300 the Movie - Spartan Training

Off Topic
41

[quote]PGJ wrote:
new2training wrote:
This is VERY unsubstantiated but after a quick search I saw several references to Spartan size.

Seems that some arceological digs found armour that would put them at about 5’10" and between 180 and 200lbs.

Regardless of size, they were bad mofo’s

These guys were groomed from birth to be athletes and warriors. It makes sense that they were unique in their size. At birth, undersized or sickly babies were discarded and left to die. At age 7 they began their military training to include lots of strenuous exercise (even the women exercised regularly). At age 20 they entered the army until they were in their 60’s. I’d say they were a little bigger and tougher than the skinny kids off the farms that fought in the Civil War.

[/quote]

Thanks for the background on the Spartans. Its not a subject I know much about.

I agree, given that their pedigree and training, I imagine they were much bigger, faster, stronger, tougher than many other “soldiers” throughout history.

42

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
new2training wrote:
I’m not trying to pose as some kind of military historian but I’m legitimately curious to know if any of these actual warriors/soldies from ancient times actually looked jacked?

Woah dude, shut your face.

Spartan LAW required that every spartan man eat at LEAST TWO pounds of meat a day, to keep his COURAGE up.
Spartan soldiers also ate a soup that was made with the blood of a swine.

I guess eating lots of meat must not be conductive to muscle, who knew?[/quote]

lol
Damn Barney, a little on edge today?

I’m not up to date on my Spartan Law.

You’re right, I’m sure they all looked like they stepped right off the Mr. Universe Stage. Ronnie Coleman with a shield and spear.

2 pounds of meat or not there’s no way the Spartan’s were THAT big.

Creatine supplements weren’t even around yet

TC, Anything coming down the Biotest pipeline with some “Blood of Swine”?

43

[quote]new2training wrote:
PGJ wrote:
new2training wrote:
This is VERY unsubstantiated but after a quick search I saw several references to Spartan size.

Seems that some arceological digs found armour that would put them at about 5’10" and between 180 and 200lbs.

Regardless of size, they were bad mofo’s

These guys were groomed from birth to be athletes and warriors. It makes sense that they were unique in their size. At birth, undersized or sickly babies were discarded and left to die. At age 7 they began their military training to include lots of strenuous exercise (even the women exercised regularly). At age 20 they entered the army until they were in their 60’s. I’d say they were a little bigger and tougher than the skinny kids off the farms that fought in the Civil War.

Thanks for the background on the Spartans. Its not a subject I know much about.

I agree, given that their pedigree and training, I imagine they were much bigger, faster, stronger, tougher than many other “soldiers” throughout history.

[/quote]

They were so elite that their numbers decreased every year. I’d say they were the best trained, most capable armed force in world history. With equal equipment, they’d destroy anything in history. They were a fascinating culture.

44

[quote]new2training wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
new2training wrote:
I’m not trying to pose as some kind of military historian but I’m legitimately curious to know if any of these actual warriors/soldies from ancient times actually looked jacked?

Woah dude, shut your face.

Spartan LAW required that every spartan man eat at LEAST TWO pounds of meat a day, to keep his COURAGE up.
Spartan soldiers also ate a soup that was made with the blood of a swine.

I guess eating lots of meat must not be conductive to muscle, who knew?

lol
Damn Barney, a little on edge today?

I’m not up to date on my Spartan Law.

You’re right, I’m sure they all looked like they stepped right off the Mr. Universe Stage. Ronnie Coleman with a shield and spear.

2 pounds of meat or not there’s no way the Spartan’s were THAT big.

Creatine supplements weren’t even around yet

TC, Anything coming down the Biotest pipeline with some “Blood of Swine”?
[/quote]

I think when your entire life and culture has been devoted to athletic and warrior training (wrestling, running, lifting, fighting, hiking, boxing…), I bet they were easily able to get pretty big. Probably not Ronnie big, but Brad Pitt big for sure (ha, ha, had to throw that in). Look at the Greek statues, they were some muscular dudes.

By the way, if you are eating 2lbs of meat every day, you will have no need for creatine, or any other supplementation.

But I can see it coming. No more “How do I get big like like Brad Pitt in Fight Club” questions. It will be “Dude, I want to look like King Leonidas. He’s riped”. This will surely be the new “Fight Club” movie.

45

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

I think I am going to be massively disappointed. I would rather watch a movie based on Gates of Fire than the crap he is describing.

The target audience looks like it is 12 year old boys but in real life it was the older Spartans that already had children that made the stand.

