5/3/1 with Actual Maxes?

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]twiceborn wrote:
5/3/1 with actual maxes is basically the Westside max effort method. Nothing wrong wit doing it but it won’t work with the same exercises week in and week out, you need to change em’ up.

You gotta keep one thing in mind when it comes to Wendler, he basically built the majority of his strength using the Westside method, then decided to disown it. He jumped on the strength coach bandwagon by getting cute and ripping off the “Bigger Faster Stronger” program calling it 5/3/1.

From the time he started using 5/3/1 on his EFS log he only really gained 25-40lbs on each lift, bringing them back up to the levels they were already at previously in his lifting career. After that, he plateaued hard and never made any more progress past that point.

5/3/1 is basically just Jim’s way to meet his motorcycle and mortgage payments. The program sucks.

[/quote]

It sucks so bad that its only added 400 pounds to my total in the 2.5 years I’ve been running it, half of that time while battling testicular cancer. I should have gotten 1000 increase…what a shitty program.

22

[quote]twiceborn wrote:
5/3/1 with actual maxes is basically the Westside max effort method. Nothing wrong wit doing it but it won’t work with the same exercises week in and week out, you need to change em’ up.

You gotta keep one thing in mind when it comes to Wendler, he basically built the majority of his strength using the Westside method, then decided to disown it. He jumped on the strength coach bandwagon by getting cute and ripping off the “Bigger Faster Stronger” program calling it 5/3/1.

From the time he started using 5/3/1 on his EFS log he only really gained 25-40lbs on each lift, bringing them back up to the levels they were already at previously in his lifting career. After that, he plateaued hard and never made any more progress past that point.

5/3/1 is basically just Jim’s way to meet his motorcycle and mortgage payments. The program sucks.

[/quote]

gotta remember jim isnt competing anymore, he wanted to lose weight and be able to do different things. he was around 275 and he purposely dropped down to 225 ish

23

Juggernaut method and Defranco’s Built like a Badass are varitions on 531 where you use higher maxes or can readjust up

24

[quote]RockmanX88 wrote:
^in reply

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

He went from a 300ish squat/dl and 220bench to this in a year:
515 squat, 565 deadlift, 300 bench[/quote]

Good for him. Have you gotten those results? Did Wendler? Hell no.

Ok, I know this isn’t what guys on this board like to hear, but a 1400ish total isn’t that great. Those are newbie gains. If that’s what you’re happy with, alright, but when you get stomped at a local competition it’s not because other people are freaks it’s because you’re too intellectually lazy to figure shit out for yourselves.

Go back and take a look at the link. The kid used Smolov when 5/3/1 stopped working. That’s exactly my point. 5/3/1 will “work” but you’ll pleteau big time. What do you do then? Move on to teh Juggernautz?

Christ, do ANY of you know how to program without adopting “lifter x’s” routine? Do any of you know how to program without buying an EliteFTS product?

Let’s stop looking for outliers to “prove” something works and look around you. There are guys ON THIS THREAD defending 5/3/1 that haven’t made shit for progress on it. Also, no one can argue with the fact that Wendler himself never gained much of shit from his own program. That’s a fact.

It’s a place to start. It focuses on main lifts and is accessible.

Truth be told, I don’t think many people have the mental capacity to figure out Reactive Training, but that’s just about the best system out there right now. Hell, people have trouble figuring out Westside, so there you go.

You gained 400lbs on what exactly? I see that you’re like 280, have you broken 1400 yet? I’d wager that you are lifting about the same as I was as an 18 year old 220. I also gained more than you in a shorter time. Again, it was all newbie gains, not my program.

Sorry to hear about your nuts. How did you “battle” it anyway, longswords and maces? Sounds very heroic. Here, let me just concede victory to you and Lance Armstrong in any debate from here on out. I just can’t compete with a man willing to use the sympathy card.

Oh wait. You DO realize you’re talking to a guy who LIFTS MORE THAN YOU OR WENDLER, right? If you want to measure dick size on an internet forum, try not to be a snarky asshat to the guy who clawed his way to a 765 deadlift.

