is it just me or does anyone else find the 5s week tough? especially squat day,im on my fourth cycle,im a drug free raw powerlifter,no knee wraps just belt,last week on my 4th cycle week 1 squat i done 1. 150kg x 5 easy 175kg x 5 easy and 197.5kg x 5 tough,i think its because of the 3 sets,im use to doing just one top set maybe 5s or 3s??
i feel alot stronger thou,this week was week 2 cycle 4 1. 162.5kg x 3 beltless easy 2.185kg x 3 belt easy 3. 207.5kg x 3 ok,im still recovering from lower back strain so i take that into consideration,maybe some of us lifters are just better suited to 3 reps on heavy squats and deads
Ive always found the 5’s weeks harder than the other weeks. Especially when peaking for a meet and conditioning gets put on the backburner–anything over 3 reps is cardio
In terms of raw strength what is the benefit of the 5 week? Has anybody experimented with eliminating the 5 and maybe working a 3, 2, 1 setup instead of 5 ,3,1??
[quote]celticstrenght wrote:
is it just me or does anyone else find the 5s week tough? especially squat day,im on my fourth cycle,im a drug free raw powerlifter,no knee wraps just belt,last week on my 4th cycle week 1 squat i done 1. 150kg x 5 easy 175kg x 5 easy and 197.5kg x 5 tough,i think its because of the 3 sets,im use to doing just one top set maybe 5s or 3s??
i feel alot stronger thou,this week was week 2 cycle 4 1. 162.5kg x 3 beltless easy 2.185kg x 3 belt easy 3. 207.5kg x 3 ok,im still recovering from lower back strain so i take that into consideration,maybe some of us lifters are just better suited to 3 reps on heavy squats and deads :D[/quote]
I feel the same. 3x5 is the hardest. The weeks after aren’t bad.
Especially when you get up near 10 reps on the 5+ week. I’ve never gotten over 10 squats purely from a conditioning standpoint, I’ve had strength for 11 reps but my face is the color of a tomato by then.
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
In terms of raw strength what is the benefit of the 5 week? Has anybody experimented with eliminating the 5 and maybe working a 3, 2, 1 setup instead of 5 ,3,1??[/quote]
Only have ran 5/3/1 for like 2 cycles with my deadlift, but I didn’t think the 5’s week was too bad.
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
In terms of raw strength what is the benefit of the 5 week? Has anybody experimented with eliminating the 5 and maybe working a 3, 2, 1 setup instead of 5 ,3,1??[/quote]
It’s clear a couple people in this thread don’t know the program (including potentially OP).
The top set is an AS MANY AS POSSIBLE set, with a “minimum required” of 5, 3, or 1 rep(s). Once you can’t hit the minimum reps, you reset your max.
In other words, you’ll often hit 8-10 reps on your top set in 5’s week, 5-8 on 3’s week and 2-5 on 1’s week.
Don’t start with that “How can you possibly get stronger over 5 reps” nonsense, shitloads of people have gotten stronger on his program. There’s something about doing ONE ALL OUT SET that makes the rep range a little less relevant… there’s a big difference between doing 3 sets of 8, and taking a weight you think you can get 5 with, going balls out for one set, and getting 8.
For me personally 5/3/1 didn’t do much for anything but my squat, but tons of people have gotten stronger on it. The fact that it wasn’t for me doesn’t mean it sucks.
I squatted 230x10 in April coming off an injury, recently I hit 280x9 and hit a 1RM 15lbs above my pre-injury PR (355), so I’d say high rep squats can make you stronger.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
The top set is an AS MANY AS POSSIBLE set, with a “minimum required” of 5, 3, or 1 rep(s). Once you can’t hit the minimum reps, you reset your max.
In other words, you’ll often hit 8-10 reps on your top set in 5’s week, 5-8 on 3’s week and 2-5 on 1’s week.[/quote]
Yep. I’d like to add that in the the 10 months I ran 5.3.1 if my 1rms are what they say they are “5-3-1” becomes 9-7-5 on the “all out sets”. Even on the “1+” week the 95% of 90% is ‘only’ 85% of your max and one should be able to do 85% about 5 times. Knowing this I had a hard time accepting the fact that I was repping lighter weights.