Sounds like they dropped all the important things out of the story to make it look like a video game.

I hope I am wrong.[/quote]

The review was made to be cheesy, of course. I agree that a movie based on Gates of Fire would be awesome, but I think they’ve done a good job of NOT referencing the historical aspect of the fight at all so those people don’t come in expecting “A Bridge Too Far”. It’s based on the comic book, and if you don’t like comic book movies such as Sin City you probably won’t like this one. It’s made to be exaggerated and spun like a tall tale, as Spartans would retell the story to other young Spartans. If you’ve ever been around a group of soldiers telling old war stories it isn’t exactly like Cornelius Ryan. This is more up the alley of Conan the Barbarian and 13th Warrior than anything historical.

46

PGJ,

What you’re saying makes a lot of sense about the Spartans. I appreciate you educating me. Looks like something I’d like to read more about.

I was just messing with Barney a little with the Ronnie Coleman statement and being completely sarcastic with the Creatine remark.

I don’t doubt that there were some big and strong sum’ bitches in the ancient world.

But I’ll bet in general, people were smaller than they are now, soldiers included. Especially when on foreign campaigns.

Of course, I reserve the right to be wrong. :wink:

From what you and Barney have told me about the Spartans they stood out from some of their other warrior brethren from other eras.

Anyway, I wasn’t trying to stir up any controversy, just a discussion.

By the way, I think I remember from other threads that you are a serviceman.

If so, I sincerely Thank You for your service.

47

I’ve studied Greek history and can’t wait for this film.

It has taken liberties, as some have said it’s more of a ‘campfire tale’ version. Kind of how the Spartan’s would have liked the tale to be told in rival provinces, they built a kind of myth about their armies.

Everyone should be made to read the novel ‘Gates of Fire’ though for a more historically accurate account.

I would go as far as saying that they were the greatest warriors in relation of the times they lived in ever.

48

I also recommend “Gates of Fire”. Excellant book the type that sucks you in and you dont want to put down. One of the cool things about the book is it had me referancing the encyclopedia for alot of new words.

Also one of the things I likes alot about the culture was that the woman where exspected to be in great shape and where not looked down up as an inferior sex.

49

[quote]new2training wrote:
PGJ,

What you’re saying makes a lot of sense about the Spartans. I appreciate you educating me. Looks like something I’d like to read more about.

I was just messing with Barney a little with the Ronnie Coleman statement and being completely sarcastic with the Creatine remark.

I don’t doubt that there were some big and strong sum’ bitches in the ancient world.

But I’ll bet in general, people were smaller than they are now, soldiers included. Especially when on foreign campaigns.

Of course, I reserve the right to be wrong. :wink:

From what you and Barney have told me about the Spartans they stood out from some of their other warrior brethren from other eras.

Anyway, I wasn’t trying to stir up any controversy, just a discussion.

By the way, I think I remember from other threads that you are a serviceman.

If so, I sincerely Thank You for your service.

[/quote]

No problem. I didn’t think you were trying to stir anything up. I didn’t know a whole lot about the Spartans until I saw the trailer for this movie and did a quick Wikipedia search. Bad mo’fo’s.

On a different note, I think ancient man was WAAAYYYY stronger than modern man.

50

[quote]caladin wrote:
Also one of the things I likes alot about the culture was that the woman where exspected to be in great shape and where not looked down up as an inferior sex.[/quote]

Yeah, the women were trained as well if not better then most men in other provinces.

And the men were trained like super heroes.

I love the reference in ‘Gates of Fire’ to a particular punishment when traing the boys.

They were made to ‘f*ck’ or ‘grind’ a tree like an oak for hours on end as a punishment to build pain tolerence and endurance.

The boys would stand in a line, the front boy with his shield against the tree, the boy behind with his shield pushed into the small of the first boys back, etc, etc.

They were then forced to try to push over the tree, and when the boy in front couldn’t stop throwing up or had lost control of his bladder and/or bowles, etc. he then moved to the back of the line and the punishment continued.

It would go for an entire afternoon, or until no one was able to continue…

Brutal…

51

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
This might surpass Gladiator as my all-time favorite movie, and thats a big statement for me as I am full blooded Roman. Kick ass training sequence.[/quote]

I hope you are right, but let’s not get our hopes up too much. I’m still pumped to see it though.

