400M

Training Powerlifting
21

I actually just got back from running some 400s. I’ve been doing CT’s running man now and then, and I’m glad that I’m not the only one who finds going all out with those rest intervals impossible. The one time I did try going all out, I had to lay down on a bench for 5 minutes after my 3rd lap until my legs stopped quivering.

I’m a fighter, so I try to incorporate sprint work twice a week or so, in addition to one or two mid-distance run, but lately I’ve switched more to tempo running than sprint work. I find that if I sprint in the morning, it’s hard to train very effectively that night, or even the next day at times. Tempo work still does wonders for my wind, without totally wearing me out.

For conditioning, now that the weather’s getting nice in New England, I think I’m also going to try to do some strongman medlies, my gym has tires, chains, sleds, medecine balls, sledgehammers, and the like, so I should be able to put together some pretty interesting medlies.

22

The reason doing 3 or 4 x400m will not greatly benefit is because it does not simulate the race pace or demands of the race. I guess it would fall into the more strength or overdisstance endruance type of work, like the 500m stuff you mentioned which is sufficient in terms of overdistance. But as you said if your motive is to lose fat, and not improve over the distance then I wouldnt worry about it :slight_smile:

The reason I say (and I beleive any person who has ever run the 400 or the 4 hurdles would agree) about being in shape for those events is much more then just being in shape is because well for one the 400m is the epitome you could say of the anaerobic threshold. And second it trains your body to tolerate extreme amounts of lactic acid while still exterting a great amound of force. Any training related to 400m work I think will have conditioning benefits for any anaerobic sport.

23

I beleive you have chosen a good distancee for your goals to lose fat. Just keep at it and the results should come!

For improving speed however I would recommend doing some faster work over a shorter distance with longer recovery inbetween. For example

3x40m @75% full recovery
2x60m @90% full recovery
2x80m@ 95% full recovery

Before doing speedwork please make sure you are warmed up properly this is where tearing/pulling muscles happens! If you are already doing so then nothing to worry about :slight_smile:

I stil beleive though that you should do a little bit of a different workout to achieve the same effect as the 4x400m over and over.
Try these they would have a similar effect.

8-10x200m 1min rest between, @65%

This one might be a little easier
150-250-350-250-150, @ 75% walk what you ran for recovery

500-400-300-200-100 @75%, walk what you ran for recovery

Those will have give you a similar stimulus but will also help keep things a little more interesting as they are different workouts!

-Hope this helps!

24

Ali Baba,

Good stuff! Thanks for posting.

25

[quote]Ali Baba wrote:
The reason doing 3 or 4 x400m will not greatly benefit is because it does not simulate the race pace or demands of the race. I guess it would fall into the more strength or overdisstance endruance type of work, like the 500m stuff you mentioned which is sufficient in terms of overdistance. But as you said if your motive is to lose fat, and not improve over the distance then I wouldnt worry about it :slight_smile:

The reason I say (and I beleive any person who has ever run the 400 or the 4 hurdles would agree) about being in shape for those events is much more then just being in shape is because well for one the 400m is the epitome you could say of the anaerobic threshold. And second it trains your body to tolerate extreme amounts of lactic acid while still exterting a great amound of force. Any training related to 400m work I think will have conditioning benefits for any anaerobic sport. [/quote]

What do you mean by simulating the race pace?

If by running 400m’s, which will benefit fat loss more than improving one’s time, how does a 400m train to improve his time? Is that the 2150m, 2250m, 2350, 2450 type of practice? Just curious because improving my time is a goal, just not the priority goal. Maybe once I achieve my first rate goals of fat loss and conditioning I’ll try and drop my times.

I was always a great 200m runner (it was so simple compared to the 400m).

Forgive my ignorance and thanks for the input so far.

26

[quote]Ali Baba wrote:
I beleive you have chosen a good distancee for your goals to lose fat. Just keep at it and the results should come!

For improving speed however I would recommend doing some faster work over a shorter distance with longer recovery inbetween. For example

3x40m @75% full recovery
2x60m @90% full recovery
2x80m@ 95% full recovery

Before doing speedwork please make sure you are warmed up properly this is where tearing/pulling muscles happens! If you are already doing so then nothing to worry about :slight_smile:

I stil beleive though that you should do a little bit of a different workout to achieve the same effect as the 4x400m over and over.
Try these they would have a similar effect.

8-10x200m 1min rest between, @65%

This one might be a little easier
150-250-350-250-150, @ 75% walk what you ran for recovery

500-400-300-200-100 @75%, walk what you ran for recovery

Those will have give you a similar stimulus but will also help keep things a little more interesting as they are different workouts!

-Hope this helps![/quote]

Yes, it is helping me.