That’s the best part about this. You guys have never met Wendler yet you’ll defend his stolen ideas with all the fervor you can muster. You have no idea if the examples of success you’re holding up to were using a gram of tren a week. You have no idea if I’m an elite lifter out here giving my honest opinion based on 20 years of experience, you just assume that I’m wrong because it goes against your cultish devotion to a program.

You’re all too fucking LAZY to think for yourselves. Now I know why Jamie Lewis hates you twats.

25

this thread was supposed to help out a beginner looking for help, what the fuck is going on here? let us know how it goes bigspence

26

/boss level rant.

27

Haha, yeah this threat has kinda degraded.

Right now I bench like 350, and rep 225 out for 20. I just want to get my bench back to where it was. Well…actually I want to get it to 405+ I was at either 375 or 385 my sophomore year, then I strained my chest. It’s no excuse, but I’ve been playing football the past few years and have been banged up and getting minor injuries that have effected my progress. I’m looking for the best method to get back to where I was quickly, then make slow progress from there. I usually do better with “heavier” weights/lower reps so that’s why I wanted to see if I can use actual maxes.

I’m not as worried about my squat. I’m not where I’m at for squat but my squat progress usually goes up consistently. I’ve had three foot surgeries in the past 2-3 years(2 in the past year…can’t remember when the first one was), and in the month back that I’ve been squatting again, I’ve repped out 315 for 20 and 365 for 14. I eventually want to get to a 600 pound squat/estimated squat. But I know if I can come injury free, that won’t be a problem.

I know this is “mixing and matching” but I think I’m going to do the 3/5/1 for bench with some singles, and the regular 5/3/1 with everything else.

28

[quote]twiceborn wrote:

Now I know why Jamie Lewis hates you twats.

[/quote]
Jamie hates T-Nation?

29

I’m not trying to make excuses…I know things have happened and all I can do is move on from here and try to get better.

30

[quote]bigspence75 wrote:
I’m not trying to make excuses…I know things have happened and all I can do is move on from here and try to get better.

[/quote]
All part of the exodus to strength bro

31

[quote]twiceborn wrote:

[quote]RockmanX88 wrote:
^in reply

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

He went from a 300ish squat/dl and 220bench to this in a year:
515 squat, 565 deadlift, 300 bench[/quote]

Good for him. Have you gotten those results? Did Wendler? Hell no.

Ok, I know this isn’t what guys on this board like to hear, but a 1400ish total isn’t that great. Those are newbie gains. If that’s what you’re happy with, alright, but when you get stomped at a local competition it’s not because other people are freaks it’s because you’re too intellectually lazy to figure shit out for yourselves.

Go back and take a look at the link. The kid used Smolov when 5/3/1 stopped working. That’s exactly my point. 5/3/1 will “work” but you’ll pleteau big time. What do you do then? Move on to teh Juggernautz?

Christ, do ANY of you know how to program without adopting “lifter x’s” routine? Do any of you know how to program without buying an EliteFTS product?

Let’s stop looking for outliers to “prove” something works and look around you. There are guys ON THIS THREAD defending 5/3/1 that haven’t made shit for progress on it. Also, no one can argue with the fact that Wendler himself never gained much of shit from his own program. That’s a fact.

It’s a place to start. It focuses on main lifts and is accessible.

Truth be told, I don’t think many people have the mental capacity to figure out Reactive Training, but that’s just about the best system out there right now. Hell, people have trouble figuring out Westside, so there you go.

You gained 400lbs on what exactly? I see that you’re like 280, have you broken 1400 yet? I’d wager that you are lifting about the same as I was as an 18 year old 220. I also gained more than you in a shorter time. Again, it was all newbie gains, not my program.

Sorry to hear about your nuts. How did you “battle” it anyway, longswords and maces? Sounds very heroic. Here, let me just concede victory to you and Lance Armstrong in any debate from here on out. I just can’t compete with a man willing to use the sympathy card.

Oh wait. You DO realize you’re talking to a guy who LIFTS MORE THAN YOU OR WENDLER, right? If you want to measure dick size on an internet forum, try not to be a snarky asshat to the guy who clawed his way to a 765 deadlift.

That’s the best part about this. You guys have never met Wendler yet you’ll defend his stolen ideas with all the fervor you can muster. You have no idea if the examples of success you’re holding up to were using a gram of tren a week. You have no idea if I’m an elite lifter out here giving my honest opinion based on 20 years of experience, you just assume that I’m wrong because it goes against your cultish devotion to a program.