52

[quote]caladin wrote:
Also one of the things I likes alot about the culture was that the woman where exspected to be in great shape and where not looked down up as an inferior sex.[/quote]

It’s been written that Athenian women were apalled at the musclar development of Spatan women, who were particularly proud of their rippling glutes…The original T-Vixens it appears.

Also, other Greeks critisized the Spatans for being “too reserved” in use of their troops (not unlike VN war era Generals complaining about “arrogant” special forces “elites” who they woefully misused in that war)…

53

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Woah dude, shut your face.

Spartan LAW required that every spartan man eat at LEAST TWO pounds of meat a day, to keep his COURAGE up.
Spartan soldiers also ate a soup that was made with the blood of a swine.

I guess eating lots of meat must not be conductive to muscle, who knew?[/quote]

Barn, you either mean fish or seafood by “meat” or you’re referring to a VERY small subset of Spartans.

There’s no possible that every male Spartan citizen was required to eat two pounds of “meat” per day. How do I know this?

Where would they get the meat?

Greece is very arid and hilly. Because of this, the Greeks weren’t heavy on agriculture, and because they weren’t heavy on agriculture, they didn’t have a lot of grains. Athens in particular had to import her grain because she couldn’t grow it herself.

So without a lot of grains, what would they feed to their livestock?

The Greeks barely had enough grain to go around for their people; they couldn’t spare much at all for their animals.

In Greek culture in general, the eating of meat was very rare. It was definately a special occasion, and most Greeks only ate meat during a sacrifice to the gods. They would eat the meat, and then burn the fat and the bones to the gods.

So again, unless you’re talking about seafood when you say “meat”, or you’re talking about an extremely small number of specific Spartans, they were NOT required to eat two pounds of meat per day. They couldn’t even if they wanted to.

54

I get it! So fanatics are OK if we are talking about Greeks, Spartans, Scottish, Americans…but very very bad if the guys are Arabs or Persians for instance… Ha! Ha!

Take it easy, actually I will enjoy that movie! Testosterone loaded!!!No doubt!

55

[quote]Franck wrote:
I get it! So fanatics are OK if we are talking about Greeks, Spartans, Scottish, Americans…but very very bad if the guys are Arabs or Persians for instance… Ha! Ha!

Take it easy, actually I will enjoy that movie! Testosterone loaded!!!No doubt![/quote]

Yeah, I see your point.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this movie comes out when the U.S. is getting shat on in Iraq, morale is at an all-time low, and they’re just about to jump into Iran too. Propaganda, no doubt.

Nonetheless, I’m totally pumped to see this movie, can’t wait.

56

[quote]Donut62 wrote:

The battle itself did happen and a great novel called Gates of Fire was written about it if you want a good read. The movie, however, is based off of Frank Miller’s graphic novel. The movie takes the angle of how the story would be told by some old Spartans talking around the campfire. Thus, the enemy seems dehumanized and mythical sentiments abound. It’s not supposed to be a History Channel reenactment, just a fucking badass legendary tale.

[/quote]

Yeah Gates of fire by Stevn Pressfield is my all time faovorite book, my dad got me interested in ancient history when I was very young and got it me. It has some of the training they made there kids endure, 8 year old kids being forced to run about 10 miles holding water in thier mouths and smash down full grown tree by ramming them with thier shields. If anyone is interested in the upcoming movie I highly recommend gates of fire

57

[quote]PGJ wrote:
new2training wrote:
PGJ,

No problem. I didn’t think you were trying to stir anything up. I didn’t know a whole lot about the Spartans until I saw the trailer for this movie and did a quick Wikipedia search. Bad mo’fo’s.

On a different note, I think ancient man was WAAAYYYY stronger than modern man.

[/quote]

I whole heartedly agree that on average, ancient man was probably much stronger physically than most modern men. Nearly every aspect of their lives involved physical exertion.

Also way tougher.

They had to endure many, many, many more physical hardships than most of us do today.

Peace

58

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
Woah dude, shut your face.

Spartan LAW required that every spartan man eat at LEAST TWO pounds of meat a day, to keep his COURAGE up.
Spartan soldiers also ate a soup that was made with the blood of a swine.

I guess eating lots of meat must not be conductive to muscle, who knew?

Barn, you either mean fish or seafood by “meat” or you’re referring to a VERY small subset of Spartans.

There’s no possible that every male Spartan citizen was required to eat two pounds of “meat” per day. How do I know this?

Where would they get the meat?

Greece is very arid and hilly. Because of this, the Greeks weren’t heavy on agriculture, and because they weren’t heavy on agriculture, they didn’t have a lot of grains. Athens in particular had to import her grain because she couldn’t grow it herself.