27

Remember that the 400m is still a sprint. You need a good base of speed to back up what you will be running. A faster 200m in your arsenal is going to help your 400m… The reason is, if you can run 22.50 for example, going out the first 200 in a 400 race at 24.xx isn’t going to feel like much, opposed to a sprinter with a PB of 23.9… A 24.1 is almost 100%, so going out that fast would be overkill for a sprinter with the slower 200. See what I mean? Training for the 400m is almost like training for the 100m. Speed is priority first. In a GPP phase though is when you see the longer stuff being used with the shorter recoveries at a less than max effort (75-80%)… Hills are a great stimulus to be used in sprint training as well.

I am a 400m runner myself, with a PB of 51.60 (open 400) and a 50.2 split on the 4x400m relay. I have learned that the biggest thing in sprint training is quality is always best over quantity.

28

By simulating race pace, I mean by running at a pace similar to the same effort you would be running at while competing. And also stressing your body to produce the same levels of lactic acid, and overall CNS (central nervous system stress) as you would in the race.

Being a good 200m is necessary to being a good 400m runner,So if that’s the case you are already half way there.
This is because you can anly come through the first 200m so close to your top 200m speed, henceforth the faster your 200m the faster start you can have to your 400m. Then it is up to your ability to maintain. Both of which are GREATLY determined by genetics! But that is NOT to say that you cannot improve through training.

Hope this helps

29

[quote]WRCortese5 wrote:
Remember that the 400m is still a sprint. You need a good base of speed to back up what you will be running. A faster 200m in your arsenal is going to help your 400m… The reason is, if you can run 22.50 for example, going out the first 200 in a 400 race at 24.xx isn’t going to feel like much, opposed to a sprinter with a PB of 23.9… A 24.1 is almost 100%, so going out that fast would be overkill for a sprinter with the slower 200. See what I mean? Training for the 400m is almost like training for the 100m. Speed is priority first. In a GPP phase though is when you see the longer stuff being used with the shorter recoveries at a less than max effort (75-80%)… Hills are a great stimulus to be used in sprint training as well.
[/quote]

Excellent Point

30

i’ve got a question for you guys:

is it possible to work on 400m and get faster in short distances At the same time without compromising the other?

I ask this because i think that the 400m is one of thebest ways to get cardiovascularly conditioned, which is what i’m aiming for since i play soccer. But ofcourse i also need to increase max-speed.

so say i do one 400m training session/week, one max-speed straiing session/week (ie 40-60 yard reps) and do plyos weights aswell… would this be effective?

31

[quote]Kir Dog wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
I wasn’t doing the above-mentioned routine to improve my time over the specific distance but rather to lose fat/keep fat gain in check and increase my conditioning.

As for my times, I don’t think they are very significant as my “track” actually was an avenue, albeit little frequented, with a speed bump, crossings, etc. and I didn’t bother to pace off the distance very accurately. That being said, I usually ran the reps in 70-75s.

Anyway, adhering to these parameters every session left me burnt out rather quickly, so I soon switched to one session of 3x400m, one of 10x100m and then some interval running over a somewhat longer distance for the third.

I understand your goal, to burn fat and improve conditioning.

I have a question regarding your last paragraph. You talk about the 3 sessions, the 3400, the 10100m and something different for the third. Was this one full weeks worth of workouts? I was confused as to that.[/quote]

Yes, I usually do the first session on Monday, the second on Wednesday and the third on Friday, while doing strength training on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and maybe Sunday.

32

[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
i’ve got a question for you guys:

is it possible to work on 400m and get faster in short distances At the same time without compromising the other?

I ask this because i think that the 400m is one of thebest ways to get cardiovascularly conditioned, which is what i’m aiming for since i play soccer. But ofcourse i also need to increase max-speed.

so say i do one 400m training session/week, one max-speed straiing session/week (ie 40-60 yard reps) and do plyos weights aswell… would this be effective?[/quote]

Yes!!! that would suffice, however you should keep in mind that all those are fairly high intensity workouts outs.

Think of a high-low intensity set up. Only because those workouts can be quite taxing on your CNS. And proper recovery is imperative to avoid injuries.

Lower intensity work that would Adequately imrpove cardio vascular fitness would be something as follows:

12x200m-1 mins rest intween, Each run should be in about 32-36 seconds depending on your level of coniditioning

OR

200-400-600-400-200 @ that presribed pace of 32-36 seconds over each 200m segment. Walk the same distance you ran for recovery.
The preceding could be implemented on days in between your short sprint work or plyo days assuming your template is something like
monday-400 stuff
tuesday-off
wednesday-that tempo stuff i mentioned
thursday-off
friday-speedwork

Basicaly dont make EVERYTIME you run super high intensity. Your muscles and CNS need time to recover and transitioned back into high performance levels. Did that make any sense???

That should give you the idea of lower intensity stuff. Generally you want to follow up a high intensity day with some form of active recovery like a light sweat-up sorta thing, I guess you could say light easy jog, easy cardio. Just to flush out some lactic acid, and get you ready to go next time. This concept is not just for track, I think its a good idea to use active recovery in all forms of training especially for anaerobic sports because of the stresses involved on the CNS.