You’re all too fucking LAZY to think for yourselves. Now I know why Jamie Lewis hates you twats.
[/quote]

Edit: Fuck it this dickless scum bag isn’t even worth the time I took to write and then edit this post. Check out his “FUCK THE TROOPS” message in a thread from last year started by DBCooper asking if a T-Nation member was killed in Afghanistan. That should give you a clue to the mental midget troll we are dealing with.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/did_we_lose_a_member_in_afghanistan

32

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]twiceborn wrote:

[quote]RockmanX88 wrote:
^in reply

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

He went from a 300ish squat/dl and 220bench to this in a year:
515 squat, 565 deadlift, 300 bench[/quote]

Good for him. Have you gotten those results? Did Wendler? Hell no.

Ok, I know this isn’t what guys on this board like to hear, but a 1400ish total isn’t that great. Those are newbie gains. If that’s what you’re happy with, alright, but when you get stomped at a local competition it’s not because other people are freaks it’s because you’re too intellectually lazy to figure shit out for yourselves.

Go back and take a look at the link. The kid used Smolov when 5/3/1 stopped working. That’s exactly my point. 5/3/1 will “work” but you’ll pleteau big time. What do you do then? Move on to teh Juggernautz?

Christ, do ANY of you know how to program without adopting “lifter x’s” routine? Do any of you know how to program without buying an EliteFTS product?

Let’s stop looking for outliers to “prove” something works and look around you. There are guys ON THIS THREAD defending 5/3/1 that haven’t made shit for progress on it. Also, no one can argue with the fact that Wendler himself never gained much of shit from his own program. That’s a fact.

It’s a place to start. It focuses on main lifts and is accessible.

Truth be told, I don’t think many people have the mental capacity to figure out Reactive Training, but that’s just about the best system out there right now. Hell, people have trouble figuring out Westside, so there you go.

You gained 400lbs on what exactly? I see that you’re like 280, have you broken 1400 yet? I’d wager that you are lifting about the same as I was as an 18 year old 220. I also gained more than you in a shorter time. Again, it was all newbie gains, not my program.

Sorry to hear about your nuts. How did you “battle” it anyway, longswords and maces? Sounds very heroic. Here, let me just concede victory to you and Lance Armstrong in any debate from here on out. I just can’t compete with a man willing to use the sympathy card.

Oh wait. You DO realize you’re talking to a guy who LIFTS MORE THAN YOU OR WENDLER, right? If you want to measure dick size on an internet forum, try not to be a snarky asshat to the guy who clawed his way to a 765 deadlift.

That’s the best part about this. You guys have never met Wendler yet you’ll defend his stolen ideas with all the fervor you can muster. You have no idea if the examples of success you’re holding up to were using a gram of tren a week. You have no idea if I’m an elite lifter out here giving my honest opinion based on 20 years of experience, you just assume that I’m wrong because it goes against your cultish devotion to a program.

You’re all too fucking LAZY to think for yourselves. Now I know why Jamie Lewis hates you twats.
[/quote]

Edit: Fuck it this dickless scum bag isn’t even worth the time I took to write and then edit this post. Check out his “FUCK THE TROOPS” message in a thread from last year started by DBCooper asking if a T-Nation member was killed in Afghanistan. That should give you a clue to the mental midget troll we are dealing with.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/did_we_lose_a_member_in_afghanistan

[/quote]

hes just a troll. just trying to get a rise out of everyone behind the curtain of the internet. fuck em

33

% based periodized programs were around for many years before Wendler published 5/3/1. Many lifters, myself included, have made major gains on periodized programs. Plenty of good powerlifters continue to do so to this day. Although I would not recommend 5/3/1 for a meet preparation cycle, it is a sold program when ran correctly during other periods.

34

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]twiceborn wrote:

[quote]RockmanX88 wrote:
^in reply

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

He went from a 300ish squat/dl and 220bench to this in a year:
515 squat, 565 deadlift, 300 bench[/quote]

Good for him. Have you gotten those results? Did Wendler? Hell no.