So without a lot of grains, what would they feed to their livestock?

The Greeks barely had enough grain to go around for their people; they couldn’t spare much at all for their animals.

In Greek culture in general, the eating of meat was very rare. It was definately a special occasion, and most Greeks only ate meat during a sacrifice to the gods. They would eat the meat, and then burn the fat and the bones to the gods.

So again, unless you’re talking about seafood when you say “meat”, or you’re talking about an extremely small number of specific Spartans, they were NOT required to eat two pounds of meat per day. They couldn’t even if they wanted to.[/quote]

This article talks about the soup that the spartans ate. It also talks about the consumption of pork, which is what I beleive they used for meat. I will do some more research and see if I can’t find the article about the two pounds of meat a day.

Sparta may have been a small enough city state to have been able for every man to eat two pounds of meat.

59

Someone mentioned they doubted that the Spartans wore speedos. The Spartans actually fought with their genitals exposed. True.

Also, someone mentioned that the Spartan phalanx was very effective during the Roman Empire. The Spartans were actually crushed by the Romans during the Republic. The Roman maniple proved to be far superior to the phalanx, due mainly to its maneuverability and the fact that it could be utilized for close quarter combat. By the time of the Empire, the phalanx had been (for the most part) phased out.

The Spartan diet did consist of a considerable amount of meat. This was mainly seafood with some pork, door mice (yep, you read that right) and various other things that we would definitely not mix in a protein shake today.

And as for the actual batte of Thermopylae, the 300 Spartans lead a force of 6000 Thebans, Illyrians, and Thespians (with some others thrown in). The Spartans did do a bulk of the fighting, and sent everyone except the Thebans home on the third day (the Thebans were actually considered “slaves and prisoners” of the Spartans and weren’t allowed to leave). The Thespians refused to go- they wanted to stay and fight. And so the Spartans dubbed them Spartans as well. When the fighting began, the Thebans surrendered without getting involved in the conflict.

And the Persians weren’t “Savages,” the way the trailer makes them look. They were the most civilized, cultured, and finest army in the world at the time. Which is way it’s so impressive that the Greeks handed them their ass.

All this being said, this movie looks like it will kick ass. The graphic novel is told from the POV of some Spartans telling this legendary story to one another, so the liberties are taken by the characters, so to speak.

Oh, and ancient man was definitely stronger and faster than modern man (even elite athletes). When you read about accounts of men like Milo of Kroton or some of the shit Mark Antony used to do… it’s amazing.

Sorry. Had to geek out on this topic. I’m a Classical Civilization major.

60

[quote]Fenris wrote:
Someone mentioned they doubted that the Spartans wore speedos. The Spartans actually fought with their genitals exposed. True.

Also, someone mentioned that the Spartan phalanx was very effective during the Roman Empire. The Spartans were actually crushed by the Romans during the Republic. The Roman maniple proved to be far superior to the phalanx, due mainly to its maneuverability and the fact that it could be utilized for close quarter combat. By the time of the Empire, the phalanx had been (for the most part) phased out.

The Spartan diet did consist of a considerable amount of meat. This was mainly seafood with some pork, door mice (yep, you read that right) and various other things that we would definitely not mix in a protein shake today.

And as for the actual batte of Thermopylae, the 300 Spartans lead a force of 6000 Thebans, Illyrians, and Thespians (with some others thrown in). The Spartans did do a bulk of the fighting, and sent everyone except the Thebans home on the third day (the Thebans were actually considered “slaves and prisoners” of the Spartans and weren’t allowed to leave). The Thespians refused to go- they wanted to stay and fight. And so the Spartans dubbed them Spartans as well. When the fighting began, the Thebans surrendered without getting involved in the conflict.

And the Persians weren’t “Savages,” the way the trailer makes them look. They were the most civilized, cultured, and finest army in the world at the time. Which is way it’s so impressive that the Greeks handed them their ass.

All this being said, this movie looks like it will kick ass. The graphic novel is told from the POV of some Spartans telling this legendary story to one another, so the liberties are taken by the characters, so to speak.

Oh, and ancient man was definitely stronger and faster than modern man (even elite athletes). When you read about accounts of men like Milo of Kroton or some of the shit Mark Antony used to do… it’s amazing.

Sorry. Had to geek out on this topic. I’m a Classical Civilization major.

[/quote]

If I understand things correctly, the romans began with the phlanax, and then changed because the phlanax couldn’t fight on uneven ground.