33

I actually would think that training the 400m wouldn’t be that helpful for soccer. How often in soccer are you going at close to maximal efforts for long periods of time? I would say maybe 30-50 yards of running down a ball, followed by a few seconds of quick activity, then the ball is cleared or there is a stoppage of play.

I agree about the high-low thing though. Train for speed (like 30-100m’s) on you high-intensity days and let tempo on your low-days improve your work capacity.

34

I totally agree with Ali Baba about being in shape and being in race shape. The workouts he gave would be brutal, I’ve done similar things, though my race distance was a bit longer than the quarter.

The only thing I have to add is that to even do high level sprint workouts, as close to %max time as prescribed, you need to be in some serious shape.

I’m doing a lower intensity volume type workout once a week 400m run, 200 walk/jog, for as many as I can, and then a faster type workout, either 200’s, or a step down later in the week. Right now my faster one has pretty short rest periods too.

If you’re primary goal is fat loss, I would keep the rest periods short. If you are out of race shape, I would do the same thing until you get your conditioning really high.

35

I also play soccer. I have 2-3 medhigh - high intensity soccer workouts each week along with one match and 3 school sport days at med intensity. Woud it be wise to set in a 400 m conditioning day or woud that be total kill on my nervous system ?

A add is that I also have 5-10 realy low intensity cardio days / week, 1.5 km to 2.5 km .

36

You’re probably already doing enough with the soccer workouts and the low intensity stuff. Adding in the extra 400m day probably would be a bit too much. If you really feel the need, by all means go ahead, but I think it would be a hard on the nervous system; especially when you’re trying to account in your recovery between sessions.

37

I agree on that but I definatley need the 400 M training. I dont know what I shoud skip since I have to do most of the stuff.I?ll probably change the walk stuff to cycle stuff now since it?s finaly spring in sweden. so that woud leave 3 super low intensity stuff. and then not choose one extra day sports at school.

Thank you for your opinion

38

To improve your 400m time you’d be better off doing speed work at shorter distances 50-200m @ 95% x 2-5 reps x 1-2/week, doing tempo work 100m-400m @ 65-75% x 10-20 reps x 3/week, and some special endurance runs 200-500m @ 95% x 1-2 reps x 1/week. Not all done on the same day. This develops speed, lactic acid clearance, and race pace.

39

Bri~

Very well put in 4 or 5 lines.

Simply put, if you are trying to alter your physique, and see how much lactic acid your body can tolerate, do CT’s running man guide. No, you will not be sprinting, but that isn’t the point.

You are trying to cause as much metabolic disruption as possible in as short a time as possible… much like the Tabata method, etc. Huge alteration in physique quickly, and consistency of your bowel movement immediately following the workout… especially if you drink soda at all and have high blood acidity already… mmmmm.

For soccer you should probably only be doing 1 day of jogging, if at all.

I am currently consulting with a Big East soccer program, and we are doing 2-3 Sprint / Plyo days (or WUSA Practice) with intensive Tempo Work afterwards. Then the other three days are easier, extensive Tempo days. We define intensive as shorter time runs with many cuts. Our extensive work gives their joints a break and is more of a stride/GPP / Easy Skill workout. Volume climbs for three weeks, and then there is a sharp drop for a recovery week, then the next 4 week cycle, volume is slightly increased.

Simple enough.

If your goal is to run the 400, then get to be faster. The special endurance is never the issue, that is simple enough to develop. The question is what is your max speed in the first place, before Lactic Acid starts to shut you down. I assume if you were a 52 400m runner in HS, then you were about an 11.4-11.8 100m runner(fat)…maybe slower.

That time in the 100m is good for a miler…

: )

Get faster, then work in speed endurance.

I believe when Alicia Felix ran her 200m time, then came back and ran a top 400m time, she had never run a 400m or higher in practice to that date (for the year)… she just got fast, and carried it to the end… she ran 100’s, 150’s, 200’s 250’s, 300’s.

I may be off there, but I belive that is what Barry Ross described for her…

Speed…

J

40

jumanji:

So you do intensive tempo after speed?? isn’t that a bit overkill?
What kind of intensive tempo is it in terms of reps sets, rests etc?

Also the tabata thing isn’t that were you run as fast as possible for 20 secs rest 10 secs then repeat like 8 times?? is that god for a soccer player?

Currenlty i do:
Sprints/weights on mon
Tues- extensive tempo: 2 sets of 8x200 m at 75% with 45 secs between reps and 1 min between sets
Wed-off
Thurs-weights/plyos - and then i wqas thinking of adding some type of intesive cardio (tabata?) here
fri- tempo
sat-agilty, low volume sprints, skill work

what do you think (this is for soccer pre-season by the way)