Impressive either way, who gives a shit about the depth on this one. He’s not a powerlifter or a strongman. Totally reminded me of the Platz vid.
Medicine ball guys cracked me up. Probabaly did their curls in that squat rack when he was done!!!
Unbelievable. I give up.
Here is a video of Rhadi in competition.
intocombat.com/video_detail.php?VideoID=1
Maybe he needs to try squatting a little deeper?
[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
20 rep squats if done properly should not take any longer than about :60 to :80 seconds. While that’s longer than the typical power lifting or body building set it’s not anywhere in the area where you need exceptional cardio.
The time limit above is indicative of using the “anaerobic” system far more than the “aerobic” system.
Here is an interesting site which speaks to that issue.
www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/enduranc.htm
Bottom line, I don’t think that someone who trains regularly would be limited by his cardio capacity to achieve a 20 rep squat with a respectable weight.
He might be limited by other things such as desire or strength.
I would agree with you if the participant had a great deal of body fat. We have no idea of the body fat of the guy on the video, we can only guess.
Otherwise I think that any person who regularly trains hard with heavy weights, has a body weight of 210 to 230 pounds and a body fat of say under 12% could squat 315 for 20 reps. Some would have a harder time than others depending on how they train etc. And of course you have to have the desire to do it.
In fact, relatively speaking, the lighter lifter may have the advantage at reps that high.
But the typical 160lb man could not squat 315 eaiser than a 230lb man. And that is my original point.
Relative strength is not as important as sheer body weight when adding pounds to the bar. That’s the reason that big people move more weight than little people.
I agree with you here. Muscle fiber plays a significant factor in all of this.
[/quote]
Dude, with all respect, you’re all wrong here. I’ll try to address your points:
- A true 20 rep squat will take more than 60 seconds. The 20 rep protocol calls for 3 deep breaths between EACH rep. That puts total time under tension somewhere north of 90 seconds. Regardless of what energy system it uses…I ASSURE you its aerobically taxing. If you don’t believe me, pick up a challenging weight and do 20 reps and then let’s talk. If you’re not gassed, I assure you that you didn’t move enough weight.
It’s a point not worthy of debate; it quite simply DOES take cardio. Heck, I even think Dave Tate remarked once he’d fall over and die if he did 20 reps and then made the comment why would he want to? Why he’d want to aside, its not even worthy of debate - its very taxing to the cardio system.
- You say “Otherwise I think that any person who regularly trains hard with heavy weights, has a body weight of 210 to 230 pounds and a body fat of say under 12% could squat 315 for 20 reps. Some would have a harder time than others depending on how they train etc. And of course you have to have the desire to do it.”
…That’s just wrong. Period end of story. And it completely ignores where you agree that fiber type if important. I’ve hit close to 700 in competition and I ASSURE you that I find 315 for 20 challenging and I think most whom have done it concur. And I’m talking legal squats. And I know plenty of guys and many different gyms that fit the description you just gave and I GUARANFUCKINTEE you they cannot squat 315 for 20. I know (we all do) some large mo fos that squat 315 for 10…for sets whatever…but will never see 20.
Do it first, then talk to me. Or have the guy you know who can get 10 do it for 20 legit reps and then come debate it. You WILL NOT find many.
- You say…“But the typical 160lb man could not squat 315 eaiser than a 230lb man. And that is my original point. Relative strength is not as important as sheer body weight when adding pounds to the bar. That’s the reason that big people move more weight than little people.”.
YOu’re completely missing the point. My point was about relative strength - no more no less. Sheer bwt. is great for moving a max rep. I’m not so sure its ideal for high reps. That is my point. I think it could certainly be a disadvantage regardless of BF levels. Who care if its lean or fat weight, you’re still moving it?
And I wasn’t speaking to the issue of a 165lb man moving 315…I was speaking to the issue of the 165lb man moving maybe 210 (a relative same weight for 20 as say the 250lb man does 315 for 20.) I’m comparing apples to applies…relative weight…not same weight. Little guy, in my opinion, has an advantage for high rep squats.
Seriously now, and this is not an attack or flame; but have you done 20 rep squats? And I’m not talking the kind you just witnessed on that video. I’m talking full squats, 3 big breaths in between reps.
(Compare it to the guys in the background playing with the medicine ball). If the majority of new trainees devoted the time and effort to get to a point where they could do that, there would be a lot more big and strong guys walking around. [/quote]
If you checked out the rest of the site you would have seen that the guy squatting, Rhadi Ferguson, uses all those med ball drills. The guys in the background were doing nothing that Rhadi himself would not do.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Dude, with all respect, you’re all wrong here. I’ll try to address your points:
- A true 20 rep squat will take more than 60 seconds. The 20 rep protocol calls for 3 deep breaths between EACH rep. That puts total time under tension somewhere north of 90 seconds. Regardless of what energy system it uses…I ASSURE you its aerobically taxing. If you don’t believe me, pick up a challenging weight and do 20 reps and then let’s talk. If you’re not gassed, I assure you that you didn’t move enough weight. [/quote]
Keep my original point in mind as you move along.
First of all the guy in the video took under :45 to complete his 20 reps! Granted he did lousy reps, but even if he did good reps he would not have taken over :70 or :80 maximum.
I understand the breathing 20 rep squat system which has been around for ages. However, I was not addressing that and obviously our man in the video clip was not doing that either.
Yes, it’s taxing no question. But what I’m saying is that someone who trains hard and regularly (not powerlifting style ala Dave Tate) can perform them. In other words it’s not like running a 5:00 mile. It can be done and is done by those who want to do it. You have done it yourself, but you can’t do a strictly cardio workout like run a 5:00 mile.