Ok, I know this isn’t what guys on this board like to hear, but a 1400ish total isn’t that great. Those are newbie gains. If that’s what you’re happy with, alright, but when you get stomped at a local competition it’s not because other people are freaks it’s because you’re too intellectually lazy to figure shit out for yourselves.

Go back and take a look at the link. The kid used Smolov when 5/3/1 stopped working. That’s exactly my point. 5/3/1 will “work” but you’ll pleteau big time. What do you do then? Move on to teh Juggernautz?

Christ, do ANY of you know how to program without adopting “lifter x’s” routine? Do any of you know how to program without buying an EliteFTS product?

Let’s stop looking for outliers to “prove” something works and look around you. There are guys ON THIS THREAD defending 5/3/1 that haven’t made shit for progress on it. Also, no one can argue with the fact that Wendler himself never gained much of shit from his own program. That’s a fact.

It’s a place to start. It focuses on main lifts and is accessible.

Truth be told, I don’t think many people have the mental capacity to figure out Reactive Training, but that’s just about the best system out there right now. Hell, people have trouble figuring out Westside, so there you go.

You gained 400lbs on what exactly? I see that you’re like 280, have you broken 1400 yet? I’d wager that you are lifting about the same as I was as an 18 year old 220. I also gained more than you in a shorter time. Again, it was all newbie gains, not my program.

Sorry to hear about your nuts. How did you “battle” it anyway, longswords and maces? Sounds very heroic. Here, let me just concede victory to you and Lance Armstrong in any debate from here on out. I just can’t compete with a man willing to use the sympathy card.

Oh wait. You DO realize you’re talking to a guy who LIFTS MORE THAN YOU OR WENDLER, right? If you want to measure dick size on an internet forum, try not to be a snarky asshat to the guy who clawed his way to a 765 deadlift.

That’s the best part about this. You guys have never met Wendler yet you’ll defend his stolen ideas with all the fervor you can muster. You have no idea if the examples of success you’re holding up to were using a gram of tren a week. You have no idea if I’m an elite lifter out here giving my honest opinion based on 20 years of experience, you just assume that I’m wrong because it goes against your cultish devotion to a program.

You’re all too fucking LAZY to think for yourselves. Now I know why Jamie Lewis hates you twats.
[/quote]

Edit: Fuck it this dickless scum bag isn’t even worth the time I took to write and then edit this post. Check out his “FUCK THE TROOPS” message in a thread from last year started by DBCooper asking if a T-Nation member was killed in Afghanistan. That should give you a clue to the mental midget troll we are dealing with.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/did_we_lose_a_member_in_afghanistan

[/quote]

Fawk. Thought it was weird someone would get so butthurt over a training template

35

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]twiceborn wrote:

[quote]RockmanX88 wrote:
^in reply

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

He went from a 300ish squat/dl and 220bench to this in a year:
515 squat, 565 deadlift, 300 bench[/quote]

Good for him. Have you gotten those results? Did Wendler? Hell no.

Ok, I know this isn’t what guys on this board like to hear, but a 1400ish total isn’t that great. Those are newbie gains. If that’s what you’re happy with, alright, but when you get stomped at a local competition it’s not because other people are freaks it’s because you’re too intellectually lazy to figure shit out for yourselves.

Go back and take a look at the link. The kid used Smolov when 5/3/1 stopped working. That’s exactly my point. 5/3/1 will “work” but you’ll pleteau big time. What do you do then? Move on to teh Juggernautz?

Christ, do ANY of you know how to program without adopting “lifter x’s” routine? Do any of you know how to program without buying an EliteFTS product?

Let’s stop looking for outliers to “prove” something works and look around you. There are guys ON THIS THREAD defending 5/3/1 that haven’t made shit for progress on it. Also, no one can argue with the fact that Wendler himself never gained much of shit from his own program. That’s a fact.

It’s a place to start. It focuses on main lifts and is accessible.

Truth be told, I don’t think many people have the mental capacity to figure out Reactive Training, but that’s just about the best system out there right now. Hell, people have trouble figuring out Westside, so there you go.

You gained 400lbs on what exactly? I see that you’re like 280, have you broken 1400 yet? I’d wager that you are lifting about the same as I was as an 18 year old 220. I also gained more than you in a shorter time. Again, it was all newbie gains, not my program.

