its reaaaaly close to failure, which from what ive read isnt recommended on any of the 531 principals[/quote]
I think by “low weights” he meant that you should have set your TM lower than normal. Normally, we go with 90% of our 1RM. But when doing a 5s PRO, you could have it at 85% of our 1RM. Which means that week 3 of the cycle will have your last set doing 95% of 85% of your 1RM. A number you should be able to hit, sort of toeing the line between where you might have missed at 95% of 90% of your 1RM.
The TM is really just a method for you to adjust in your greater scheme of training.
I love it. 5’s PRO and 3-5 sets of 5 FSL are pure gold for me.
[quote]tokon wrote:
actually, I’m not asking a specific question.
it’s more a statement about how i find 5sPRO, and inviting input from others who might use it.
however, as you’re “not sure” let me recap.
i program using a 85%TM so last set of third week is 5reps x95% of TM.
I try to use the 5/3 system Jim recommends for resets. however I am finding that I cannot increase my TM 5 times (i.e. equivalent to adding 25lbs/50lbs respectively to upper/lower TMs) and still get 5 reps on the last set of week 3.
HOW DO OTHERS FIND 5S PRO? [/quote]
Solutions:
Use a lower TM from the start (80% perhaps)
Use a 4/2 reset instead of 5/3
Train smarter
Train better
Eat more
Eat better
Sleep more
Sleep better
Any combination of the above as it fits
I worked a heavy labour job in a freezer and still managed to set PR’s at lighter bodyweights using the Lifer system after 6 cycles of no reset. It works if you are honest with yourself and your application/dedication.