My time for the gym is narrowing down, so I need to get back to 3 days per week, I like fullbody routines. I’m looking for volume gains while still earning, or at least mantaining my strenght levels.
Reading about the GVT 3 days per week routine on Beyond from Jim Wendler an idea crossed my mind.
After reading “Full-Body Workouts of the Legends” and “Gironda’s 8x8 Training” articles (both on T-Nation, I can’t put links, sorry) I thought…well, if the brutality of GVT is “accepted” on 5/3/1, why not Gironda’s 8x8? So, following the guidelines under GVT I narrowed this one down:
A:
Press 5/3/1
Chest 8x8
Back 8x8
Triceps 8x8
Biceps 8x8
Shoulder 8x8
Legs 8x8
(Abs ???)
B:
Deadlift 5/3/1
Chest 8x8
Back 8x8
Triceps 8x8
Biceps 8x8
Shoulder 8x8
Legs 8x8
(Abs ???)
C:
Bench Press 5/3/1
Chest 8x8
Back 8x8
Triceps 8x8
Biceps 8x8
Shoulder 8x8
Legs 8x8
(Abs ???)
D:
Squat 5/3/1
Chest 8x8
Back 8x8
Triceps 8x8
Biceps 8x8
Shoulder 8x8
Legs 8x8
(Abs ???)
So, Yay? Nay? You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about leviathan?
This looks like a horrible idea. 8x8 for up to SIX body parts a DAY… after doing 5/3/1 for a main lift? Why?! In the GVT template from Beyond, you do GVT for one or two assistance lifts after your 5/3/1 sets and you’re DONE. And, really, 10x10 or even 8x8 is wholly unnecessary for muscle gains. I say apply high volume to one assistance move on squat/deadlift, to two movements (press/pull) on Bench/Press days and cut out the full body stuff until you’re more advanced.
Oh, I must add that right now I’m doing the 6 week version of BBB challenge and loving it. This gironda thing was just and idea that crossed my mind, if I have to finally get back to 3 days per week. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong, no sweat.
Bad idea. You would probably be spending like 1.5-2 hrs per workout. I think you would reap the same benefits of a full body routine if you were doing half that volume.
You’re a glutton for punishment if you follow through. That is an absolutely ridiculous amount of volume. I would probably err more towards doing 5/3/1 Boring But Big and maybe adding in a few sets of arm, upper back, and rotator cuff (rotator would be my #1 priority) on upper body days if you want a little extra hypertrophy.
On lower body days, the BBB should be more than enough. If not, bump up the 5x10 to 55% or 60%, potentially 5x8 at 70%. This should give you all the growth stimulus you desire.
Beyond 5/3/1 has plenty of ideas for solid yet manageable training volume. Stick to the basics and make edits like this when you become more experienced.
Training 3 days per week does not mean that you have cram in 100s of reps in to each session to gain size. I gained the most size in the shortest amount of time doing the 5/3/1 DC challenge for 12 weeks, which is 2-days per week, for example.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that volume doesn’t mean much unless there is some appreciable weight on the bar. Weight isn’t everything, especially when looking at assistance work, but I can’t see 8x8 doing much more than endurance training, especially after giving it your all in the main 5/3/1 sets, which is the CRUX OF THE PROGRAM! Not to mention the fact that 8x8 is supposed to be done with very short rest periods, like 30 seconds.
Direct quote from 8x8 article on T-Nation:
“8x8 is intended to deliver an awesome pump and improve conditioning”. Is conditioning what you are looking for, or do you want to add size through volume? If size is your answer, do the BBB challenge.
Just do 5/3/1 as Jim wrote and don’t try and “Frankenstein” his work with somebody’s else’s work which both have two different purposes. If you need variety, then buy Beyond 5/3/1 and join his website for more information and you’ll have all of the relevant 5/3/1 work you could possibly ask for.
I’m going to resurrect this topic. This is not meant to knock the 5/3/1 system or discredit people who commented. This is me sharing my anecdotal training after doing 5/3/1 and 8x8 separately, in case somebody else decides to look this up too. I also saw a thread somewhere where a guy is doing 5/3/1 with GVT recently, so it would be cool to get his perspective.
I last posted in 2014 about doing 8x8 after 5/3/1. To be honest, around this time I was seeing really fast progress on the bar by just doing 5/3/1 with BBB or minimal accessory - maybe some pullup or leg raise at the very least.
I ended up doing 8x8 for a few months at a time (without 5/3/1), a few times since 2014, and my progress got better each time with light weight and strict rest periods. It was also humbling to see how low from my 1RM I had to go to get 8x8 done on squats.
Based on my experience, I dont see anything wrong with picking and exercise or two and doing it 8x8 after any rep scheme, especially if its lower reps. 8x8 simply doesn’t have you moving enough weight to put on strength, but 5/3/1 does. 5/3/1 has long rest periods in order to allow an athlete to push optimal weight, so its not quite conducive to a pump.
I did light 8x8 lat pulldowns after my coaches powerlifting programming 4x a week with different MAG grip widths (widest to narrowest), and I feel like I went up a shirt size.
And what you said here is a lot better than the original workout posted 4 years ago. The back likes high volume so rows and pull downs with an 8 x 8 scheme isn’t a bad idea.
I think the shoulders would get cranky very quickly with 8 x 8 on pressing movements (machines might allow it).
I could be wrong but I seem to recall Gironda’s 8x8 was limited to one body part at a time and was never intended to be used on every muscle group in the same cycle. Arithmetically I see no problem incorporating it into standard 531 protocol as an assistance movement or part of BBB but I would have problems with the routine listed here. Still, it’d be a learning curve if nothing else. As the old saying goes, everything should be tried at least once, except for incest and country dancing.
I wasn’t OP, but did post mid way through with a concept of mine (also from 2014)
After looking more into Gironda’s training, I’ve read that Vince didn’t like a lot of the traditional barbell moves that powerlifters do. If I recall correctly, he theorized that deadlifts thicken the waist (dunno how much truth there is to this), squats overdevelop the glutes and sissy squats work better for the quads (but I have no interest in working my sissy squat - I’d rather work my low bar squat), or a front squat), and he preferred the guillotine press over the bench press.
Because my primary goal is to get stronger on max attempts, I figured I’d do my powerlifting as is and do accessory, especially isolation with 8x8.
Def agree with @RayWilliams because trying it for myself was what I needed to do. I feel like my biceps are lagging, so I might add 8x8 every session for curls once again.