Sorry to hear about your nuts. How did you “battle” it anyway, longswords and maces? Sounds very heroic. Here, let me just concede victory to you and Lance Armstrong in any debate from here on out. I just can’t compete with a man willing to use the sympathy card.

Oh wait. You DO realize you’re talking to a guy who LIFTS MORE THAN YOU OR WENDLER, right? If you want to measure dick size on an internet forum, try not to be a snarky asshat to the guy who clawed his way to a 765 deadlift.

That’s the best part about this. You guys have never met Wendler yet you’ll defend his stolen ideas with all the fervor you can muster. You have no idea if the examples of success you’re holding up to were using a gram of tren a week. You have no idea if I’m an elite lifter out here giving my honest opinion based on 20 years of experience, you just assume that I’m wrong because it goes against your cultish devotion to a program.

You’re all too fucking LAZY to think for yourselves. Now I know why Jamie Lewis hates you twats.
[/quote]

Edit: Fuck it this dickless scum bag isn’t even worth the time I took to write and then edit this post. Check out his “FUCK THE TROOPS” message in a thread from last year started by DBCooper asking if a T-Nation member was killed in Afghanistan. That should give you a clue to the mental midget troll we are dealing with.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/did_we_lose_a_member_in_afghanistan

[/quote]

Fawk. Thought it was weird someone would get so butthurt over a training template[/quote]

Subscribing now. I think trolls are funny. I hope he comes back to post more.

By the way, VT. Congrats on your progress. Not many people would be able to lift and get cancer treatment simultaneously (regardless of what form), let alone progress.

-Zep

36

[quote]twiceborn wrote:

[quote]RockmanX88 wrote:
^in reply

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

He went from a 300ish squat/dl and 220bench to this in a year:
515 squat, 565 deadlift, 300 bench[/quote]

Good for him. Have you gotten those results? Did Wendler? Hell no.

Ok, I know this isn’t what guys on this board like to hear, but a 1400ish total isn’t that great. Those are newbie gains. If that’s what you’re happy with, alright, but when you get stomped at a local competition it’s not because other people are freaks it’s because you’re too intellectually lazy to figure shit out for yourselves.

Go back and take a look at the link. The kid used Smolov when 5/3/1 stopped working. That’s exactly my point. 5/3/1 will “work” but you’ll pleteau big time. What do you do then? Move on to teh Juggernautz?

Christ, do ANY of you know how to program without adopting “lifter x’s” routine? Do any of you know how to program without buying an EliteFTS product?

Let’s stop looking for outliers to “prove” something works and look around you. There are guys ON THIS THREAD defending 5/3/1 that haven’t made shit for progress on it. Also, no one can argue with the fact that Wendler himself never gained much of shit from his own program. That’s a fact.

It’s a place to start. It focuses on main lifts and is accessible.

Truth be told, I don’t think many people have the mental capacity to figure out Reactive Training, but that’s just about the best system out there right now. Hell, people have trouble figuring out Westside, so there you go.

You gained 400lbs on what exactly? I see that you’re like 280, have you broken 1400 yet? I’d wager that you are lifting about the same as I was as an 18 year old 220. I also gained more than you in a shorter time. Again, it was all newbie gains, not my program.

Sorry to hear about your nuts. How did you “battle” it anyway, longswords and maces? Sounds very heroic. Here, let me just concede victory to you and Lance Armstrong in any debate from here on out. I just can’t compete with a man willing to use the sympathy card.

Oh wait. You DO realize you’re talking to a guy who LIFTS MORE THAN YOU OR WENDLER, right? If you want to measure dick size on an internet forum, try not to be a snarky asshat to the guy who clawed his way to a 765 deadlift.

That’s the best part about this. You guys have never met Wendler yet you’ll defend his stolen ideas with all the fervor you can muster. You have no idea if the examples of success you’re holding up to were using a gram of tren a week. You have no idea if I’m an elite lifter out here giving my honest opinion based on 20 years of experience, you just assume that I’m wrong because it goes against your cultish devotion to a program.

You’re all too fucking LAZY to think for yourselves. Now I know why Jamie Lewis hates you twats.
[/quote]

Take notes class. This is how you become a worthless cunt.