5/5/5 is a real gut check. I’ve found you really need to focus on that last set. To be honest, it’s probably the week where you will set up you other weeks in terms of gains.
Yep. And to anyone who thinks that a lighter week of rep work isn’t going to produce great strength results… well, I feel like we’ve been over this before. Hundreds of times. Sometimes, going lighter is exactly what your body needs. And you’re setting yourself up to not only be stronger, but to be stronger for longer.
This is not a race. Check your ego at the door or get crushed by the bar, sooner or later.
[quote]BombDonald wrote:
Only have ran 5/3/1 for like 2 cycles with my deadlift, but I didn’t think the 5’s week was too bad.
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
In terms of raw strength what is the benefit of the 5 week? Has anybody experimented with eliminating the 5 and maybe working a 3, 2, 1 setup instead of 5 ,3,1??[/quote]
I don’t think you have any idea what 5/3/1 is.[/quote]
First off if you dont have anything positive to say keep your mouth shut. I have used 531 for over a year to take my deadlift to nearl 600lbs. my reasoning for dropping the 5’s is that most strength programs especially westside deal predominately with singles and triples on their max effort lifts, and doing 5 reps with 85 percent of 600lbs is a bit daunting.
^^^ Assuming you are starting a new cycle, and 600 was your max, your 5’s day would be done with about 75% of 600, not 85%, and you would be getting more than 5 reps. If you are not starting a new cycle, then your training max isn’t really tied to your actual max at all, it just goes up 10 pounds every month. It sounds like you have had great results with your program, but I suspect that program isn’t actually Wendler’s 5-3-1.
[quote]BombDonald wrote:
Only have ran 5/3/1 for like 2 cycles with my deadlift, but I didn’t think the 5’s week was too bad.
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
In terms of raw strength what is the benefit of the 5 week? Has anybody experimented with eliminating the 5 and maybe working a 3, 2, 1 setup instead of 5 ,3,1??[/quote]
I don’t think you have any idea what 5/3/1 is.[/quote]
First off if you dont have anything positive to say keep your mouth shut. I have used 531 for over a year to take my deadlift to nearl 600lbs. my reasoning for dropping the 5’s is that most strength programs especially westside deal predominately with singles and triples on their max effort lifts, and doing 5 reps with 85 percent of 600lbs is a bit daunting.[/quote]
You have to realize that westside and 5/3/1 are completely different methodologies.
Westside being a conjugate system with maximal effort (1-3 reps) and dynamic effort days
5/3/1 being a submaximal program (higher rep work that gets progressively heavier over time)
Both work, but trying to combine them will most likely not.
to answer OP, yes I always find the 5/5/X week the hardest… mainly just the Mondays though, which is when I do my squats. Bench, Press and Dead are fine.
[quote]BombDonald wrote:
Only have ran 5/3/1 for like 2 cycles with my deadlift, but I didn’t think the 5’s week was too bad.
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
In terms of raw strength what is the benefit of the 5 week? Has anybody experimented with eliminating the 5 and maybe working a 3, 2, 1 setup instead of 5 ,3,1??[/quote]
I don’t think you have any idea what 5/3/1 is.[/quote]
First off if you dont have anything positive to say keep your mouth shut. I have used 531 for over a year to take my deadlift to nearl 600lbs. my reasoning for dropping the 5’s is that most strength programs especially westside deal predominately with singles and triples on their max effort lifts, and doing 5 reps with 85 percent of 600lbs is a bit daunting.[/quote]
His mouth was shut, he used his fingers to type his response. Sensitive much? lol
Wendler has said that an alternate setup is to do 3/5/1
Week 1: 3’s week as normal
Week 2: 3x3 or 3x5 w 85% of your adjusted max, stop at the prescribed reps
Week 3: 5/3/1 week as normal
Week 4: deload as normal
Basically alternates hard weeks w backoff weeks, and lets you focus on the higher intensity weeks