See the difference?
One is challenging yet doable for most who have trained hard and properly. The other (5:00 mile) pretty much out of the question for most. The Mile being a strictly cardio event the 20 rep squat not being one.
[quote]2. You say “Otherwise I think that any person who regularly trains hard with heavy weights, has a body weight of 210 to 230 pounds and a body fat of say under 12% could squat 315 for 20 reps. Some would have a harder time than others depending on how they train etc. And of course you have to have the desire to do it.”
…That’s just wrong. Period end of story. And it completely ignores where you agree that fiber type if important.[/quote]
Having the right fiber type just makes it easier (more slow twitch). But, I’m still correct, I’ve seen it over and over again. Someone who trains hard and properly who weighs 210 to 230 would be able to squat 315 for 20 IF they had the desire to do so.
I’m not talking about training just in the low rep range and then one day hitting one set for 20. Obviously, the guy would have to be training properly. That doesn’t mean doing 20 rep squats all the time either. It just means training in different rep ranges, high and low over a long period of time. And remember they have to have the DESIRE to do it.
Can anyone who weighs 230 walk into a gym and hit a 20 rep squat with 315? NO WAY. It’s hard, but not that remarkable.
You are obviously a powerlifter and I wouldn’t expect it to be easy for you. BUT you can do it. And while it’s not EASY for most it can be done by those who I have described.
Oh and I GUARANFUCKINTEE you too. lol
I’ve hit 315 for 20. And I can’t squat 700 pounds. So obviously fiber type does play into it. But to what degree? I weigh 215 to 219.
Most people when they work their legs don’t work up to their maximum because it effects their heart and lungs, so you won’t see it. But they are very capable IF they have the DESIRE to do it.
But my original point is that his 315 squat for 20 is not that remarkable BECAUSE of his bodyweight. You brought up “relative strength” not me.
You don’t really mean that do you? You think that body fat is unimportant? Don’t you think that someone who weighs 220 pounds with a body fat % of 10% is going to to have it a bit easier than someone who weighs 220 pounds with a body fat % of 35% when it comes to 20 rep squats?
Come on now be real!
Maybe maybe not. A guy with more muscle mass and less fat who trains hard and regularly in various rep ranges and who has the DESRIRE to get 20 has the advantage.
[quote]Seriously now, and this is not an attack or flame; but have you done 20 rep squats? And I’m not talking the kind you just witnessed on that video. I’m talking full squats, 3 big breaths in between reps.
[/quote]
As I stated above I have done 20 at 315 a few times. They were not breathing squats, but they were clean. And on top of that I have witnessed others who have done 20 rep squats clean.
Again if you weigh 220 to 230 like the guy in the video looks like he does, 20 reps at 315 especially the way the guy in the video did them is not that remarkable.
And again if you don’t think that body weight, more muscle mass and less body fat has something to do with it you are just wrong!
After watching Tom Platz DEEP squatting 500 for 20+ reps, this vid does not look very insane.
Impressive yes, not insane.
i thought the vid was ok poor depth not very impresive but ok.
if he had of done them all deep for 20 that would be very impressive.
lets see if i know how to post a vid
[quote]Spartan300 wrote:
(Compare it to the guys in the background playing with the medicine ball). If the majority of new trainees devoted the time and effort to get to a point where they could do that, there would be a lot more big and strong guys walking around.
If you checked out the rest of the site you would have seen that the guy squatting, Rhadi Ferguson, uses all those med ball drills. The guys in the background were doing nothing that Rhadi himself would not do. [/quote]
The comparison I was making, was between the level of intensity the man is putting into the squats, relative to the guys with the medicine ball. It was not intended as a disparaging comment about medicine ball drills or their value in a well planned routine. I believe many people get caught up in the minutia of bodybuilding information instead of applying hard work on a few basic exercises.
I made a crack at the guy with the medicine ball, but every now and then I also use them for overhead throws.
It’s not if you do it, it’s how. It was like watching night and day between the squats and the medicine ball guys. They were pathetic.
[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
I read a few of the comments on here about the guy not going to, or below parallel and that’s true.
Personally, I don’t think a guy his size, looks to be well over 200lbs. squatting 315 for 20 is a big deal, even if his form was good which it wasn’t.
Let’s move on.[/quote]
Agree…
however, doing 20s to the failure, one CAN NOT expect “good form” PERIOD!
[quote]MachineAZ wrote:
The 315 for 20 is the most impressive b/c his depth is closest to parallel. And 20 rep sets kill you. I think I could hit 275 for 20 and then would want to lie down for 10 mins.
The 405 reps were okay, just pretty far from parallel. The 500 reps were 1/2 squats.
I’ve actually noticed it is harder for me to parallel squat than full squat now that I’m used to full squat.[/quote]
my thoughts exactly, especially about the half squats being harder than full squats(form me), if i tried to half squat 500 i would tear a quad. but i can full squat close to 600(belt only)
there is a video onthe net somewhere of jesse marunde, and top level strongman competitor, doing DEEP ATG RAW squats 405x20. thats AFTER working up to 365 in the powerclean.
two guys i went to highscool with, john ford and kevin turner, did 405 x20 with belt to paralell, but not below. both of them played football at the univeristy of alabama, and kevin played some pro ball with the eagles and the patriots.
i agree with bodyguard, i have hit close to 700 in full gear off a box in the squat, and i cant get more than 10 reps with 315, and after that i would puke and want to die. it depends on how yhou have conditioned yourself.
i am not trying to diminish his acheivements, he is obvioulsy a world class athlete and very strong, just wanted to give some perspective.